Posts by almosthome

21

JWs thoughts on Hell

by Oxnard Hamster in

the jws don't believe hell, as in the place where evil people are tortured for eternity, exists.

they reason that a loving god would not send his own creation to be tormented for eternity.. yet on the flipside, the jws preach that in 1914 (yeah, you all know this arguement.

) there was a big war in heaven, and satan and all his creatures were cast down to earth.

Gee the jw's don't believe in hell yet at the same time they are going on about how they will be saved while everyone outside the organisation will burn in the lake of fire. JW never teach anyone will burn in the lake of fire. Revelations says death and hell are hurled into the lake of fire, the second death. As in be destroyed. As in poof out of existence, yes...Certainly death cannot be literally burned.. and if lake of fire were hell...hell could not be pitched into it. But death can be done away with, and will, and when death is gone.. hell, the grave.. will no longer be needed, so done away with also. 14 And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Rev 20:14 (I courteously used KJ 2000 translation... not NWT.) ah

76

no stones please!

by almosthome in

i am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side.

this is my story so far, but i am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most i have read on your site.

the brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help.

almosthome

don't belong out here was posted as an observation. Yes, a sense of belonging is important, and I find it again when I sit in the hall.. even not being able to share...most of my witness years were not miserable. Some miserable things happened, but my kids and I had a lot of fun too, even yes.. even in field service. I had a lot of very nice years as a Witness child, and a lot of great friends as a Witness teen and YA, and later too. I don't think I implied anyone else's life was empty, or 'downed' anyone in any way. If I did please accept my apology.

.But the JW teachings are the only thing to make sense to me, all of these years. There can't be a burning hell... etc.--this is where you should have found what I base choosing my religion on. And I think the hell doctrine is my 'pivot point.' The religion that is clear on this to me, and JW is unique in their teaching on it, is the faith for me.

Yes, the pressures when I am a sister again worry me. I haven't ignored that, and I have explained them to husband as best I can. He teases me, asks me how the snakes were tonight....but he has been to a KH, a special assembly day (early in the marriage) and a Witness funeral. He knows Witnesses aren't really kooks. He respects my choice and trusts that I have some sense. I never expect him to convert. He swears nothing will ever get between him and his Camels!

I used Grace in the sense I understand M. Scott Peck used it, I believe he equated it with God's love.

I didn't mean to shock anyone or make anyone cry. This was just my honest story, I knew no other way to tell it.

I do hope I will be a better sister. I was rather full of myself when I was the perfect little Witness girl ....but I have learned a lot since then and believe I will be more compassionate now. There are many things I wish I could change, but getting sideswiped with a little humility will never be one of them.

Thank you for the good wishes, I don't feel sad, I feel at peace.

76

no stones please!

by almosthome in

i am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side.

this is my story so far, but i am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most i have read on your site.

the brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help.

almosthome

sorry about the yawn inducing.. I actually did try to shorten this thing.

at first I thought wow, never suspected of being a troll before.. but I am sure you get all sorts of things here.

Not playing you. Think this was a catharsis of my own. Which of course would always be a bit boring for anyone else! And I truly do think there may be some every now and then that need to hear a different set of words. Really. That is it. No agenda beyond that sharing, and no intention to hurt anyone.

almosthome

and I am sure the mods have ways of checking IP addresses, I imagine your 'player got banned?' Well, have him or her compare my IP, I have never registered here before.

76

no stones please!

by almosthome in

i am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side.

this is my story so far, but i am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most i have read on your site.

the brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help.

almosthome

I am hoping a little balance is allowed here, or at least the coin's flip side. This is my story so far, but I am fairly sure it is going to end up a bit differently than most I have read on your site. I found you while searching for some of the sites like Madzay, with the book binding and such. I am no perfect little witness girl, I have been df since 1998. But I am going back, and the stories I read last night actually only reinforced this decision, which I have been actively working on since the Memorial. You all know what I mean... I have been going to meetings with a view to being reinstated. I went back 70 pages or so here last night, up til 2 am, so I know most of the stories, and they really aren't very different from what I expected when I realized this was an 'anti-JW.' I know... I wasn't supposed to stay.. but I felt for so many of you. I have seen either myself or another sister or brother is so many of your histories....

I was 12 in 1975 and had some very eager expectations about 1975. I was so excited about God's new world! I graduated 7th in my high school class, and wish I had taken advantage of all of the scholarships that were being thrown my way...one of my great regrets. But I pioneered, and two years later married a brother who assured me he also wanted to enter missionary service...He stopped going to meetings right after the wedding. That tore my little heart out. There are lots of things I could blame Jehovah for if I choose to.. well, not really my marriage, I was way too young and so was he, and his own elder father tried to warn me he had a bad temper and hinted that he was acting apart in order to 'snag' me, but I was under the spell of young love.. and I really needed to get out of the house, we all know little witness girls only leave home to get married.... And don't direct me to the SilentLambs, I have my own story which I choose not to elaborate on, and yes, the brothers could likely have done a better job handling the whole thing... but I look back.. after suffering some bitter years and bitter tears... who were they? A bricklayer I recall for sure, a cattle farmer, and a fellow who drove for UPS I believe. Not psychologists or therapists or anyone with training... I am sure they probably did not know what they had been hit with, being told a father was molesting his girls... my sister got the worst of it, but that is all I want to say as to particulars. Spending their evenings, unpaid, trying to sort out a sordid story... Dad claimed mom put us up to it to get out of the marriage, of course he would say that... what were they to think? And of course there were no witnesses! Granted they never told mother exactly what she had to do. We did reunite with Dad... it was awful, tense, then next two years until I got married were grueling, fortunately later on Mom did break with Dad for good. My sister remains 'messed up.' Dad df years ago. Sister DF but was reinstated years later, but she won't be emotionally healthy until the NW heals her. Mom a sister, not really very active, but maintaining I believe.

But nowhere was there conspiracy. Mother was never threatened if she went to the authorities.. I think she held back out of simply being frozen, she just wanted to survive day by day. There was no proof, it would have been such a hard story to tell again....

Just understand I was Witness from 1971 at the age of 8 until 1998. Any 'JW issue' you can bring up, I have seen it. Gossip? Sure, it goes on, no matter how much the Society counsels against it. Same with cliques, worse in some congregations than others. My ex's job moved us around a lot, I have been in several. Arrogant elders? A couple. I recall one being livid over a little girl's dress trimmed in red, white and blue. I did find those to be in the minority. Elders with no real training to deal with delicate issues? oh everywhere... I have known what it is to be teen witness, young pio. witness, married witness, and single parent... pretty much all a female can cover except elderly sister so far! I understand so many past hurts, sticking out in school, not having the free time non-JWs do because of the constant meetings and service. And yes, sometimes going in service just flat sucked.

But being in the world has not made me free. Time just passes and I grow older. I stayed in a miserable marriage for 14 years because Witnesses don't divorce. The brothers couldn't help my husband, he didn't want help. (Won't post a lot about ex- he was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, so if you want to know what my life was like.. look it up, and that was my life.) The pressure grew, the abuse got worse and more physical. I went to a convention unable to swallow or barely talk from being half choked to death. He became a raging alcoholic, just like my Dad... I became very fearful, but elders had no authority to intervene in this.. but my heart was crying out for help. Looking back I know I was a woman bitter in spirit and crushed at heart... flat walking wounded. Somehow I carried on for the kids.. did I mention 4 of them? Having to make all decisions, handle small kids and a volatile man, by now on several medications who decided since he was crazy.. he wasn't responsible.. nor did he have to work (I am serious.. no job for 5 years...). We moved again to bring me back nearer to family. A minor incident brought on another beating. This time he let the kids see it.. and the look in my 12 year old son's eyes convinced me to take action before someone was crippled or killed... Yes he went to jail for a month, then the state hospital, and I took steps to protect us.

The brothers in this new town did not know me, or my painful history, or my faithful record through all of it. I wonder if anything would have been different if they had? Ideally, someone should have realized I was going to need some serious help! They never pressured me to take my husband back... And he DA'd from jail, I am sure he just wanted to avoid talking to the elders. I wasn't speaking to him. They asked me if I thought they should call on him before accepting his letter, I assured them that was their decision, but EX was perfectly lucid and not talking out of his head, but simply avoiding being finally challenged on his behavior. As he had not been even a meeting attender our whole marriage, the DA was rather an anti-climax of his own choosing.

So I embarked on single parenting 4 children. Looking back, the friends were kind. We were invited to friends' homes.. never shunned... I was working and homeschooling, I had homeschooled my children for years. I missed a lot of sleep! Didn't get a lot of service in, hardly time.. but this is what I believe really happened to me... an excess of freedom after years of oppression. I had gone from an abusive home to an abusive marriage, and now... I could make any choice I wanted. But all the wounds were still there... and I was alone.. and attractive, and out there in the world where men could hit on me. But of course I fell for one who needed to be taken care of! Alcoholic...I helped him into rehab...thought I was going to bring him to the truth!

There was one incident of fornication. I was really so repentant.. and went to the brothers myself! But... they insisted I had to break off all association, and I was certain he 'needed' me and I could avoid anymore improper conduct... I did intend to marry him. So I guess I was df for rebellion. They simply told me what I needed to do, and I couldn't do it. But... and this is so hard to type because if I came across this man tomorrow I would still have the same feelings! but.. the brothers were right. I should have listened to them. This man was no good for me, and he moved on...too late -I was already df. I did keep going to meetings. Was still going when I met my current husband, boy did he think this was all a convoluted mess! and still does. We married, and although he had no problem with me continuing to go to meetings.. I was distracted really. I had a new marriage to adjust to, and to integrate 4 somewhat shell shocked kids into also.. and working.. moving into management positions. I think I was still hurt that I was disfellowshipped even after being honest and repentant, and my new situation kept me plenty busy. New husband, although a non JW, has worked out well, I am still crazy about him. Never pressured me to participate in holidays.. he is a non- practicing Catholic. It hasn't always been smooth sailing with kids and we are raising a grandchild now. He believed me when I told him I thought I would always be a Witness at heart. He just wants me to be happy.

Although this was not an active decision, I think my heart wanted me to take enough time to decide if I was sure about that. I am amazed at how much time has passed actually, but it has been enough for me to know.. I don't belong out here. I tried to go to meetings two years ago.. evidently I wasn't ready. But now I can go to the KH and although I can't fellowship.. I feel I belong. I have worked through the things that I could blame Jehovah for if I chose to keep doing so, and realized where true blame lies. Some to myself, some to my father, maybe a little to my Mom but bless her, she was shell shocked too...maybe the elders, but it was not intentional...some to my ex.. himself damaged goods. But where is the source? Yes.. Satan. Some will mock.. but I believe this. And I won't mock anyone here, ever I promise.. each of you is on your stage of your journey..this is mine.. and I think all the steps have been necessary. I needed years to let go of bitterness, even though bitterness is not naturally a part of my personality. Some of you have also been terribly hurt.. and right now you might blame God, or the Society.. I can't fault you for that when I have been there, can I? Your Dad is not supposed to let you down! (Yes, both fathers are being alluded to here.) But perhaps someone will come here who doesn't feel right in the world either.. and read my story and realize that if their path is back to the Truth they knew before, that it is okay.

I have plenty of good memories. I have known elders with so much wisdom and humor, and sisters of deep compassion, and have known instances of Christian kindness and yes, even charity! I could elaborate, but I have rambled on enough. I suspect I needed time to heal, and maturity to see real issues, the cloud of pain needed to thin before I could do that. I have never been able to really befriend folks 'out here,' I don't understand them. Life seems pretty empty. I remember that even when I felt really oppressed as a girl, I felt Jehovah new me and cared. It took years of suffering to lose that, and Satan finally found what could break me, but I still remember..

Reading your stories, I will keep some of them in mind. Some have expressed that they were lonely. I hope I remember that someday when I am a sister, and someone needs encouragement. Those of you who have been damaged by gossip, I hope to remember that and one day, be the 'gossip stopper' when I see it come up in the congregation. Each of us can choose to be an agent for change. Was it M. Scott Peck who wrote that our opinion of the world is really an expression of our own character? I think the same is true inside the smaller world of the Society.

So I am going back. Will probably be the fall before I apply for reinstatement, I am in a completely new area, having moved for a management job. But hubby and I have bought a house.. which is a material thing I know! but gives me some small feeling of stability after all these years, I am not suddenly going to have to uproot myself at any time... as was the case for so many years. So I can go to meetings in one place and work on my theocratic schedule and habits...I feel at peace now, like it is all going to be okay. I was a better person as a Witness. I understood things, I found real answers in the Bible, esp. Proverbs, which always really spoke to me, even little phrases, like 'the law of lovingkindnes' or the 'joy of Jehovah.' Yes, I am capable of thinking for myself, but life beats us down,and the Bible is for our strenghtening, so using it to gain power is sensible, is it not?

Sure.. I read about the confusion.. 'what is the timetable now?' I am a little behind on the blood stuff. I am sure it is like corneal transplant.. that was not okay, then it was... there have been adjustments all the time. I think the UN stuff is just completely blown out of proportion! But each of us will view this the way we are ready to view it. If you want to see a reason to be against the Society.. well take your pick, you can find one. In the end.. you have to make a choice, just make sure it is a choice... not just a rection against your pain, or your circumstances. Fear is very powerful. Faith is more powerful. A WT quote from years ago... 'Negative thinking requires little of the intellect." Oh how true! Easiest thing in the world...

But I hope each of you finds your correct path. It is a hard, hard thing to be a human today. It isn't my place to tell any of you what you should do. But I have faith you can find it. But the JW teachings are the only thing to make sense to me, all of these years. There can't be a burning hell... etc.

Anyway, can't find a tidy way to wrap this all up. I don't expect to be a long time member. But there was actually benefit for me here...so I thank you.

Grace to you all

almosthome

10

"we are wonderfully made"

by tetrapod.sapien in

had a look at my wifes program from the dc on the weekend.

the only part that interested me was from friday morning called "we are wonderfully made", or something like that.

if anyone can get me a transcript or an outline, i would really like to dissect it for fun.

almosthome

why is that laughable? It is just a scripture quote. Haven't been to the convention, (I am currently DF) but I feel sure they are applying it to individuals, not the organization.

"I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, as my soul is very well aware."—Psalm 139:14.I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, as my soul is very well aware."—Psalm 139:14.

It might well be encouragement to view oneself as worthy. Heaven knows in this world that is needed! Did you ask her what it was about?

al