I am feeling my age here, but I think she's too young for all this romantic pressure and religious pressure at the same time. If sven really loves her, he will back off right now and be more of a friend. I almost feel like he is trying to replace her devotion to religion with himself, which just reads weird too me. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but she's only 20 years old, coming to terms with herself and a lot of things. It could end well or it could end very bad for this young lady and I just felt I needed to say that because I am hoping things don't go the latter.
Layla33
JoinedPosts by Layla33
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93
Dating a JW and how to get her off the cult or becoming a member myself
by svennibenni ini'm sorry if i'm totally wrong here but i have a serious problem.. i met a woman in the company i work in via intranet.
it is a very big company with offices all over the world.
she moved to the united kingdom just a few month before we met.
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122
Are You Having A Tough Time Making Ends Meet?
by minimus indo you believe we're in a recession?
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Layla33
Sammielee24, you bring up a very good point. I really believe they are trying to move us to a cashless society and I don't think it is a good idea. I have totally cut back because of the recession, I only spend money that I have, I don't use credit card at all, not for any reason whatsoever. If I don't have it, I don't buy it. I don't need to go out on the weekends, I would rather relax at home, save my money and call it a day.
Can we talk about hidden fees in banks these days? Right now I made a decision everytime I get paid to automatically take out a portion of my check, cash it and save it on me. They want to track us, trace us and at any moment pull the plug and we are stuck. I actually worked at a non-profit where twice we were unable to be paid on time, it was horrible. Suffice to say, I learned from my mistake.
Honestly, when you are in a recession, you cut back. Stay at home, watch videos, even when I am dating, I have no problem just relaxing in the house, watching a dvd and all of that. I am a minimalist anyway, so honestly I can survive on rice and gravy everyday and some kind of vegetable. At the very most all of us will have to pull back completely and cut back to the basics.
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One of the new guys
by Alex Delta intoday is the first day i was able to come out and say something that was on my mind by just replying to some subjects on this forum.
i see that its really a therapeutic way to get some of these things off my chest.
i was dfd almost 10 years ago and i just now am starting to come out and play.
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Layla33
I feel like I am Morpheus from the Matrix:
Welcome to the Real World.
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122
Are You Having A Tough Time Making Ends Meet?
by minimus indo you believe we're in a recession?
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Layla33
This whole topic is pretty funny really. It's always up to the person for their total responsibility and I've never understood that rationale. I wonder how we would justify saying that to the Iraqi's that couldn't leave and got bombed out, their families killed. Personal responsibility? How about the mobile homes in the trailer parks in California that got destroyed and left in the dust when the wealthiest homes had private firefighters sweep in to save their places? They were responsible in paying taxes but nobody saved their homes - how many years will it take them to get ahead? What about the people in Katrina who had insurance on their homes only to be waiting years later for the settlements to come in to begin rebuilding their lives? What about the people in Zimbabwe who have money in the bank to live on and jobs but can't get their cash out of the bank or earn enough to pay for the cost of food? Things are all relevant to where we are aren't they?
I particularly like this quote above. Minus credit card debt, this is about real people with real issues. When you get laid off from a job and the best you can do is get a $7.00 an hour job or even two or three jobs paying about that, things are going to suffer. People are losing their homes, the price of food has gone up, living has become very difficult. To be honest, I have worked in social service for many years and many people do not have compassion for the poor. Lose your home? Your problem! You get sick and can't work? Your problem! The economy is in ruins and thus we all suffer as humans? Your problem. There are more children out there starving then ever before in this country, low-skilled american citizens workers that can't find work because this government would rather give it to an illegal who they can pay less than minimum wage and no benefits whatsoever, I mean it is pretty sad.
I know someone who had a very high level job at AOL and was laid off from making in the triple figures. Had a nice home, nice education for his kids, stocks, etc and LOST EVERYTHING. This man lives in a studio apartment and he works two jobs just to have food on the table. Should he be blamed for anything? I don't get it.
My next response is just a general response, really. We have a right to vent about any old subject under the sun. Your opinion is just that, but this vicious personal attacking is uncalled for and reading it just boogles my mind. Have you walked in someone else's shoes, walked their path? Maybe some people come here to just vent, without all the sermonizing and whatever. Don't judge someone unless you would like the same judgment placed on you. No one walks a straight perfect line in this world. My heart goes out to anyone that is suffering right now, whether it is loss of work, illness, fear of losing their home and I want you to know that there are those of us that give a damn.
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7
Watchtower Commercials
by MissingLink inhave you guys seen these on tv yet?.
love your childrenteach your childrenprotect your children
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Layla33
Is this serious?
Love your children? BUT let them die on a table by refusing life saving blood treatment. Love your children but if they disagree with your religious views, shun them and kick them out of the house?
Protect your children? But allow other JWs to reprimand and spank your kids? Protect your children? But believe the circle of elders over your kids when it comes to all kinds of abuse especially sexual?
What a crock! PR spinning.
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122
Are You Having A Tough Time Making Ends Meet?
by minimus indo you believe we're in a recession?
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Layla33
At some point people have to start taking responsibility for the financial chaos they are in, you can’t always blame the government for not being able to pay your rent on time. It’s time for Americans to stop spending money they don’t have.
Actually I wish it was that simple. What you see happening has a lot to do with people living on credit cards which are dangled in front of us starting with color and these no money down mortgage payments that have in some cases doubled since people had them initially. Jobs are laying off people right and left - not small numbers but thousands in one day and people are being forced to lose their home because new bankruptcy laws are no good anymore. In my neighborhood I have seen seven sale signs go up in a six month period - that's not a good sign.
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93
Dating a JW and how to get her off the cult or becoming a member myself
by svennibenni ini'm sorry if i'm totally wrong here but i have a serious problem.. i met a woman in the company i work in via intranet.
it is a very big company with offices all over the world.
she moved to the united kingdom just a few month before we met.
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Layla33
HI Layla,
so you dont think there is any hope ? Have you been into JW ? How did YOU finish it ? All of you - That tells me it is possible !! One "only" needs a helping hand ?
Hi, I just saw your post and I wanted to respond.
I was raised in the JW organization and the majority of my family members are still part of it. I walked my own path and left on my own decision. I understand your perspective, but honestly I just gave mine. I know of hundreds of cases just like yours and rarely do they ever turn out the way you want them. The majority of the time if a person does leave the organization because of a love relationship it only lasts for a while, there is already strife between them that they have to get over and if it doesn't work out, there is an interjection of this JW religion involved.
That's why I wrote what I did because many times emotion and feelings can cloud judgement and I believe that once you come down a little bit from that emotion, reality sets in. I also know that the only way someone truly makes life long decisions is if the path is their own. People need to feel ownership over their decisions. The JW organization hits people at so many levels pyschological, familial, fear/guilt, body of friends that there are even people that decided to walk away on their own, but are emotional cripples unable to form meaningful relationships with others and have severe intimacy problems. The whole breaking away needs time to stick, the perso needs to unlearn behavior, thinking, etc and that is before jumping into a relationship or else it will seep into it.
Now, that is my thoughts on it, how that stands up to individual people can vary, of course. And maybe things will work differently for you, but know what you are up against and be prepared of where it could go. If someone asked my advice such as yours, I would tell them to run, and run fast and don't look back.
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My Wedding is coming up going to invite parents and siblings what to do????
by zamora251978 inhey guys,.
my wedding is coming up and i am going to invite my mom and my dad and the rest of my siblings.
how should i react when my recently new regular pioneer mother starts pitching a fit????
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Layla33
If this would me I would not even invite them. I was married and I didn't invite my parents to the wedding because I didn't want the headache drama and stress. I had nice dinners with them afterwards, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't subject myself to that stress.
You see once I decided to live a different life, I was realistic about how people would feel and how they would react in the JW religion and I accepted it. I did not mentally torture myself over it, I gave myself permission to live a different life. Therefore, under no circumstances would I put myself in mental anguish over life's events that I know my family would not attend or take away my joy.
I wish you the best, but I truly believe you are going to have to accept how your family feels and then live your life with that in mind. Letting "their beliefs" torture how you live means you are giving up your control and relinquishing it to them.
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Newbies - Tell Us Your Stories Getting out of the Witnesses
by flipper inhello newbies and others.
it is really exciting to see so many joining on board here looking for support !
perhaps some of us who have been there done that can give you some tips to make life a bit easier exiting the mind control cult, jehovah's witnesses .
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Layla33
Now that I am home from a long week, I can add my story, it's been about 18 or 19 years since I have been a witness of any sort. I left when I was 18, but I had drifted out at 17.
I think it started for a while, things didn't make sense to me, all these new information WT and new understanding started to get on my nerves. I distinctly remember watching a movie reel about the JW religion, it showed all the way back to the beginning, it showed JWs out with picket signs talking about the end of the world, and 1975 situation, and it just didn't make sense. I remember standing in the back after the meeting and looking at everyone there, it seemed so silly how they almost seemed like robots. "Great movie, Bob", yes it was "Brother Smith" and for the first time it seemed surreal.
I never allowed myself to question all the stories, situations I had heard and witnessed through the years. Having uncles, grandfathers that were very high up in the organization, I got to hear a lot of the other side of the religion. I don't consider my story to be about some prominent JW family because my father was DFs many times, along with my grandfather - always for cheating with other women, etc but everyone is "back in" and always came back within a few years. But I learned a lot about what was said and how people actually acted. I saw a very high up pioneer sister have an affair with my DFs father in our HOME, mind you. This brazen woman used to take us out in summers, pick us up to play with her kids, and yet somehow she was sneaking over and screwing my father as well.
I learned about the closet homosexuals that were forced into marriages, the wife beatings and yet the wife was kicked out for fighting against it. I knew a lot of things, even to this day which would shock the people "in". I remember a girl I grew up with that had sex with another prominent “brother” in the congregation. She was kicked out, he was not even reproved. Why? Because he said she seduced him. I saw many times that women were kicked out, reproved and men weren’t even criticized. And after a while the whole anti-women, archaic women are beneath men started to wear on my soul, even as a child.
But honestly as a child growing up, I just loved my family so much, that I did what they said, I saw the JW organization as a backdrop. Most of them loved us so much as kids and grandkids and nieces and nephews that even to this day that love survived the theology we were forced to accept. I guess I would feel a bit differently if they all completely cut me off cold turkey and I empathize with anyone that suffered such a thing. For me, even when they attempted to do it, I tried to reason with their love and reasoning skills.
I was actually the first in my family to actual rebel openly. Thinking about it now, I would have probably done some things differently, but I was young and full of fire. I woke up at around 15 one night and realized I truly didn't believe in this Armageddon thing and I thought about the fact that they may just have everything completely wrong. I tried to make sense of it, but I realized it was a lie. I thought about that film, the JWs with the signs, and all the incorrect information they routinely preached and how they tried to explain it away with a sentence. Did they think people were that stupid and gullible? How much new information and new revelations must you have before you realize that just about everything you are preaching is wrong, wrong wrong? My family had been in this religion since the 1950s, my grandparents were some of those people who believed in the 1975 predictions and to see them still trying to explain it away, was quite frankly sad to me. One day my paternal grandfather said to me, "It's not so much that we believe every little thing, it's about tradition really." And finally I thought to myself, maybe I just want to have a different tradition for myself.
I came across my diary I kept at 15. To read it is almost shocking, everything is Jehovah God this and Jehovah God that and Demons here and Demons there, but I see the little fragments of dissection in me, even as I tried to be the perfect JW.
One day my father, grandmother confronted me at 17 they wanted to know why I wasn't attending meetings anymore. (Somehow I had wrangled my parents to letting me live with my grandparents my last few years of high school. I adored them and yes, the spoiled me rotten.) I had found a way around going to meeting and going in service by getting a job part time and showing I was willing to take care of myself, so one day they just decided to do a JW INTERVENTION to let me know my actions were not ignored by “the family”. I still laugh about it. So my father goes on about me having friends that aren't JWs and my grandmother (whom I was really close to) wants to know why I don't go to the meetings and after them going back and forth I said, "I just don't believe what they teach". My grandmother put her hand on her heart and starting crying - yeah, they love the drama and guilt in my family. My father raises his hands up to the sky, "why, oh Jehovah?". I look at them and laugh, they were so mad. I said, "why can't I believe what I want? why can't I pick my own friends? I am not doing anything wrong, I just want to do what I want religiously". My grandmother looked at me shocked because it was the very first time in my life that I had ever went against what she said. Suffice to say, it didn't go anywhere because all I said was "well you can't force me I will run away, and you will never see my again, I will live in the street and beg for food, is that what you want?" Yeah I knew how to do the drama thing too. They just said they would revisit it at a later date, which never happened.
I decided to move out right after I graduated from high school. But not before my grandmother decided to forcibly try to keep me from leaving the house moving out. Her teary words were "They aren't going to love you in the world, they are going to eat you a alive, you can't leave your family" at which I replied "I am not leaving the family, I am moving out and leaving the religion". My grandfather the PO at the time told my grandmother to stop and he hugged me and said "I will always love you and we are family no matter what." I loved that man in so many ways because no matter what, he showed me love and THAT to me had nothing do with the JW religion, but who he was as a person. When he passed I never felt such sadness because he was one of those good decent people that are so rare these days. I digress.
I had some money saved up and I got my own apartment. One of my family members who was out of the religion at the time, but still under their silly delusions found out I had a boyfriend and was dating and told me that I should go tell the brothers or she would. I looked at her oblivious, “are you kidding me”? But I didn't care anymore, I went and told them, I knew the routine. They asked if I was sorry, I gave them the innocent look, "yes, so sorry" and then they drilled me for like three hours wanting to know every little detail of my relationship with these boyfriends and I got a little pissed. In fact, one of the elders that was one of my grandparents best friends seemed like he was getting off on it. Honestly, these men are not qualified to carry on police like interrogations and they are not qualified to psychoanalyze anyone. When they would stop, I literally asked them their qualifications for asking such detailed information, which they replied “Qualified by Jehovah”. At which I replied, “Can you tell me where you actually spoke with him? And I told them that their line of questions were bordering harassment to me, at which they told me to calm down and I said, “I am calm” but two of you didn’t even graduate high school, so how in the world are you putting me through this Q & A on the level of a precint? They just said they need to keep good records for their superiors and for record keeping and they said they really believed I was sorry and they wanted to encourage me and bring me back for more counseling. MORE COUNSELING?!!
They said they wouldn't DFs or even put me on reproof, they just wanted me to come back to the KH and that's when it got ugly. I said, "why"? And then I said, "well I have a problem with that" and then they went back and forth tried to call me to three and four more meetings and finally I said, "ENOUGH!" And I told them in no uncertain terms to never call my house again and to leave me alone. About a month later they sent me a certified letter that said I had been "DISFELLOWSHIPPED!!!".I looked at the letter, laughed and went out to dinner with my boyfriend.
My grandfather took it like a champ because he already knew. My grandmother cried like I told her I had cancer. They were hurt because to them it was so interconnected, family/religion that walking away from one, meant walking away from the other. I told my grandparents and parents and whomever cared to listen that I was going to live my life they way I wanted. I told my grandparents that at some point someone knocked on their door and they DECIDED in their own free will to believe what they wanted, so in no uncertain terms I deserve that same right. It has nothing to do with my love for them. It took my grandmother a good three years to get over it and now we have a very loving relationship and I take her out when I can, send her money, we talk and laugh. There are maybe two or three family members that don't talk to me AT ALL, but honestly I could care less because these are the ones I didn't talk to really anyway.
Now, when I first left I didn't know what I was or what I was going to be. I had nightmares about dying in Armageddon for about three to four years. It took me a good two years to get all the JW rhetoric out of my mind and in my word usage on a regular basis. I went to just about every religious organization you can imagine just to see/study and talk. For a while I was agnostic, and then I took some graduate courses on world religion and I realized I didn't truly believe in religion because it is all about people/cultures interpreting God. Buddhism spoke to me because it is a philosophy and I live my life philosophically and not religiously. Zen touched me and I am free. Leaving the JW was one of the hardest but most liberating choices I have ever made in my life. I dared to think and live differently and it was the best decision I ever made in my life.
I share my story because if there is one person who can be helped by what I went through, I am happy.
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JWs came to my door
by Victorian sky inthe boy was about 7 years old.
' he looked at his son and didn't answer.
'can you shun this boy?
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Layla33
I have to tell you, your post made my day.
The crux of the matter comes down to this, "why shun someone because their opinion differs from yours?"
I was DFs because I simply said, "I don't believe in your interpretations anymore". That's it!
So because I as an adult, uses my mind and my free will to say, I don't believe in your religion, your religion shuns me, which includes family, which is not only not spiritual, it's not biblical in any way. People are allowed to believe what they want.
Anyway, I wish I could save that response because it was absolutely one of the best I have heard, with heartfelt honest feelings. I applaud you.