That was a very interesting thread. I remember when they were going over the reading(at the ministry school) and comments on this passage. Yeah, it was messed up, and I could never quite see how Lot came out of it all as some hero, though Narcissus(sp) made some interesting observations. It would be interesting to talk to a rabbi type about this, because Jewish people look on the OT very differently than we at times.
JWdaughter
JoinedPosts by JWdaughter
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50
Was Lot A Righteous Man?
by jayhawk1 ini just have to ask this question.
was lot a righteous man?.
2 peter 2:7,8 says "and he delivered righteous lot, who was greatly distressed by the indulgence of the law-defying people in loose conduct- 8 for that righteous man by what he saw and heard while dwelling among them from day to day was tormenting his righeteous sould by reason of their lawless deeds.".
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My friend was "announced" last night!
by fullofdoubtnow inmy friend marion, who i've posted about on here, was announced at last nights meeting as being no longer one of jehovahs witnesses.
she sent a da letter in recently, and of course the elders tried to get her to change her mind, but she insisted, and threatened to forward a copy to the uk hq, so they made the announcement.. she had a phone call from her jw son just now, and not a pleasant one at that.
he asked her how she could be so stupid, and told her that this was the last call of any kind he would be making to her, and she won't be allowed to see her grandchildren again until she comes to her senses.
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JWdaughter
Marion, My warmest love is going your way. My mom is a little older than you and I wish she would be so courageous. I wish you well and happy.
One good thing about not being a JW is that all that energy you were going to waste pioneering can be used to actually help others, ignoring the resolution #5 of the recent convention: "We utterly refuse to become involved in futile interfaith movements, as well as social programs and schemes designed to perpetuate a system that God has condemned to failure." Like children or elderly or ?? Things to really help people will keep your mind active(I hear retirement can be hard on folks)and your spirit happy. Make sure that you keep doing things to make you happy, whatever that is. Living well is the best revenge!
I'm very proud of you for being honest with yourself and others. Thats so brave.
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What if? Works and no faith?
by JWdaughter ini was wondering, as i see all you under-the-radar-apostates-at-heart who still go along as jw's what the wt and elders would say about a person who didn't say anything about the org, went along with it, was a publisher, did the studies, went to the meetings, and did all they are 'supposed to do', but didn't buy a word of it?
for the same reason that many of you do, without speaking out about it, just keeping all the doubts, anger etc inside.
would you be saved at armageddon in their view?
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JWdaughter
I was wondering, as I see all you under-the-radar-apostates-at-heart who still go along as JW's what the WT and elders would say about a person who didn't say anything about the org, went along with it, was a publisher, did the studies, went to the meetings, and did all they are 'supposed to do', but didn't buy a word of it? For the same reason that many of you do, without speaking out about it, just keeping all the doubts, anger etc INSIDE. Would you be saved at armageddon in their view? Is it about works or faith? Does faith matter if you do the stuff right?
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Why didn't you think you were in a cult?
by beautifulisfree inso why didn't you think you were in a cult when you were a jdub?
my "worldly" husband always told me i was in a cult when we were dating..i didn't believe him.
but, to this day i still don't know why i didn't agree with him.
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JWdaughter
That we were considered a cult was just one more proof that we had Jehovah's favor, don't you know! If the world thought we were nuts, GREAT, cause we know the world is going to be destroyed and we WANT to be despised.
That, and the WT said we weren't.
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Met a JW while my mom was in surgery
by JWdaughter inso, last thursday my mom had a outpatient surgery at the local clinic.
across the seating area a couple of people were talking and i got the sense that they were jws, though they didn't say anything specific to the org., they did use some catch phrases(brother-to a middle aged black gentleman, by an older white woman).
we were discussing recipes and diet issues, and i mentioned that i had never had brisket until this woman in my church made one.
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JWdaughter
Arthur said: JWdaughter, Great post. I really enjoyed reading it. I have one question about what you wrote: missed so many other things, the perverted baptism, the questionable translations, the dishonest quotations(that I have seen for myself), the twisted logic and on and on. When you said: "the dishonest quotations", which ones particularly are you refering to. Are you refering to the ones in the Creation Book? Just curious. >>>>>>>>>>I wanted to just tell you a little about myself. When I was 18 or so, I went to BYU's library. They have a very complete collection of JW literature. I also, while in another state, went to a religious seminary's library that also had a very good collection of it. I had the opportunity to read many of the things that I had seen 'quoted' before in anti literature that JWs will tell you are misquotes and out of context. Well, they were not either, although I actually found one that was damning even IF a bit out of context. This was over 20 years ago, and I don't have the notes I took anymore. I also saw some crazy things in the WT literature. since one can get most of it online or on disks nowadays, it is interesting to look up and just read for the pure "alice in wonderland" effect of it all (that crazy!)
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Met a JW while my mom was in surgery
by JWdaughter inso, last thursday my mom had a outpatient surgery at the local clinic.
across the seating area a couple of people were talking and i got the sense that they were jws, though they didn't say anything specific to the org., they did use some catch phrases(brother-to a middle aged black gentleman, by an older white woman).
we were discussing recipes and diet issues, and i mentioned that i had never had brisket until this woman in my church made one.
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JWdaughter
Thank you all for the kind words. Of course I have thought of all that I could have said and didn't, but I think it was a good conversation and I know I gave her (and elder across the room) something to think about. She was a very nice lady, never was nasty, and I liked her, so I hope she gets the courage to look further into things that 'bug' her.
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Did you ever hear any active witness complain or criticize the Org?
by JH in.
it seems to me that all the jw's i knew while going to the meetings, weather they were spiritually strong or weak, never criticized.
they were like real sheep.. i used to always bitch about the length of the meetings and the time of the meetings and so on.....when i drove the brothers back home in my car or talked to them in private.. naturally i would only say this to my closer jw friends or those i knew wouldn't squeal on me.. .
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JWdaughter
A lady at the dr. office recently asked me why I left the JWs(she is very active) and I told her. I said that never been able to disagree was an issue for me. She said she just kept her disagreements to herself and 'waited on Jehovah' to set them straight. (I was inwardly saying the 'waitng on Jehovah' part to myself when I saw that one coming. She admitted that she didn't agree with everything, but when I brought up the point about birthdays(lame issue, but it was someones birthday) and not being able in good conscience to teach JW reasons as they thought they were dishonest and manipulative. She wondered why-when they had so much truth, I didn't just go along anyway-it wasn't that big an issue-could I find anyone else with all that 'truth'? Well, obviously my issues are deeper than birthdays, but it is an example of why I hate the organizational control, I said " I should not HAVE to deny what I believe" and "I can have disagreements in other churches without being expelled from them if I honestly express myself to the wrong person " And if birthdays were so unimportant-why the heck would people be disfellowshipped for observing them? Anyway, we had talked for quite a while(I mentioned some in an earlier post), but she admitted vaguely that she did not agree with everything AND that the control issues (that I had) had some justification. I am sure I am some "experience with a goat" now at her hall, but it was good to listen to and talk to her. (There was a 'brother' from her cong. sitting in the waiting room also)
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Needing advice on recently DF'd neice
by thinkingbloke inthis is my first post so i guess that means i am not a lurker anymore.. i have been inactive for nearly 2 years now, but recently my teenage neice was df'd.
she has moved out of home with another df'd girlfriend of the same age.
i know she is getting a lot of pressure from my family to come back, and of course she would be feeling very alienated and probably confused.
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JWdaughter
It took a lot of courage for her to break away like that. If you can get her some groceries when you shop, give her a gift card to the local discount store when you can, little things add up to be a large blessing and help. You can do it openly or privately. She will understand your motives, but she is young and if you are worried about it getting out, you might want to be anonymous.
Isn't it a sick religion that tears families apart like that? Isn't it sick that you feel constrained to help a young family member because it will cause so many repercussions? I hate it religion is used to divide and hurt.
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Family moving; Need input
by LtCmd.Lore ini'm in a family of five and we are planning on moving, however... i'm going to da myself shortly after finishing school.
i want to wait because i won't be 18 'till april and could therefore be forced to attend the meetings.
so here is the issue, they are looking for a house that can comfortably fit five people, we have found several great houses that would work wonderfully for four people, but we are going the long and expensive way so that we can fit all of us comfortably.
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JWdaughter
I will offer up a suggestion as the mom of an 18 year old who will be moving out in 2 weeks. We are very crowded in our house also. If it had been possible for the kids to double up and be comfortable, I would have loved it, but our two boys are 13 years apart and my daughter is in the middle. It really isn't working, and a bigger house would be more burdensome, as much as we could use the extra space after he moves. Tell your folks that you don't really think you will be home for long after graduation and that you may make some choices that take you out of your area. (maybe they are dreaming of missionary/Bthel service)Since college is no longer a 4 letter word, that may be an option, but just letting them know you are willing to share and that you *may* be moving on is kind-giving them a heads up and being gracious about sharing. Don't know what your little brother will think of it though. . .Good luck on your future and DON'T SETTLE, go for the best life and don't get too romantically involved until you are financially and emotionally ready for it.(That screws everyone up-in more ways than one!)
Gosh, I sound like a mom!
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My Mom's First Birthday!!!!
by mama1119 ini threw my mom a surprise birthday party this year at a nice restaraunt with all her closest friends and family.
she hasn't had a birthday party since she was 7 (she turned 47 today).
she was in the borg for 25 years and this was the first time in 25 years she got to celebrate.
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JWdaughter
Awesome, tell her happy Birthday from Shelly!