arthur, .
in a thread on another post you asked the question quoted below.
i thought that it deserved a thread of its own.
"When people claim, 'you attack me not my idea', perhaps they should look at that idea more carefully as it may be so naive and with such little substance that only an ad hominem response would grace it with any dignity at all."
Excellent point. Even when an idea does not originate exclusively with the poster, if one posts said idea in full agreement with it, they have incorporated the idea into their own persona, making it justifiably vulnerable to criticism as a reflection of the poster.
when i left the rub a dub dubs, i was bitter, angry, disillusioned, and fearful of stepping out in faith again.
i didnt want to get burned.
i could have stayed that way.
Lets discuss the REAL motives underlying this post. You are pissed off because people have been pooping on your LDS mormon parade.
I will state this to you again, in the hopes you will get it. This is a discussion board for ex-cult members recovering from their experiences with a mind-controlling
and manipulative organization. I would conservatively estimate that at least 60% of the regular posters here are either atheist/agnostic or non-christian. You are more
than welcome to enjoy your new-found "religion". The fact is, I find a stunning number of similarities between LDS and the JWs, and I am certainly not alone in this opinion.
This is a FREE discussion board with diverse views and opinions. If someone wants to criticize the LDS, WTS, Roman Catholic, Islam, whatever, we have total freedom to do this.
Leaving a cult means LEAVING the CONFORMITY of "group think", and that is the entire point of this D.B. If you cant deal with alternative points of view, and you cant
cope with valid criticisms directed towards the mormons, you are more than free to leave the board and start posting on a MORMON discussion board, where I assure,
EVERYONE will agree with you, a situation very similar to "the kingdom hall".
Instead of making up some silly and convenient "category" (gollum, WTF? ) within which you can dismiss the opinions of those criticizing your sect, try offering some
rational arguments to support your defense of the LDS.
my dil called to tell me that she, my son and the children got dress to go to the meeting last night.
they have been somewhat irregular in meeting attendance.
she has been receiving constant pressured from her sister to attend.
Congrats!
a local man, a non-jw church member, committed suicide last week.
my wife, as usual, prepared a covered dish and took it to their house as an expression of sympathy and to help out.
she just received a thank you card from them and i thought i'd share part of it: .
Can you imagine punishing a child so distressed they tried to kill themselves in earnest?
What they did to you was absolutely disgusting. The cases I referred to were very troubled young adults who actually stayed in the borg, which is ironic
since I am sure being raised as dubs was what led to the depression and suicide attempts.
i have four sons and my youngest is a daughter.. she leaves for the army on thursday.
i am in a state of panic and emotion to try to convince her to not go.. i just heard on tv that becuase of the rising violence in bahgdad, bush is sending more troops to iraq.
the developments in isreal and lebanon only seem to be escalating.......the un asking britian and us for help but because of prior commitments......(iraq) are unable.
What would you tell your 19 yr old friend, daughter, sister, cousin, Aunt.........that was getting ready to leave for the Army, knowing that they can back out until they say their oath before getting on the plane to leave for bootcamp.
Think of it this way. Knowing what we do now about the pointlessness of the Viet Nam war, what would your decision have been in 1968? Iraq is the Viet Nam of Bush Incorporated. A pointless war of attrition that will lead to nothing except the generation of new generations of terrorists and the deaths of thousands more Americans. It is a black hole of trillions of dollars of debt, which will ultimately end in the establishment the "Failed State" of Iraq, which will then descend into the abyss of civil war, as soon as the US army leaves. The lives of these soldiers are being wasted for a useless cause.
If this was 1939, I would have an entirely different response, knowing the obvious justification for WW2. Iraq is not a "war", it is now just the bush administration sending your children over to a hell hole to help him save face. This "war" has already failed.
a local man, a non-jw church member, committed suicide last week.
my wife, as usual, prepared a covered dish and took it to their house as an expression of sympathy and to help out.
she just received a thank you card from them and i thought i'd share part of it: .
Well I guess we can agree to disagree, since it is clearly dependent on the individual congregation.
As I mentioned, the MS who committed suicide (with a shotgun to the head, no less) was given a full JW funeral, with about 350 in attendance.
I know of at least 2 JW suicide attempts, in the Toronto area, people I knew, one in the 80s and one in the early 90s. Neither were DF'd. Obviously is left up to the
judgement of the local BOE.
a local man, a non-jw church member, committed suicide last week.
my wife, as usual, prepared a covered dish and took it to their house as an expression of sympathy and to help out.
she just received a thank you card from them and i thought i'd share part of it: .
Crumpet:
From the sounds of this article, its not. Have they explicitely said that suicide attempts are grounds for DFing? If so, citation please.
They From the Feb 22, 2000 Awake:
Those whose loved ones commit suicide are often tormented by the question, What could I have done to prevent it? Alertness to warning signs and risk factors may avert an attempt. But if not, remember that you are not responsible for another person's self-destructive act. ( Galatians 6:5 ) This is especially important to remember in those cases where the suicidal family member deliberately seeks to inflict guilt on others. Dr. Hendin, quoted earlier, notes: "It should be kept in mind that fatal suicide attempts are often made by people who are hoping to influence or manipulate the feelings of other people even though they will not be around to witness the success or failure of their efforts."
Dr. Hendin goes on to point out: "In the case of older people who are suicidal, there are often grown children as well as siblings or marital partners whom the patient wishes to influence, control, or force to assume a more protective role. The demands of the patient are often impossible to meet, the patient is often uncompromising with regard to them, and suicide attempts that are not serious are often followed by attempts that are."
Family members in these circumstances may feel that they are truly under extreme pressure, beyond their strength. Yet, never forget that Jehovah God raises up the dead and that this might well include our loved ones who because of depression, mental illness, or despair took their own lives.—See "The Bible's Viewpoint: Suicides—A Resurrection?" in Awake! of September 8, 1990, pages 22-3.
While suicide cannot be justified, it is comforting to remember that the future prospects of our loved ones rest with a God who fully understands that weaknesses and frailties could push one to such desperate action. The Bible says of Jehovah: "As the heavens are higher than the earth, his loving-kindness is superior toward those fearing him. As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, so far off from us he has put our transgressions. As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those fearing him. For he himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust."—
a local man, a non-jw church member, committed suicide last week.
my wife, as usual, prepared a covered dish and took it to their house as an expression of sympathy and to help out.
she just received a thank you card from them and i thought i'd share part of it: .
In general, I have no idea what the WTS stance is on suicide, however I believe they think the suicidee will be eligible for resurrection.
An active MS committed suicide around here not long ago. His wife was having an affair with an Elder. They gave him a regular JW funeral, and just
referred to his death as "tragic" without using the word suicide.
ok, i am now guilty of feeding into the "big announcement" frenzy on the board!
another poster made an interesting suggestion that the "hypothetical" big announcement may be the elimination of the d.c.. i think this is a real possibility.
its been cut down to 3 days from an original 8 days over the years.
I would be extremely curious to see the gross amount they spend each year, worldwide on the DCs, relative to the amount of donations they receive.
Given that the vast majority of JWs are shall we say, financially challenged, I would still bet they dont even come close to breaking even.
i'm not sure if this has been talked about already, but why are there no windows inside kingdumb halls?
8 large windows in ours, but its an older one from the 50s. It depends on the city and country but most new ones being built
dont have windows. I think its more an issue of making sure the dubs have no "outside" distractions during the propaganda sessions.
