New Order used to be Joy Division until Ian Curtis committed suicide. I used to love Joy Division, really powerful music but incredibly depressing. New Order formed straight afterward but the music changed to a more electronic feel.
New Order, dont know about JW's but the name certainly sounds like it has Freemason origins.
jwfacts
JoinedPosts by jwfacts
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9
New Order / True Faith
by seattleniceguy inhey all,.
i'm just kicking it here in japan, sipping some sake and listening to tunes.
right now i am chilling to some new order.
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jwfacts
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30
Do you know of any "baptized" JW's single sisters that got "pregnant"?
by booker-t ini was just curious about this question.
when i was a jw i remember a young baptized sister that got pregnant and she was unmarried.
i was waiting for the elders to either disfellowship her or reprove her but nothing happened to her.
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jwfacts
One sister in Tasmania slept with the guy at work a few times and fell pregnant, so he promptly dumped her. She didn't get disfellowshipped, the elders must have felt sorry for her.
A couple in my last cong did the deed before getting engaged and fell pregnant. They got d/f and ended up having twins. Thats what happens when your religion forbids single people carrying condoms.
There was a comment about falling pregnant and not knowing it. A married pioneer couple in Tasmania also feel pregnant. She was very well built and did not know she was pregnant until her waters broke! What sort of education do JW's get??? -
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jwfacts
Leaving the Org does not have to increase the chance of a divorce. The divorce rate amongst JW's and normal people is virtually the same.
Having friends of the opposite sex can also be platonic. I have had several extremely close friends for decades without any involvement.
But I would trust your intuition, and if you feel there is a problem suggest discussing it. Doofdaddy makes a good point. If the organisation was the common thread in your life then you will need to work on finding other commonalities. -
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Free will?
by upside/down inwe are not given the same chance that "adam & eve" were given.... we actually should all be given our own "paradise" planet and the same parameters that were given to them.... we are not...we are born with all sorts of inborn "imperfections" and outside influences...beyond our control.
so any "test" is a farce.. interesting that the only "perfect" people (jc don't count as he was pseudo-human...he was in the know)...failed....yet supposedly, many of us "imperfects" are successful...how so?.
"religion" fails to satisfy the truly enquiring mind........again!.
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jwfacts
How can it be said Adam and Eve had free will if they were told they would be snuffed if they did anything God did not approve of. If in the new system we have to live in accordance to Gods rules or else be killed, that is not free will, so why create us with the ability for wrong in the first place. It makes no sense.
Yin Yang is far more logical. Day night, good bad, creation destruction. The earth will not last forever so we were obviously not put here to live forever. The bible and most religions of all denominations teach the concept of heaven. So why be put on earth in the first place. To me it seems to be just part of the cycle to learn what the cycle is. Growth, wisdom and knowledge seem to be the goal. -
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OOps think i opened the floodgates (and I dont mean heaven)
by PoppyR inso... last night i had the dreaded conversation with my mother.
she phoned and asked if she could 'help' me with the truth.
i just could not pretend any more i was missing meetings cos i was depressed or any other reason, i just told her i was having doubts about the whole thing and did not see the point in leading a double life and 'limping along'.
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jwfacts
LOL, I'm liking you already.
I am exactly the same age as you, similar situation. It is strange how at some point something just clicks and it is so obvious it is the UnTruth.
I hope it works out. I could not help shooting off my mouth when the elders came for their shepherding calls and am now in the bad books. Some how I have evaded being d/f for 12 months so far, but the elders make it known they are never far away, even though I have not been to a meeting for 6 months (can't let me harm the flock).
BTW I am also working the corners, but there is not much demand for skinny men around where I live. -
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Where are all the people who failed the BIG TEST...?
by upside/down inisn't it odd that all the crucial contests in the bible between good and evil....involved some human "keeping integrity"?
we know for example what job did... .
were there any guys like job that flat out failed?
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jwfacts
The JW Sovereignty issue is totally senseless.
(The following may be a bit offensive for some JWs and Christians)
Jehovah creates everyone and everything. Some little created angel says he should be ruler so 1/3 of the angels follow him. I don't think so.
Same said angel claims that Jehovah God Almighty, the Creator, the Alpha and the Omega, the only One who has no beginning, the only One with the power to destroy every other being, has no right to be the ruler, so Jehovah says "you have a good point, let 20 billion people suffer for 6000 years just to prove whether of not you are right. In fact, we'll send Jesus to pay back the debt and then let everyone suffer for another 2000 years just for the hell of it". I don't think so. -
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05 CIRCUIT ASSEMBLY: WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT?
by stillAwitness intheme: keep your eye simple.
okay, duh.
when jesus spoke of keeping a simple eye he obviously was speaking about something more mental than literal right?
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jwfacts
God blessed Abraham, Job, David, Solomon all with great riches. He certainly doesn't think a bit of dough is a bad thing.
Jesus was talking about the mental attitude, and I know a lot of poor people that worship money more than the rich do. Just as Jesus said, you dont need to commit adultry to be an adulterer, so nor do you need money to be materialist.
Unfortunately the WTS doesn't believe the average JW can understand following principles, so they try to make black and white rules. Great for mindless followers. -
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Underground Reformed JW movement
by RealNewLight inthis is a movement which has been growing slowly but steadily among young people in spanish and portuguese speaking congregations in the united states.
basically it is a movement created by winesses who believe in much of the teachings of the organization, but do not believe in the authority of the wts, or any other body.
they also do not believe in disfellowshiping, and believe that every decision should be a personal conscience matter.
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jwfacts
I love the idea and can imagine it is going to start globally. There is a thread at the moment, Can the truth survive the internet? which shows that access to information is opening the eyes of many people. Many do not want to leave though, and that is where this type of group can comes in.
Though I can no longer can bear to go to meetings I still occasionally keep in touch with many of my 30 yo friends. Many of them do not have any great amount of confidence in the WTS. Rather they go for the family, because it is their culture, and its where their friends are. Many appreciate that it kept them moral.
As time goes on and Armageddon does not come the WTS can not survive in its current form. But it is a unique Org due to the Trinity teaching. So it can survive for the non-trinitarian worshipper with emphasis on conscience as the Underground movement appears to be pushing.
I have struggled long and hard with my parents, but now understand they can not leave the Org because everything they have is invested in it. I would much rather they retained the faith than were cast out from the org with nothing at this stage in their life. So I would really appreciate if the WTS became a nice place to be.
Drop Armageddon doom and gloom, drop the guilt, drop the blood doctrine, ease up on disfellowshipping, give room for the conscience, and it would not be such a bad religion to be part of. -
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does anyone realy know how many 144,000 are realy left?
by lied too ini have been talking to some friends of mine both in and out of the "cult".
and the one thing that no one can come up with is how many of the socalled 144,000 are left, i would estamate there to be atleast 145,000 still kicking today.
if any one out there know's of a number and not the number put in the watchtower, i mean realy do you belive all you read.
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jwfacts
The WTS believes that there are in reality far fewer than the 8000 partakers. They have had articles to say that it is highly unlikely anyone is receiving the calling anymore, and to be careful against taking the emblems if you have a history of mental illness or are going through some form of trauma in your life.
In otherwords, most of the anointed are considered to be insane. -
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Jesus was a liar.
by nicolaou infirstly, it is not my intention here to offend anyone so if you are likely to get upset at reading 'blasphemous' statements or criticism of jesus then perhaps you should go to another topic.
also, i am not in the habit of making personal attacks on other posters, if you decide to stay and read this - don't attack me!
by all means rip my post to pieces and explain where i got it all wrong, but don't shoot the messenger.. and remember, i come from the same place as most of you, i was one of jehovah's witnesses for over thirty years.
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jwfacts
I had always thought that John Lennon had studied with the JW's and the song 'Imagine' was about the New System. I guess that is another urban myth as well.