jwfacts

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Posts by jwfacts

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  44

  Do any of us really want the truth?

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been reading some essays concerning disagreement online that got me thinking - i won't even attempt to do them justice but to share some ideas that struck home to me.

  we spend most of the time here sharing ideas and thoughts often in response to other posts and as arguements to invalidate or re-colour what someone else said.

  there is an implicit drive behind each thread to somehow approximate a 'truth' from the many different viewpoints - almost like a collective conscience ('the forum') weighing and then selecting or rejecting the mood of the thread and as we share in the posts we add just a little weight and influence to its direction.

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  jwfacts

  Defd
  You claim you have the truth, I claim that if you believe what the WTS teaches that you do not. Who is correct? (unless Enigma One is correct and we both have truth!)
  We both have studied much of the same information, so how do we decide?
  By weight of numbers? Then I win because it is 6 billion supporters against 6 million.
  By intelligence? Would an IQ test reveal who has truth?
  By sincerity? I believe I am sincere, and I am sure you feel the same about yourself.
  If sincerity, intelligence or popular support can not help a person prove truth then how can anyone claim to have absolute truth?
  The WTS attempts to overcome this problem by the claim that Jehovah draws his sheep. Is that realistic. If so, why did he draw me, choose me for privileges of service, to give public talks, allow me into bethel? Did Jehovah draw me as a sheep, but now I have had a genetic change to become a goat, or am I goat that was masquerading as a sheep?
  The only truth that I hold to is that no one can know absolute truth, at least not know what anyone elses absolute truth is. That is why judging others as worthy of destruction because they do not share your view of truth is more wrong than what your individual belief is.
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  44

  Do any of us really want the truth?

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been reading some essays concerning disagreement online that got me thinking - i won't even attempt to do them justice but to share some ideas that struck home to me.

  we spend most of the time here sharing ideas and thoughts often in response to other posts and as arguements to invalidate or re-colour what someone else said.

  there is an implicit drive behind each thread to somehow approximate a 'truth' from the many different viewpoints - almost like a collective conscience ('the forum') weighing and then selecting or rejecting the mood of the thread and as we share in the posts we add just a little weight and influence to its direction.

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  jwfacts

  Many people want to believe something they are comfortable with more than wanting to know the truth.
  Before speaking to any of my relatives about the JWs I have been asking "Do you want "The Truth" of do you want to know the truth?. When they admit that they love being a JW, or they are scared their live will be meaningless with out it, or that their husband would leave them if he was not a JW, or if they refuse to read anything not in a Watchtower it becomes plain that they do not want truth, they want to defend "The Truth" at any cost for an ulterior motive. That person is not ready for change and it is generally a waste of time talking to them.
  I have two close friends that are active JW's that I discussed a few concepts with about why JW's are not directed by Holy Spirit. Both said they do not want to know, because they want to believe in an earthly paradise, otherwise their lives would be pointless. That it a common response and shows that not everyone is after truth.
  People are always searching for religion, and end up in any number of denominations. Every church has it's converts because they appeal to what some type of person wants to believe, or is sucked in to what they teach, not because it is true. One of my relatives is certain JW's have the truth because he went to JW and Born Again meetings and did not like the 'feel' of Born Agains. Looking at just two religious ideas and choosing on feel is a very improbable way to finding real truth.
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  31

  God help GREEDY meat beating 12 y.o. boys from the ELDERS

  by hamsterbait in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the information about the elders school disturbed me.

  how many little boys, baptized way before they should be, will be permanently damaged in their sexual life because a dub parent turned them in to the elders because they were caught beating off to boobies in a newspaper or magazine?

  even if they are not df, the questioning alone would do irreparable damage to self esteem?

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  jwfacts

  I used to wrestle the eel and actually chose to confess to the elders, oh the humiliation, no wonder I still feel like a looser sometimes.
  I know a couple of different elders that were put down for 'it'. I bet the other elders were all sitting there thinking that there was nothing wrong with the red faced elders doing 'it', but they had an obvious problem with keeping things confidential.
  Another young guy I know had an elder ask if he had a problem with masturbation. He said 'not at all, I'm an expert at it', wrong response for anyone wanting to climb the congregation ladder.
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  44

  Do any of us really want the truth?

  by Qcmbr in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been reading some essays concerning disagreement online that got me thinking - i won't even attempt to do them justice but to share some ideas that struck home to me.

  we spend most of the time here sharing ideas and thoughts often in response to other posts and as arguements to invalidate or re-colour what someone else said.

  there is an implicit drive behind each thread to somehow approximate a 'truth' from the many different viewpoints - almost like a collective conscience ('the forum') weighing and then selecting or rejecting the mood of the thread and as we share in the posts we add just a little weight and influence to its direction.

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  jwfacts

  I understand your point and agree with you. There is no way to prove almost anything beyond doubt, so each person takes what they think is the most logical answer and run with it.
  It is amazing how religion/religion or religion/science discussion generates such dogmatism and even agression in people when so much of what is said comes down to a large degree of faith.
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  6

  Looking for article on God needing an Organisation

  by jwfacts in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am writing an article for my site on whether god requires an organisation.

  for some reason a lot of dubs i talk to think that jehovah must have an org and they can't find one better than the wts.

  i remember a great article mentioned in one of the threads about 3 months ago on this site.

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  jwfacts

  Thanks for the quotes, all very helpful.
  MerryM, that was exactly the thread I was after, the article shows quite plainly that Jehovah more often than not uses individuals not an organisation.
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  30

  My own Brother writes.....

  by geevee in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just receieved this this morning.

  initially i was seething.

  but now i think that the best reply is no reply.

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  jwfacts

  That made my blood boil. The letter makes you sound like a cold heart person happy to let your children die. Maybe a very short letter would be best, just so it is clear where you stand. Basically saying that you are satisfied that you are doing what is best for the long term welfare of your children, as you now know that being a Jehovah's Witness is not what is required for salvation. If he ever would like to know why you feel that way then one day you would like to discuss it with him (that is if you feel able to have a reasonable discussion with him, which is often difficult with family)
  
  My sister did similar to me, and i am not even disfellowshipped yet. She rung me twice, abused me over the phone and then hung up on me and has not spoken to me since. It plays over and over in my mind because I just want to let her know what I know and have never been given the chance.
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  27

  Before getting married in a JW hall were you if you have had sex?

  by technics1200 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  .

  just want to know if it is normal practice for the elder giving your wedding talk to ask you and your partner if youve had sex, about 1 week before youre due to get married?.

  happened to us, and we were f'in shocked!.

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  jwfacts

  We were asked that too, think it is a standard question, though it was phrased "Is there any reason that you should not get married in the kingdom hall that we should know about?". I know of a couple of people who must have said yes as the wedding was moved at the last minute from the hall.
  Any smart person would wait to confess until after the wedding, saves the hassle of having to find somewhere else to have the ceremony.
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  25

  Theocratic supermarket trolleys [Ozzie's Weekend Poll #154]

  by ozziepost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i can brave most things but i've yet to find an answer to those "i've got a mind of my own" supermarket trolleys!

  talk about ambidextrous - those wheels can go in opposite directions at the same time!.

  of course, all that will change in the "new system"tm.

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  jwfacts

  number 6. there wont be supermarkets in the new system.
  In every Watchtower picture of the New System that I remember, each family has their own little vegetable garden to eat from. Since there are no roads, even if there was a supermarket there would be no way to drive the groceries home. And of course there won't be any butcheries.
  And about the trolleys, of course Ozzie has the correct term.
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  9

  USE EDUCATION TO PRAISE JEHOVAH outline

  by ackack in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  use education to praise jehovah no 146 (11/00)

  note to the speaker:.

  present this material in an appealing and reasonable way.

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  jwfacts

  Jehovah's Organization teaches obedience to ... "superior authorities"
  even if the definition of who those superior authorities keeps changing over time.
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  33

  Brief Announcement: I have disfellowshipped the Watctower Society

  by bigmouth in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is with little or no regret that i have found it necessary to disfellowship the watchtower bible and tract society in order to protect my good name.

  after unrepentantly fornicating with the scarlet coloured wild beast for 10 years and having been exposed by a worldly organization, i have not been able to find any note of contrition or shame.plenty of time has been allowed for an apology but nothing has been forthcoming.indeed, minimising the sin indicates a haughty attitude.

  i,for my part,will forever be ashamed of my association with wtbs.i apologise to bible students i've had and the fear i have displayed in saying nothing for 24 years.

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  jwfacts

  Great post, I think Part 6 of the latest elders school clears it up. Associating with the UN would be classified as uncleaness, not confessing or being repentant makes it 'with greediness'. You are right they should be disfellowshipped.
  
  And about the suits, any door to door sales man would be glad to take them off your hands.
  
  (In one of the last talks i ever did went into great detail on the similarity of the principles of being a salesman and the guidelines in the reasoning book. For some reason it offended a couple of people in the audience)