Posts by jwfacts

11

The New System

by sandy in

is there enough scriptural support for the beleif in a paradise here on earth?

i heard somebody say that there isn't.

i curious to here any other thoughts on this.

What proportion of JW kids stay Witnesses? How about in your cong?

by jwfacts in

the wts is currently growing at about 1.3 % which is similar to the global propulation growth rate.

if all the jw kids stayed as jws then the religion could grow as quickly as it is now without any door knocking.. if in 2005 1.2 billion hours witnessing resulted in the religion only growing at the rate it should be naturally it suggests a lot a kids are leaving, or doorknocking is not having very good results.. of about 100 people born into the wts that i can remember in my congregations in australia about 3/4 of them have left.

is that the same in your congregation?

jwfacts

I feel for you StillaWitness. No one your age in the hall and you don't agree with the doctrine either. Make as many friends as you can at Uni and when the time is right RUN.

32

Symbolic generation. Does it extend batting time for WTBTS?

by Spectrum in

before coming on this forum i didn't know that the jws had changed the generation definition from literal to symbolic and i obviously predicted that this religion will be finished when that last 1914 codger dies.

when i found out that they had changed their definition i thought, bloody hell this religion is going to go on forever.

then i thought that no, they are going to fade out, then i settled on, they are going to survive just like the catholics and orthodox.

jwfacts

They will change and morph but keep on going, but without much in the way of growth. Their core doctrine in Jehovah and no Trinity, plus the paradise, so that is enough to differentiate a religion.

There are not 6 million that like the religion. Only some of the followers actually like their way of life. But many I know feel overwhelmed by the guilt, and talk about how much the New System is needed because they can not go on another day. Without the prod of Armageddon those will soon realise there are far better ways to live and view life.

29

What proportion of JW kids stay Witnesses? How about in your cong?

by jwfacts in

the wts is currently growing at about 1.3 % which is similar to the global propulation growth rate.

if all the jw kids stayed as jws then the religion could grow as quickly as it is now without any door knocking.. if in 2005 1.2 billion hours witnessing resulted in the religion only growing at the rate it should be naturally it suggests a lot a kids are leaving, or doorknocking is not having very good results.. of about 100 people born into the wts that i can remember in my congregations in australia about 3/4 of them have left.

is that the same in your congregation?

jwfacts

Clam, it is encouraging to hear that the parents sometimes follow after their children. I have not noticed it, but am certainly hoping for it.
Gill, I think you are right. They tried to bump up the figures by allowing old people to report even if they only do 15 minutes a month.
When there was huge drop off after 1925 apparently they stopped publishing the figures for a few years. This year 80 countries had 0 or negative growth. I don't think they will want to be publishing those sorts of figures for long.

29

What proportion of JW kids stay Witnesses? How about in your cong?

by jwfacts in

the wts is currently growing at about 1.3 % which is similar to the global propulation growth rate.

if all the jw kids stayed as jws then the religion could grow as quickly as it is now without any door knocking.. if in 2005 1.2 billion hours witnessing resulted in the religion only growing at the rate it should be naturally it suggests a lot a kids are leaving, or doorknocking is not having very good results.. of about 100 people born into the wts that i can remember in my congregations in australia about 3/4 of them have left.

is that the same in your congregation?

jwfacts

The WTS is currently growing at about 1.3 % which is similar to the global propulation growth rate. If all the JW kids stayed as JWs then the religion could grow as quickly as it is now without any door knocking.

If in 2005 1.2 billion hours witnessing resulted in the religion only growing at the rate it should be naturally it suggests a lot a kids are leaving, or doorknocking is not having very good results.

Of about 100 people born into the WTS that i can remember in my congregations in Australia about 3/4 of them have left. Is that the same in your congregation?

13

Bankrupting the WTBS best idea for thoes still in.

by vomit in

jw
friends

i am a bit excited about this idea(though maybe people have had it before).

reading topics about people still being "in".

and how they go around on the field.

jwfacts

Love the name vomit and also the ideas.

The WTS must know how many mags are wasted. Publishers report placements and they know how much they print. I wish they would put real figures in the Watchtower like, "we printed 25 million of this issue of the Watchtower, 9 million were placed and 16 million are in recycling bins around the world, ready to be recycled as toilet paper and vomit bags".

37

Would YOU Have Allowed Your Child To Die Instead Of Giving Blood?

by minimus in

jw
friends

be honest.

i believe there was a time we all would've done it or at least say we would've done it.

jwfacts

I would have refused blood, but would have been convinced it was not going to let them die, but was increasing their chance for survival by refusing blood.

57

How Suicide Will Increase Among Jehovah's Witnesses

by metatron in

jw
friends

i'm not a psychologist but a little logic tells you that somethings got to give.. i see too many witnesses who are falling into the "escalating commitment" trap.

your life is a mess, so you find the "truth"!.

next, you commit yourself further by dropping college.

jwfacts

I personally know a number of JW's that have committed suicide. There were quite a few unsuccessful attempts as well. A couple suicided after being d/f, but in general those that get through the first couple of years say they are far happier than when in the WTS.

11

The New System

by sandy in

is there enough scriptural support for the beleif in a paradise here on earth?

i heard somebody say that there isn't.

i curious to here any other thoughts on this.

jwfacts

The WTS claims Rev refers to heaven*** it-2 p. 576 Paradise ***
Eating in “the Paradise of God.” Revelation 2:7 mentions a “tree of life” in “the paradise of God” and that eating from it would be the privilege of the one “that conquers.” Since other promises given in this section of Revelation to such conquering ones clearly relate to their gaining a heavenly inheritance (Re 2:26-28; 3:12, 21), it seems evident that “the paradise of God” in this case is a heavenly one.

It claims that Cor does not refer to earth. *** it-2 p. 576 Paradise ***
This undoubtedly provides the key for understanding Paul’s description of the vision (evidently had by him, since it forms part of his defense of his own apostleship) referred to at 2 Corinthians 12:1-7. Caught away to “the third heaven” (see HEAVEN [Third Heaven]), the vision viewer entered “paradise” and heard unutterable words. That this paradise envisioned could refer to a spiritual state among God’s people, as in the case of fleshly Israel, can be seen from the fact that the Christian congregation was also God’s “field under cultivation,” his spiritual vineyard, rooted in Christ Jesus and bearing fruit to God’s praise.

In the w83 says that Rev refers to heaven as well, but then tries to explain that Luke 23 refers to an earthly paradise.
*** w83 10/15 p. 4 Does the Bible Promise an Earthly Paradise? ***
To such ones who had the hope of being received into heaven, Christ promised: “To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.” (Revelation 2:7; John 16:33; 1 John 5:4) This figurative “paradise of God” is in the invisible heavens.
However, is it correct to assume that heaven is the only paradise set before all of Jesus’ followers? Since the sympathetic evildoer did not conquer the world by pursuing a course of faithfulness to God but was justly being put to death for his wicked deeds, what Paradise did Christ promise him? ...
Therefore the correct translation of Jesus’ words is: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.” A number of Bible translations read this way.
The article then goes on to quote their standard scriptures to attempt to show paradise is on earth.

However, does this make sense? The Jews thought paradise was in heaven. The WTS claims the other two NT references to paradise do not relate to the earth. So it would follow that Jesus words at Luke would not have been understood to relate to the earth either.

11

The New System

by sandy in

is there enough scriptural support for the beleif in a paradise here on earth?

i heard somebody say that there isn't.

i curious to here any other thoughts on this.

jwfacts

Hi,

I have a few scriptures to consider at

http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/earthforever.htm

It is interesting that Muslims and Jews generally believe in paradise, but that it is heavenly. Likewise the NT references to paradise are also in regards to heaven.

Luke 23:42-43) 42 And he went on to say: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.” (Watchtower Doctrine makes this disputable as to whether this is refering to heaven or earth, but is generally understood to mean heaven) (2 Corinthians 12:1-4) 12 I have to boast. It is not beneficial; but I shall pass on to supernatural visions and revelations of [the] Lord. 2 I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know; God knows—was caught away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows— 4 that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak. (Revelation 2:7) 7 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’(this refers to the anointed so is in heaven)