Van Gogh, I see what you are saying, and to a certain extent, I agree. But on the other hand, is all war unjust? I think that in the case of almost all wars, they were unjust, but what about world war 2? If Hitler had not been stopped, he would have continued killing millions of people, mainly jews and east-Europeans. Let`s say for a second, that all of (christian) western Europe and the U.S had remained neutral, Germany would (probably?) have defeated the USSR. And then he had ethnically cleansed huge territories of eastern-Europeans, and "relocated" them to the massgraves. Millions of people. Wouldn`t the christian thing to do, have been to attacked Germany? I think it would. I don`t think the Bible teaches complete neutrality in all situations. And as someone stated, the passage in Isiaiah refers to a future state, the "ressurected" Jerusalem. And the passage "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword”, isn`t really a command, it is a statement of a fact.
Hellrider
JoinedPosts by Hellrider
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74
True Christians neutral in War?
by Van Gogh intoday i re-established contact with an older true - friend who is still a jw.
in the fifty years that he has been baptized he invested a lot of time and effort in helping the needy and elderly, loyally taking up responsibilities in the org as an elder, organizer, speaker and shepherd.
he is still out there as a lowly publisher, tirelessly going from door to door with only his bible.
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94
607 bce or 587 bce
by jw injerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
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Hellrider
Rassilon:
If ALL the other secular sources for dating in the Neo-Babylonian period are so in error, the HOW can anyone feel comfortable with the secular resources which identify 539 as Babylon's fall?
You are absolutely right! And here is the fantastic irony of it all, which makes the WTBTS and the JWs look like the biggest no-mathematical-skill-idiots in the world: The 539 (and 537)-date is a derived date! It is derived from other events in the secular chronology (!!!),of the events that happened around the year 600 bc! And what does that mean? It means that the WTBTS have used the chronology that says that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 to establish the dates 537 and 539 (which they, in their endless ignorance refer to as "pivotal dates") - to establish a chronology (which isn`t even a chronology) that says that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bc! It`s like saying that "if I have a set of numbers, 1 - 20, and then count from 3 to 15, I will have added 13 numbers. And then I can count back, oh, say 18 numbers, and still get back to 3...). And this is what is funny about the 697-thing. It`s not like other themes in the literalist JW-view of the Bible. About dinosaur-bones or C-14-dating, all of those things can be said to be "Gods way of testing our faith by planting what seems to be evidence of evolution" (or whatever). The fun thing about 607 is that it is a mathematical and logical impossibility!
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94
607 bce or 587 bce
by jw injerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
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Hellrider
Hellrider
No it is not a lie as you stupidly and dogmatically state. The fact is that even the Jonsson hypothesis recognized in a partial way that the seventy years was a period of servitude, exile and desolation of the land from the Fall of the Temple and Jerusalem until the Return under Cyrus.
What I claimed to be a lie, was your claim that "Josephus supports the 607-date". Which is, to anyone that can read, an obvious lie. You can read book 10 of Antiquities of the jews here:
http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-10.htm
...and you won`t find much there that supports the WTBTS-view on this, ha ha. Josephus doesn`t support neither the Societys view, nor the view of modern historians, probably because he didn`t have access to all the information that is available today. Josephus says Evil-Merodach reigned 18 years, Neriglissar 40 years. Including Nebuchadnezzars 42 years, that gies us...well, at least 100 years. That`s a little more than 70 years, and it certainly doesn`t support the Societys views on...anything, and Scholar knows this very well. So when you say that it does, you lie! To purposely say something that one knows is untrue, is to lie. And you know this.
Celebrated WT scholars by means of the WT publications have always use the regnal data of not only Nebuchadnezzer but the last king of Judah, Zedekiah
LoL, of course they have, why shouldn`t they, as they have tampered with that regnal list too! Using one corrupted list to support another doesn`t get us any closer to the truth, believe me.
Anyway, discussing this with you, is ridicolous. And some of the people on this forum who knows most about this issue, have been over this with you before, particularly in this thread:
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94
607 bce or 587 bce
by jw injerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
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Hellrider
Also the historian Josephus supports the biblical interpretation made by celebrated WT scholars.
That is a damn lie, and celebrated scholar jw knows it. We`ve been thru that exact point once before, and the "apostates" showed clearly that Josephus had some strange ideas about Babylonian chronology, ideas that supported neither modern historical knowledge about Babylonian chronology (included the parts of it that the WTS agrees with), neither would Josephus ideas support the 607-date. And scholar knows this, hence, he is dishonest.
Apostates fall back on a unsupported date 609 BCE for the beginning of the seventy years when Jonsson himself admitted the possibility of 605 as a likely candidate. So, apostates do not know what date should commence this vital piece of biblical history.
...and of course scholar now tries to just ignore the most embarassing part of his whole "chronology", the fact that the destruction of Jerusalem occured in Nebuchadnezzars 18th year. This is not just a matter of a couple of years between 609, 607 and 605 (which in itself looks harmless), but a matter of 20 missing years, as they want to place the beginning of Nebuchadnezzars reign to 625 bc. Not to mention, of course, that it is completely ridicolous to be attacking the "Johnson hypothesis" for the "uncertainty" of this "hypothesis", as it admits that it is not perfectly clear when Jerusalem was destroyed (587, 586 or thereabout).
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94
607 bce or 587 bce
by jw injerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
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Hellrider
Have you ever watched the history channel or discovery channel ( they found the KING).
Discovery and National Geographis is pretty much everything I watch on TV. Which king is it you are talking about? On fact, what on earth are you talking about? (really).
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94
607 bce or 587 bce
by jw injerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
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Hellrider
This was written by an apostate .
What was written by an apostate? Those articles that you posted? I don`t think soooooo.
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23
Why can't JWs STOP PREDICTING THINGS!
by plmkrzy injust ranting .
as it was in the days of noah, so it will be at the coming of the son of man.
37but as the days of noah were, so shall also the coming of the son of man be.
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Hellrider
If you asked a JW this question, they would of course deny that they have ever predicted anything. All along the literal generation-interpretation the idea was that it would happen "before the generation that saw 1914 had passed away". And when accused of making predictions, they would then say "hey, we`re not saying the day or the hour, only Jehovah knows that" with a goodd conscience. Of course, even then, it is clear that there definitely was an underlying prediction (that it had to happen before the the literal generation had passed away, which meant before 1994 or whatever). And then there was 1975 and 1925, of course, but none of the young ones remember 1975, and the older ones just pretends it never happened. My mother said "but that was some individual wtinesses speculating", and she even believed that (even though she was totally into it in 1875, and, from what my older siblings says, totally nuts that year). But at least technically, they can now say that they have stopped predicting (since the -95-change)...
Of course, that doesn`t help much. Once a false prophet, always a false prophet. But JWs will deny that these prophecies even ever occured. The brains never worked well on planet JW.
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66
Do you think a JW childhood is abusive?
by Konrad West ini had a long discussion the other day with my new flatmate, who it turns out has studied with jws and thinks they're wonderful, about my view that being raised a jw is psychologically abusive.
being indoctrinated with the concept of jehovah killing people who don't do what he says and being scared of losing your friends and family if disobedient is, in my view, a very unhealthy thing for a child.
any thoughts?
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Hellrider
Being indoctrinated with the concept of Jehovah killing people who don't do what he says and being scared of losing your friends and family if disobedient is, in my view, a very unhealthy thing for a child.
Only if its not true. If it is true then it would be abusive not to indoctrintate!Well, thank God it`s true then...
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94
607 bce or 587 bce
by jw injerusalem 607 bce vindicated.
why jehovahs witnesses are right for sticking to the bibles chronology of 607 bce for the destruction of jerusalem.
arguments for 587 bce are scripturally flawed, causing four bible prophecies to fail.
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Hellrider
[That is I am assuming it is a WTS paper
No, I don`t think so. Even the WTBTS knows that the 607-date is BS ( I think).
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66
Do you think a JW childhood is abusive?
by Konrad West ini had a long discussion the other day with my new flatmate, who it turns out has studied with jws and thinks they're wonderful, about my view that being raised a jw is psychologically abusive.
being indoctrinated with the concept of jehovah killing people who don't do what he says and being scared of losing your friends and family if disobedient is, in my view, a very unhealthy thing for a child.
any thoughts?
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Hellrider
Being indoctrinated with the concept of Jehovah killing people who don't do what he says and being scared of losing your friends and family if disobedient is, in my view, a very unhealthy thing for a child. Any thoughts?
I used to sit in the classroom looking around at my classmates, thinking about the fact that according to what we believed, they would all be massacred in Armageddon.
Of course the JW-religion is unhealthy for children.