Posts by Hellrider

68

Sorry, another 607 question? I'm confused.

by lost_light06 in

im trying to figure something out concerning the wts 607-1914 chronology that has me confused.

i thought they based the chronology on when jerusalem was destroyed.

however, the following is taken from the daniel book and it seems to base it on something else.

Hellrider

568/67

Jeffro, ok, thanks. I guess I hadn`t learned enough about the Societys juggling with numbers, tablets and dates. So basically, they dismiss the astronomical tablet for 568/67 but accept the one for 522. The arbitrariness in that should be evident to everyone, even Scholar himself. And I guess they don`t even care that these two tablets confirm eachother, and confirm the chronology that Scholar wants to dismiss.

But Scholar: Don`t you see that even though you have the tablet for 522, you still have to rely on Babylonian chronology, and the lengths of reigns set by the secular chronology?Yes, the tablet for 522 gets you back to Cambysses II first year in 529, but no further than that! It is this secular chronology that sets the reign of Cyrus II to be from 539 (accession year) to 530. This means that the tablet for 522 in itself doesn`t set the date for the fall of Babylon to have occured in 539 BC! - this date is still set by the entirety of the secular chronology, which sets the length of Cyrus IIs reign to have lasted 9 years! The date 539 still relies on the chronology that is established by using both the 522-tablet and the 568/7 -tablet, as well as the tablets that established the length of reigns of the kings! You want to dismiss the chronology that sets the length of reigns, ok. What if secular chronology suddenly decided "holy moly, we made a mistake, Nabonidus reign lasted 4 years longer than we thought, setting the fall of Babylon to 535, and Cyrus II only reigned from 535 to 530". That wouldn`t be so cool, would it, celebrated scholar jw? So whether you like it or not, the Society have to rely on secular chronology, the same chronology that they so eagerly dismiss, when it suits them. You have no case, celebrated scholar jw. Both you and the celebrated watchtower-scholars of the Watchtower Society suck!

68

Sorry, another 607 question? I'm confused.

by lost_light06 in

im trying to figure something out concerning the wts 607-1914 chronology that has me confused.

i thought they based the chronology on when jerusalem was destroyed.

however, the following is taken from the daniel book and it seems to base it on something else.

Hellrider

Hey Scholar, try this one on for size:

Fact: Your 537-date (correct or not, we will leave that side for a second, although I know also this date is disputable, as Jeffro has showned), which is crucial to your "chronology" is derived from secular chronology in the following way:

1) Nebuchadnezzars 37th year was fixed by an astronomical tablet to have been in 568/567. The Bible (!!!) says that Nebuchadnezzar ruled for 43 years. Correct? This means that Nebuchadnezzar started his reign in 605 BC, whether you like that or not. Now, you can of course try to argue against that, by claiming that the astronomical tablets are wrong/tampered with/incomplete or whatever, but in that case, you won`t get to 539 and 537. This is because it is secular chronology that gets you from Nebuchadnezzars reign (which ended in 562) to 539, as secular chronology sets the reigns of the kings:

Amel-Marduk 562-560 BC

Nergal-Sharezer 560-556 BC

Labashi-Marduk 556 BC

Nabonidus 556-539 BC

...landing us nicely in 539 BC. Now, the question is: Which of the lengths of the kings of these reigns is it you want to change? Changing either one of them takes you away from 539, not closer to it! So no, you can`t change any of the reigns of the kings after Nebuchadnezzar, at least not without also changing Nebuchadnezzars reign (which is what the WTS wants to do, but they don`t realise that they then have to change the entire chronology that got them to 539 and 537 in the first place). You can of course claim that the astronomical tablet that set the date of Nebuchadnezzars 37th year to be in 568/67 to be 20 years off! Move Nebuchadnezzars reign 20 years back in time. By doing that, you have (the infamous) 20 missing years, the 20 years of a hypothetical king noone has heard of, or some terrible errors in the length of reigns of the kings following Nebuchadnezzar. Now, this would be pretty miracolous in the first place: That the entire academic community would both have missed an entire king, or the length of reigns of one or several kings, and misplaced Nebuchadnezzars reign by 20 years. You can of course claim that this is the case (even though it isn`t), but guess what: Then your "pivotal date" of 539 and 537 are just guessing! You will no longer have any secular backing for your theories! You cannot use the same chronology to both establish AND dismiss a date! Or in other words: You can`t use one chronology to establish a date, and then dismiss that entire chronology because you want to establish another date (within the same timespan) that is in conflict with the (first) chronology! WTF!? Are you RETARDED!?!?! Don`t you see that? What the hell is wrong with you? Even a 12-yearold should be able to see that!

16

"Letter-preaching"

by Hellrider in

the thread above "help, my jw-mom is pioneering at the age of 76..." made me think of this:.

my grandma on dads side was a very devout jw.

unfortunately, she couldn`t walk very well, partly because of obesity.

Hellrider

I think it`s really cool that the WTS allows people to do some less shitty, unpaid (!!) work than the shitty unpoaid (!!) door-preaching-work. They are very fortunate people, the Bethelites and pioneers...

82

Latest News In JW Sex Scandal

by Kenneson in

it's the top news at http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_178173758.html .

see "boy in minister sex scandal speaks to cbs.

investigators compiling mountain of evidence against suspect.

Hellrider

In Cano's home police siezed several computer systems, memory sticks containing hundreds of pictures, and numerous DVDs. All will be reviewed by experts.

Investigators also located a graphic videotape which they said was shot by Cano at Chicago's O'Hare Airport as he followed boys and men into the bathroom with a hidden camera, taping them as they used the urinals.

And just in time for the conventions. I hope there are newspaper-stands nearby all the dcs, so that any jw that dares sneak off to get a paper and a hot dog sees that pedos face on the front pages. I bet they`ll take off those name-tags real quick, much better to pretend to just be an average business man, lol.

16

"Letter-preaching"

by Hellrider in

the thread above "help, my jw-mom is pioneering at the age of 76..." made me think of this:.

my grandma on dads side was a very devout jw.

unfortunately, she couldn`t walk very well, partly because of obesity.

Hellrider

Omg, so they are still doing it. Ha ha. And you can be sure of this, that if you receive a letter in your mailbox from a jw, and it is handwritten, then the person will have written hundreds, perhaps thousands of copies by hand! Could you even imagine a more ridicolous waste of time and effort? If the people who wrote copies of the Bible 1500 years ago came around today, and saw that there were people copying letters by handwriting, even though we have xerox-machines, they would probably go "what, are you nuts! If we had these back in my days, I`d pop those papers into the copymachine and go to the bar or something!" . And thanks Blondie, I had no idea that this had been adressed in the magasines, and that there were instructions around how to do it. I assume that those doing it get a kind of masochistic kick out of suffering their way thru that tedious handwriting-work, working for Gods organisation here on earth. Paying for their ticket into paradise by handwriting till their fingers go sore. Jesus christ.

59

SO, What happened to : "the generation will not pass away" idea ???????

by The_Replacement in

okay, growing up a jw in the 70's 80's and early 90's, all we heard about was how the generation of 1914 will not pass away,(much like witnesses in the 60's and early 70's all heard about 1975) (what a great parallel) conventions, watchtower articles, public talks, endless studies and of course every issue of the awake magazine had it on the inside cover, it was everywhere, brothers, sisters and elders were absolutely sure about this, the society constantly mentioned it in our kingdom ministry (service), it was everywhere.

then with the change in november 1995, it just kinda disappeared and became unimportant.. does the society even mention "this generation will not pass away" anymore ?????.

seems to me, that the past 10 years, it has hardly been mentioned anywhere anymore.. what do you think ??

Hellrider

Did you notice that the Society did not say – We have at times speculated, but “Jehovah’s people have at times speculated.” The blame for a lifetime of misinterpreting the scriptures and making false prophecies in God’s name is shared with the membership.

More than shared - it was given. There's never any "we" - it's always someone else - no matter how far you dig into the wtbts, there won't be anyone who admits to response-ability.
fork tongued

sheds it's skin

characteristically elusive

always eating dirt

doesn't have legs to stand on

YES!

The Watchtower has NO BACKBONE! They can`t even admit it when they screwed up. It`s sickening!

16

"Letter-preaching"

by Hellrider in

the thread above "help, my jw-mom is pioneering at the age of 76..." made me think of this:.

my grandma on dads side was a very devout jw.

unfortunately, she couldn`t walk very well, partly because of obesity.

Hellrider

The thread above "Help, my jw-mom is pioneering at the age of 76..." made me think of this:

My grandma on dads side was a very devout jw. Unfortunately, she couldn`t walk very well, partly because of obesity. She was a short, very fat woman, shaped like a barrel, so walking door-to-door wasn`t easy for her. Because of this, she came up with something else: She wrote letters, in which she presented our religion. This was in the 70s and 80s (she died in -89), and I don`t think she had ever heard of a copymachine, cause she handwrote every letter (!!). I assume cop-machines existed back then, so imagine the waste of time! Perhaps she had heard of copy machines, but that she wanted them to be handwritten, so the reder could see that she had made an effort, I don`t know, or maybe it was some masochistic work-for-Jehovahs-organisation-thing, I don`t know. They were all the same letter, she knew it by heart, after having written it thousands of times. Then she just followed the phone book, and sent these letters to people. Over the years, she must have written several thousand letters. I remember well her desk in the livingroom, stacked with paper and finnished, enveloped letters. Sometimes I helped her with licking the stamps, I guess the taste of glue got to her after a few thousand letters... I think she actually managed to start a few bookstudies by doing this too. But just imagine writing the same letter thousands of times. Imagine the self-indoctrination, lol, like a little kid caught doing something bad at school, and being forced to write "I will not bring my slingshot to school ever again" a 100 times on the blackboard. Anyone else here also had grandmas doing this?

6

WILL THERE BE BACKPAIN IN PARADRISE EARTH?

by badboy in

jw
friends

.

the human skelethon is built in such a way that backpain etc are commonplace among humans.. will this be solved in paradrise earth?

Hellrider

Backpain, no. Backpacking, yes.

15

No more JW religious classes in schools!

by fair dinkim in

just heard from a friend whose husband is an elder that a letter was read to the congregation from wbts stating that effective immediately "no religious instruction by jws in schools" or words to that effect.

here in australia they are called "scripture classes" and most schools conduct these as part of the school curriculum.

usually a member of the cong is assigned to conduct the lesson with jw kids in local school.

Hellrider

When I was a kid, from the 1st - 6th grade, I was excused from the religion-classes (back then in the early 80s, the subject was called "christianity" even, so there was absolutely no way I could participate, lol ). The only problem was, there was only two JW-kids at my school, me and my little sister, and she was three grades under me. So basically, I was on my own, those classes, and I`d hang out in the playground, sitting on the swing, all alone, with no supervision. I guess the school didn`t see it as their responsibility, as there was only one kid, myself. If I had been a rebellious kid, I could have easily ran away from school, get hit by a car, beaten up by older kids or whatever. I always used to feel like a real dork when I left the classroom for those classes. I was "special" (blaaaah), and no kid wants that, they wanna be like everyone else. By the 7th grade, my dad had died, and I started having the religion-classes. I was no longer that "special" (thank god).

68

Sorry, another 607 question? I'm confused.

by lost_light06 in

im trying to figure something out concerning the wts 607-1914 chronology that has me confused.

i thought they based the chronology on when jerusalem was destroyed.

however, the following is taken from the daniel book and it seems to base it on something else.

Hellrider

Scholar jw:

Biblical chronology based upon necessary secular data avoids this problem by simply factoring historic events such as the seventy years

I have spent the last three or four posts explaining you why this results in an inlogical, mathematical impossibility, but you simply don`t understand it, and I think I know why. Scholar jw, I am curious about this: When you meet an argument that you can`t answer, because this argument destroys your entire worldview, does it then make you feel perfectly a-okey and at ease and with peace of mind when you simply ignore the argument? Inside your head, does it work like this? Are you the kind of personality-type that can look reality in the eye, and simply block it out, ignore it, pretend it isn`t there, and pretending it so strongly that it actually isn`t there! I think you are. I think that if someone invented a time machine, and we transported you back to 586 and placed you in the basement of the Temple, when you heard the battle going on outside and Nebuchadnezzars catapults started bombarding the Temple, and the rocks started falling from the ceiling, the minute before it came crashing down, you would go: "This is not happening... mumble mumble ...the celebrated wt scholars... mumble mumble ....our eventbased chronology...7o years of desolation and servitude starting in the fall of 607...methodology and interpretation equals chronology... mumble mumble ". And the whole thing would come crashing down, and still you wouldn`t change your mind.

In a way, I admire this. It really exemplifies the power of the mind, the power of imagination over reality. I admire that fact, that man can convince himself of the craziest of ideas, stare reality in the eye and ignore it, stare even a simple math-puzzle in the eye, and proudly proclaim: "In this case, 2 pluss 2 = 5". With no hesitation. This is even crazier than believing that the moon is made of swiss cheese, and that there is a man living in the holes in the cheese. You sir, have offered me whole new perspective on insanity! It`s a beautiful thing.