https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zgds4z-h2i.
transcript below (with key points of interest bolded):.
please open your bibles to phil.
"It occurs to me that the "as a whole" qualifier is utterly meaningless."
murderers. just Hitler and his higher ups and The SS and all the other crazy soldiers who had a
bent mind. But the whole German population weren't crazy and sadistic. Even some of Hitler's
higher ups tried to kill him or have him killed. So all of the German government weren't corrupted.
So the " as a whole " statement means absolutely zilch.
i had a discussion with a current jw member of +- 30 years, we got chatting about how you can be sure your faith is right and what checks can be done.
i then suggested looking at ex members view points and literature.
her response was her "i am not someone who takes initiative to look online at stuff, i doesn't feel my personality needs me look at outside view points" in summary she was saying her personality type is not interested in looking at other views.
Oubliette,
"Funny, they pound on stranger's doors wanting THEM to question their faith/beliefs, et cetera, but the average JW will absolutely NOT do the same thing themselves."
That's because they already have the truth and don't need to look at anything else. Ahemmmm!
I've wondered that same thing many times Oubliette. It makes my head hurt.
i wanted to go and to do it for jehovah and jesus and what they've done for me.
i wanted it to be a personal thing between them and i. i haven't been to a meeting in close to a year, not that anyone notices or cares.
this isn't my first stint away, and nobody would notice or care if i was found dead.
I went with my wife to the memorial last night. I went in a few minutes before it started and we all had
to leave right after it was over because of the Spanish congregation coming later. I hadn't been to
a meeting on in field service in a while so I was kind of anxious about attending. But I noticed that one
thing was stressed very hard and that was the fact that only the anointed should partake of the
emblems. That was stated about 3 different times . Even in the prayer given by an elder right before
the wine was passed it was mentioned again and during the prayer he tried to be cute and said some-
thing about those who had partaken in the past that weren't of the anointed and it caused a giggle
among several who had their heads bowed. I have never in my 57 years of attending meetings have
I heard anybody try to be funny during a prayer. I guess they didn't want the emblem partakers to
increase once again.
this is a reminder for some, and fresh bible guidance for new arrivals to this site.. have you been "witnessing" today, or are you planning to?.
revelation 12:17 - ".......and have the work of bearing witness to jesus.".
acts 8:16 - ".......been baptized in the name of the lord jesus.".
As I mentioned in another post, at the assembly last weekend the name Jesus was used in the prayers
only. So that was 3 times total for the whole day. He was not mentioned in any parts but we were admon-
ished to turn down 6 figure salaries and to stay away from massage parlors and strip clubs.
one of the constant themes of the literature and of the well meaning witnesses who regurgitate it to those that have left or are in the process of leaving is this:.
you are filled with pride.
you think you know better than jehovah's organization.
Bradford's quote:
" the one single religion that god approves, and that everyone else is wrong (and going to die!"
There is a sister at the hall who would always finish her comment with this quote " if they
don't listen to us at the door they are going to be destroyed." I was amazed that she could put
that ending line in almost all her comments regardless of the topic or subject of the meeting .
It was like she relished the thought that untold billions were going to die if people didn't listen to her.
She would almost be grinning when she said it like she had some kind of power to mete out God's
wrath. It was sickening for me to hear her. If she and a bunch more people at the hall would be my
immediate neighbors in the new system I would rather go ahead and die now. There are a bunch of
JW friends I could live by but I'm just saying.
latest tv.org video.
only been mentally out 4 months, but lett's concluding words made me want to vomit.
the propaganda is thick.
I listened to the last several minutes of the above video with Lett. I already started
simplifying my life by living the life Jehovah gave me here on his earth. I have never
really, my whole adult life, enjoyed going to 3 meetings a week field service on
weekends, studying for all the meetings etc. Some brothers and sisters are really
gungho and deeply involved. I went to the meetings and went in service but I began
to realize that there is a whole world to enjoy right outside my front door. Jehovah
created all of these beautiful things in nature, squirrels running across my yard, birds
flying around, gardens to tend if that's your desire but it seemed like you are running
around in in field ministry to save other people ( so you won't be blood guilty) but
you don't have time to spend with your family. My wife and I had 4 children and that
costs money. I don't mind that. That's what money is for. But if everybody simplified
their lives like Lett suggests and work part time and pioneer who is going to have
valuable assets to give to anything? Some JW's may say " we will have time to plant
gardens and do such things in the new system". So if live to be 80 that means I
spent 75 years going to peoples door who don't want me there anyway and adhere
to rules and regulations with no Bible basis, and the doctrines change on a whim and
you need to hustle to keep up with the nulite. I know this sounds like a disjointed
rant but I'm not very good at putting my thoughts down on paper. I usually blurt out
my thoughts when my crap-o-meter gets peaked and then I get funny looks from
elders who think I'm trying to cause trouble. I was not trying to cause anybody any
trouble or draw anybody away from what they believe. Believe what you like. When
I work a puzzle I expect all the pieces to fit. I guess I'm weird that way. If someone
can truly explain that the 144,000 in Rev 14 is a literal number from the context of
that chapter I'm willing to listen. The GB says it is a literal number. I can't see it but
I bet if I wrote them a letter and told them I didn't believe it I'm sure there would be
some repercussions. It may be literal, frankly I don't care and don't see it changing
my life one way or the other but if you tell me if I don't believe it and I'm going to
die as an unbeliever cause you say so it irks me real bad. I'm done for now. I feel
better. Sorry for the double space. I tried to fix it but I can't. Didn't go to compu-
ter classes. Didn't have time because I had to get ready for the meetings. LOL
i just wanted to add another piece to the puzzle that is the exile from the organization.
a little background about myself first.
i was not born into the religion, technically.
Welcome from me also Bradford. I've been in "the truth" going towards 60 years.
Take a piece of advice from The Searcher and me. Stay clear of any meeting of
an official type. They don't care what you have to say they just want a little more info
to hang you. I've never been the recipient of a JC meeting but my wife and I sat
in on one with our 15 yr old son. He took a sip or two from a beer at a concert and
one of the other young JW brothers felt compelled to tell the elders about it. They
all tasted it and it was wrong. They were all underage. I was told about it from my
son so to me it was over. Big deal he tasted some beer. The elders weren't as
forgiving as me because they wanted ALL the details. We go to the meeting and
these elder brothers who I had known for years took on a different persona. They
weren't the helpful and loving type I had recognized in the past. One of them asked
my son if that was all he ever did wrong . What a question! If I admitted everything
I did wrong by the time I was 15 I'd still be making a list to this day. But anyway one
of the elders accused him of lying. He said we know and we have witnesses of
past sins. I thought really I had no knowledge of these additional wrongs. He kept
badgering to come clean and they would be easier on him. After several minutes
of this crap and my sons repeatedly denying any other sins the elder gave up and
said " we really don't have any other accusations or witnesses. We just wanted to
see if you would admit to anything else". My blood pressure must have surely
spiked. I was mad. So this elder flat out lied to try to get more info. I told an elder
friend of mine about it and told him that elder lied and my friend said " well some-
times they have to do that to find out other things. Went my son got 18 he never
went to another meeting. He's in his mid 30's now. The elder that was lying faded
out of the truth and was living with another woman. I heard they are married now.
Bradford, I know how you feel and what you want to say but if you want to
fade and keep your family relationships in tack, I would steer clear of a frontal
assault on the doctrines. You won't win unless you count showing them up on some
crazy doctrines and you getting kicked out is a win. You can show them some-
thing wrong with a particular belief but leave it at one or two and let it simmer.
That's what I did but I got tired of doing that because whatever I said was wrong
even if I showed them and reasoned with from the Bible.
i'm new to this forum.. i was raised in " the truth" from age six and now i am in my mid 60's.
my wife was born in " the truth" and is very strong in the religion.
i have had many experiences during my lifetime with the other members of several congregations.
As I mentioned above I went to the assembly with my wife because she was
upset she was going alone. I missed the opening prayer and I left before the
closing prayer. But at the end of the baptism talk the prayer ended in " in Jesus
name we pray". That was the ONLY time I heard the name Jesus during the
entire assembly. I thought that was odd and very noticeable. But a speaker in
the afternoon part did bring out that "some brothers ( for the millionth time in
recent history) had fallen spiritually ill, viewing pornography and lo and behold
going to strip clubs and getting a massage by a woman gyrating on him with a
lap dance." I kid you not that was his words. I felt embarrased for the mere
fact that he even said this in front of teenagers and children. What was the point
of saying that? Shock value? I have seen episodes on 20/20 type of shows were
JW elders have killed their wives and sometimes children. I've never heard that
from the platform and nor do I need to. I know people do bad things but if they
fade away from the WTBTS I wonder if the JW's think you are automatically
going to go to strip clubs. One Presiding Overseer we had who was always saying
" I did this and I did that", was giving a part one night and says " we don't let our
young boys watch just anything on tv. I don't want them to come to me sometime
and say, daddy what's a threesome?." Puhleez! Did he have to say that? What's
with all the sexual innuendo from the platform? I like to hear stories and accounts
from the Bible talked about from the platform not some speakers hangup about
talking about sexual problems or perhaps immoral wrongs. Yes, I already know
Jehovah would frown on threesomes and lap dances. It seems some speakers
like to draw attention to their own personal fantasies perhaps. I don't intend to
do these things so I want to hear something with substance.
i'm new to this forum.. i was raised in " the truth" from age six and now i am in my mid 60's.
my wife was born in " the truth" and is very strong in the religion.
i have had many experiences during my lifetime with the other members of several congregations.
i'm new to this forum.. i was raised in " the truth" from age six and now i am in my mid 60's.
my wife was born in " the truth" and is very strong in the religion.
i have had many experiences during my lifetime with the other members of several congregations.
I'm new to this forum.
I was raised in " the truth" from age six and now I am in my mid 60's. My wife was born in " the truth" and is very strong in the religion. I have had many experiences during my lifetime with the other members of several congregations. Some experiences were great and others not so much.
I won't be revealing or saying anything you haven't heard before but I came to the reality that things just didn't seem right a long time ago. To keep peace within my own household and the friends that we associated with I just felt that, stay with the status quo.
After all the changes in doctrine and the WTBTS tv show I can't take it anymore. I told my wife it looks like any other tv evangelical show. She's not happy with me since I just quit going to meetings cold turkey several weeks ago. She says I'm being picky and she said she doesn't know me anymore. I won't elaborate on all my misgivings at this time so I'll keep this post short although I will be back to comment later. But I will relate this.
Many weeks ago during the book study Draw Close to Jehovah, there was a question asked by the conductor. He asked " how do we know that the 144,000 mentioned in Rev 14 is a literal number ?". I thought to myself I sure want to hear the answer and hopefully from someone who had been in for a long time.
Well fortunately for me it was a brother in his mid 70's and he was born into the truth. His answer was " because at the beginning of the chapter it says " The Lamb " and and it is a single Lamb and thus it is a single literal number of one. Therefore the number of 144,000 would also have to be a literal number. " So the conductor says that's right, we have to go by the context. And I thought what the hell? Yeah, let's go by the context. " The Lamb" is not a literal lamb and further down in the same chapter it says that an angel will take a sickle which by the way would not be a literal sickle but also symbolic .
This post is not short like I hoped. But I will tell you that I asked 2 different elders and a ministerial servant to explain how the 144,000 is a literal number by using the context of Rev 14. Each one of them told me you can't. I'll admit I am a little dumb sometimes but I'm not stupid. There is a difference. I'll be back here later and let off a little more pressure.
