Hey Gumby - that's one of my favourite songs! I used to wonder what it meant listening to it also (I love it more for the music, but even tho I didn't understand the lyrics properly, they still grabbed me, maybe the way it's sung). But now you have written the words down I kind of agree with Sad emo. Funny, when I read the words I actually thought of Jesus and wondered how much the bible misrepresents the very human aspects of him - as this song tries to convey? (not that I am saying the song is about Jesus)
zensim
JoinedPosts by zensim
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29
What do these song lyrics mean?
by gumby inhey my fellow brothers and sister in the lord....i need some help in figuring out the meaning to this song.. it by five for fighting and it's called superman(it ain't easy) i'm stumped and i love to sing and play the song on my gee-tar.. here's the lyrics.
i cant stand to fly.
im not that naive.
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126
Homeopathy popular in Jehovah's Witnesses ?
by Tigerman inis homeopathy ( the treatment of a disease using, in small doses, drugs that produce symtoms like those of the disease so that one's natural immune system can fight off the disease ) popular among active jw's ?
my son who was raised as a jw has a large ( adult male palm size ) fatty growth on his back.
his jw mother is treating him with homeopathy, as is a so called doctor.
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zensim
Ackack: I did understand Randi's explanation, but I don't have to buy it anymore than you have to buy my belief that alternative remedies do work. How much have you looked into the supporting evidence of many alternative methodologies? I have looked into both sides extensively and am happy to use both - but just because in one situation modern medicine is more effective, doesn't mean that alternative methods are completely ineffectual and vice versa.
I don't believe however that there is a one answer solution to any problem - HEY! - that's why I am not a witness anymore!!!!
Each person is a complex complex COMPLEX design of known and unknown quantities. And even the 'known' is constantly being expanded upon, recognising that some 'knowns' were erroneous etc. What works for one person will not necessarily work for another. Unfortunately, most medicine practices - sometimes including homeopathy - tend to only look at the symptoms. It is always the case, with any medical professional, of guesswork, detective work and isolating possible causes. Two people may present with exactly the same symptoms and yet the root cause may be so totally different.
That's why homeopathy might work in one person's case, who then goes on to religiously expouse the benefits of this miracle cure, but then not work for the next person who has the same symptoms and is latching on with understandable hope and expectation. When they are bitterly disappointed they then dismiss it as quackery.
I'm all for science, but it has it's place alongside the mysteries of the universe, not held in higher regard. I am too conscious that humans think they are right and have all the answers and then time proves them wrong.
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Homeopathy popular in Jehovah's Witnesses ?
by Tigerman inis homeopathy ( the treatment of a disease using, in small doses, drugs that produce symtoms like those of the disease so that one's natural immune system can fight off the disease ) popular among active jw's ?
my son who was raised as a jw has a large ( adult male palm size ) fatty growth on his back.
his jw mother is treating him with homeopathy, as is a so called doctor.
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zensim
Dr Mike - how can that video be put forward as a proper balanced rational discussion of the subject when all he does is mock, make jokes, has a voice dripping with disdain and every second sentence is "I told you it gets sillier and sillier". He is feeding his audience by emotion, not by even reason.
Do you believe in vaccination? Modern day vaccination is based on similar principles as homeopathy.
Science today concedes a lot of things that once were in the domain of 'quackery' - they know that there are a lot of things that work - even if they can't explain why yet.
At the end of the day, even if it is just in the person's mind (and we all know the placebo effect is a proven anomaly) then what's the harm if the cure is effected? My only concern, with anything (this applies to witness teaching or anything else any of us choose to replace it) is whether someone is open to other alternatives?
Tigerman: In my experience, homeopathy is no more popular amongst the witnesses then it is anywhere else in the world. In fact, I know a lot of witnesses who are probably more sceptical or fearful of anything alternative than the general population. But if some kind of census was done I would hazard a guess that it is probably a similar ratio of people who use it in the org as in the general pop.
Me? I do a bit of everything. I used to be very much into alternative medicine and for the most part still am. However, when alternative medicine can't give me all the answers I am happy to use science. And a lot of it has come full circle, with western medicine/science now backing up alternative remedies and now incorporating them (unfortunately, science had to develop even more before it was able to recognise what was truth all along). I take the wholistic approach, use mainstream (modern) and alternative (old or even ancient) medicine and look at not just the body by the mind and emotions also - everything is synergistic. On top of that throw in a good big dose of common sense. By all means - encourage a biopsy - that would be one of my first steps!
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Where are you in your recovery process?
by Nicolas inhi everyone and happy new year.
it's been a long time since i posted here, i've been lurking for a while too but now i would like to share my experience.
i would also like to hear your experience.
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zensim
I really think so much depends on your experiences growing up eg what your family was like, how they interpreted the 'truth', the witness mindset and culture of the day (ie, how old you are) and the witness mindset/culture of your country (I think here in Aus things aren't necessarily as extreme as, say, the US) and even your congregation. I came from quite a liberal cong - in fact it tended to be looked a bit down upon by other congs in the state because it was considered the more 'materialistic and worldly cong' (basically the brothers had nice cars, were a bit more affluent (which was also representative of the socio-economic suburb) and the young ones had a 'life' eg would go to concerts, the occasional nightclub etc).
And then it also depends on your own personality and then how you were treated as a witness - were you df'd, did you da yourself in a grand 'up yours' gesture, did you fade away, do some people still speak to you, how much family and friends do you still have on the inside etc etc etc.
My personality style is that I did a very quick fade (3 months) literally from the time my first strong doubts appeared. I then spent a whole year on the computer exploring so many different beliefs, conspiracy theories (don't go there unless you get off on paranoia), and also spent a lot of time in emotional therapy. So I did it all very quickly but VERY intensely. That was me - I don't necessarily suggest that for everyone because at times it almost killed me.
I guess it boils down to a simple analogy for most people - do you prefer to pull the bandaid off really quickly or give it a soak and take it off real slow? There is no one way that is better - just what's best for you.
And yep, I live in the present moment as much as I can. Leaving the org has given me more gratitude for life (how ironic considering they are supposed to be teaching about god?) so much so that now I can even be grateful for most of my upbringing - parents, jw, the whole lot. But then I wasn't overtly abused by it and when I read other people's experiences here I can understand their bitterness. I joined this forum a year ago, lurked for a couple of weeks, decided it was too 'negative and bitter' and, because I so didn't want to be like that, I didn't re-visit. I actually only accidentally came upon this forum again a week ago when I was deleting old sites in my 'favourites'. Had a quick look and this time I can be more objective about what I read here. Because I actually was bitter (and I knew that, I just didn't want to get stuck there) whereas now I am not.
I think we all go through the same stages, just like someone grieving death. Just we all move through each stage at a different pace and in a different time frame. All we can hold out to you is that it does get a lot better - we promise!!
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Watchtower condones murder - but make sure you disfellowship for smoking!
by AK - Jeff ini unintentionally hijacked the wanderer's thread regarding a witness mindset - so i post this here to leave his thread on topic.. http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm.
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i know that this in not news to most here - but to some newer 'faders' or 'lurkers' it might be.. jeff .
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zensim
The letter is 14 years old and I don't necessarily expect that the wts holds that legal position anymore. Clergy privileges generally have grown narrower and narrower.
Not sure about crimes such as murder (and I guess I should find out) but as a therapist it is complete law that I must report any knowledge of suspected child abuse (same goes for teachers, doctors etc and doctors used to have similar client privileges as clergy). However, that hasn't always been so in the not so distant past.
Do we have a lawyer in the house? Because as far as I understand the law has grown and changed and as a result so have the churches etc had to change. The way the law works though is that it can't make a ruling until situations, exactly as the one in the letter, are brought to the court. But once the precedent is set then it works backwards and then the church/org/persons in authority have to change in accordance.
Of course, I think what most people here are reacting to is the ethics and morality and hypocritical attitude of the whole jw culture - but I bet my arse the wts is up-to-date on whatever the legal requirements are these days. Funny - took me so long to realise that the wts actually do fear men more than Jehovah!
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"Jehovah Has Become King", video by Robert King
by frankiespeakin inis he trying to start his own mind control cult?
watch the video and judge.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5267956386083735501&q=jehovah&hl=en.
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zensim
The borgs would be proud of themselves!!!!
Actually I am editing myself - I don't really believe the org is some deliberate conspiracy theory based alien nation. I am sure most of them and most witnesses are just victim of the pervasive religious mindset that has existed for hundreds of years. I think, like most things, most orgs or groups start out with good intentions, but human nature and existing consciousness of the time seems to devolve it into something else.
Just thought I would explain myself seeing as I am new here - not that it really matters I guess.
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"Jehovah Has Become King", video by Robert King
by frankiespeakin inis he trying to start his own mind control cult?
watch the video and judge.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5267956386083735501&q=jehovah&hl=en.
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zensim
I couldn't watch more than a minute of it before my stomach began to churn. Sounds like the start of any normal talk on any given Sunday at the KH.
Same delivery, same message, same result - inspire massive fear, worry and negativity, then provide the 'solution!' (so what if it's another hack based theory?).
When I look at someone like him that is what I used to think an 'apostate' looked like - someone who acts and talks like a witness but has their own god complex. I think that is why I found it so hard when I left and realised some people thought I was an apostate just because I said I didn't agree the gov bod was Jeh's org - because I always thought apostates were nut jobs.
He's really no different to most witnesses, he is still definitely under the mind control - just imposing it on himself now. Basically they started it and he has kept it going! The borgs would be proud of themselves!!!!
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Post your favorite saying
by Scully ini was just pondering how the wts has, for over a century, been able to convince people to do what is contrary to their best interests with fear tactics that armageddon is coming soon, and i came up with what is going to be my pet phrase for a while:.
"only religion has the power to compel people to embrace sheer stupidity in the name of faith.
" ~ scully, december 28, 2006. i googled it, and didn't see that anyone else has claimed it, so until someone else finds an attribution for it, i'm claiming it as my own.
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zensim
And this one I wrote:
'Our children teach us, just as we teach them. As much as we want to leave them a better physical world, we have to remember the most important world we can leave them is in their hearts. It is from within their hearts that they will create their future world.'
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Post your favorite saying
by Scully ini was just pondering how the wts has, for over a century, been able to convince people to do what is contrary to their best interests with fear tactics that armageddon is coming soon, and i came up with what is going to be my pet phrase for a while:.
"only religion has the power to compel people to embrace sheer stupidity in the name of faith.
" ~ scully, december 28, 2006. i googled it, and didn't see that anyone else has claimed it, so until someone else finds an attribution for it, i'm claiming it as my own.
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zensim
I collect quotes - I have pages of my favourites. But this one has pretty much underpinned my life for the longest time now. Fortunately I didn't have to to wait until I was old to figure out this one:
Written by an unknown Monk, around 1100AD:
'When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world,' he wrote.
'I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation. When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town, and as an older man, I tried to change my family.
Now, as an old man, I realise the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realise that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could, indeed, have changed the world.'
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15
My Best Friend... Wasted youth
by trapjaw inhi all, apologies if i've put this in the wrong place.
please excuse the long post, i'll try keep it as short as possible.
i just wanted to tell my story.
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zensim
Trapjaw - that is such a beautiful story. (btw, thanks for your second post - I was going to suggest using paragraphs because that was bloody hard to read!)
Your love for your friend is evident, not to mention your intelligent approach to the whole situation. He is very fortunate to have someone like you who not only cares for him deeply, but is prepared to go to the effort of doing rational research on the whole saga.
I can only speak from my experience, but I have to say that even though your friend did a lot of activities with you that are certainly not approved of by the religion, this can result in two outcomes. One, it can lead a person away, or two, it can send them deeper into the witness web constructed of guilt and fear. It sounds like this is what has happened with your friend. Often, someone who is a witness who does these kinds of thing, can then berate themselves constantly for being weak and sinful, which sends them on a pendulum swing of then trying harder to be a 'good witness approved by Jehovah'.
You have much to offer your friend: first and foremost - your unconditional love and acceptance - whether or not he remains a witness. Even if remains a witness all his life, he will be a more balanced human (and definitely witness) if he retains someone like you in his life and is able to practice tolerance for other beliefs (just as you are). By all means also plant thoughts of freedom, but do it naturally, from your heart, like you would any other person. Don't try and be deliberately subversive otherwise he will feel (even at a subconscious level) that you are undermining him. Promote freedom like you would for any member of the human race.
Appeal to the positive aspects that you like in him (and also recognise amongst the witnesses, not all their teachings are bad). One of the influential things for me was truly recognising that there are other people out there who are just as 'approved by god' as those in the org. I for one couldn't dispute that other people's prayers were answered, that other religions/spiritual beliefs also recounted experiences of 'miracles/blessings/answered prayers' as the witnesses. Appeal to his heart just as much as his mind.