Posts by Ingenuous

15

Small (toy) dogs.

by greendawn in

they are cute breeds like king charles, maltese, pug, etc and one can see them often on the city streets taken for walks by their owners.

they feel comfortable even in a small appartment, don't shed an aweful lot of hair, are affectionate, and don't cost much to feed.

on the other hand they are not made for very long walks out in the countryside or mountains they can accidently be seriously injured due to their delicate physique and can be very aggressive with strangers.

Ingenuous

I've got two maltese furbabies - littermates - and they are awesome, loyal companions.

They've got different personalities that continue to develop as they get older. They are truly "people" dogs - they'd rather be inside with their humans absorbing the conversation than running around a yard. They think everyone who comes to the apartment is there to see them. They are extremely intelligent and eager to please and pick up commands like lightning when we're training with the clicker. (Although the little boy gets an attitude when we repeat the same thing too often; he obeys but is such a drama queen about it!) Mine aren't aggressive in any sense, they mind well, and are excellent watchdogs. (A little too excellent - I've got an ultrasonic bark-breaker that keeps them quiet when they're inclined to take their job too seriously.) My little girl loves training and has a little "happy dance" she only does when we've had a training session.

As for stamina - many maltese are in agility and can likely be trained to hike longer periods than inside dogs - though I'm pretty sure they'll never give a malamute a run for its money. There are backpacks and jogging stollers available to carry them if necessary. (I suppose those are good for older, arthritic dogs who can't get around outside as well.) One consideration is that maltese don't have an undercoat; their coat is like the hair on our heads, so they legitimately need sweaters/coats (and possibly boots) in cold weather.

Being so little, I can sequester them in the kitchen without feeling they're cramped and I don't need large, heavy, expensive gates to block passageways. Mine are litter-box trained - an advantage of having small dogs. No walks in the rain or snow for us!

Being so small, they also have a longer anticipated lifespan: 18-20 years. I'm hooked and will likely stick with the breed when my two pass on.

61

Did you read ..........THAT........book...............

by vitty in

jw
friends

.

.............. coc, of course.

when you were still in the org, or when you had already left.. i read it when i was still in and it had a profound effect on me.. lets take a poll .

Ingenuous

I read both a couple months ago - borrowed from a friend.

I wasn't surprised by many of the things in CoC. I'd seen my Dad - before he stepped down as an elder and for a while afterward - slandered, back-stabbed, and lied about in letters to the Society and in the congregation by the BoE. So the abuse of others that existed "at the top" didn't shock me much. What really got me was the info on the Malawi/Mexico hypocrisy and the 607 BCE conspiracy. The blatant callousness of the "cartilla" double-standard and the fact that they knew 607 BCE was wrong really struck me.

I found ISoCF comforting, realizing many had come to conclusions similar to those I developed via my own research and that there was company to be found during my spiritual search. If I ever buy one of them, it'll be ISoCF.

30

FDS says "bury your toilet waste for Jehovah!"

by jstalin in

from the current beacon of knowledge, the fds web site:.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/index.htm?article=article_09.htm.

5. physical cleanness: because they represent god, christians should keep their bodies and clothing clean.

Ingenuous

Why did they feel they had to write this?

A few years ago I heard that in some developing countries where citizens didn't have plumbing or waste processing facilities, many people would do their business, tie it up in a bag, and simply throw it away as far as they could - resulting in a very unique meaning to the words, "Heads up!"

54

How many of you shunned others when you were a JW?

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i know i did.. we had a young fellow who used to live at my grandmother's place.

in may ways he was like family.

after he moved out of my grandmother's place i saw him frequently.

Ingenuous

I did. Including close friends.

I didn't like it but I thought the Org knew best. I now realize how much such behavior is tied to a belief that certain people had a right to pass judgement on others and punish them when they didn't do as we thought right.

Welcoming them back when they were reinstated was such a relief - lots of big hugs and tears all around the congregation and I wasn't obliged to act like a jerk toward them anymore.

28

Mrs. ITIS/FreedomLover - How I "saw the light!" ha ha ha

by freedomlover in

okay, first thank you to the greastest degree for the warm welcome and insight you all have given itis and me since i've started visiting your very apostate site.

my life as a jw.

it starts with my maternal grandmother.

Ingenuous

Thank you so much for your share - so open, honest, and enlightening.

I could always, somehow, rationalize all that away; I really believed the JW's were the ONLY worldwide brotherhood, they WERE god's channel today, and that I had to look at the BIGGER picture when "little" things bothered me.Besides, everyone I've ever known and loved believed it, so IT HAS to be true.

I was raised a JW and baptized at 14. I wrestled with feelings just like this for most of my life. I handed over my intellectual integrity to the Org and my JW parents, especially my Dad, who I was convinced was the next-best-thing to Jesus. Reclaiming and being responsible for my own integrity is new territory for me - but quickly becoming more comfortable.

It's funny that even though I was having trouble putting my time line together, I just figured I wasn't understanding it yet, not that the WTS was making up dates.

Another familiar experience. When I first started "seeing the light" myself, I was so sure I was the one who was wrong, that I wasn't strong enough spiritually, that I wasn't understanding the spiritual food from the "Slave" because there was something wrong with me. I prayed so hard, over and over, that I was wrong, that this was my fault, that I'd get the discipline and correction I needed to understand the truth. And did I ever get it!

I wished he hadn't given me so much, but he really needed to get a lot off his chest also.

This was very insightful and quite commendable.

It threw me down so hard I really wondered if I'd ever recover from this.... It's only been a few months so far, and I feel like I've come so far, and yet it amazes me that I could leave "my faith" so quickly. Just shows how deep it really was. Not that deep........

When I first started my research - using only the Bible and the CD and a couple encyclopedias - it truly felt like stepping off a cliff and hoping someone would catch me. I was completely out within a month. It can go very quickly, but never underestimate how deep such indoctrination can go. You'll find it creeping in during the strangest of times.

You've come so far - and the advantages will be so much greater than you can imagine.

Peace and Blessings, Freedomlover!

10

JWs and lurkers: Would you teach your son?

by AuldSoul in

jw
friends

here is an illustration for those who are jws and for lurkers:.

suppose a man approached you with these words, "i am god's prophet.

an important one, too.

Ingenuous

And then...

After a while, you start wondering why so many changes have been made. You start to research the information the man (and/or his representatives) has given you. You ask others who have also been visited by this man what they think of what he says. One day, the man comes to your door. You start to explain some of your findings when he cuts you off. He tells you that you shouldn't question anything he does or says, that you shouldn't talk to anyone who knows him but disagrees with him, and that you shouldn't believe anything you read that contradicts him - even if it's his own writings. Then the kicker: he tells you that if you persist in your investigations and insist on believing he is not a prophet of God, not only is God going to kill you (because he says so), but that he'll personally make sure you never talk to your family or friends again.

What to do, what to do....?

99

guys i really need your help

by Cordelia in

jw
friends

todaythings have really come to a head and i have a massive decusion to make by 7pm tonight!.

basically i have been dfed since march tryed to get reinstated two weeks ago but they said no, thing is i only did it for my family esp my dad he is not well and i love him to pieces.

but when i got dfed i had a boyfriend and things have been up and down (hes put up with alot) but he is sticking by my side and i love him and want to be open about him and not lie anymore, .

Ingenuous

thing is he actuelly said to me before that i could make him compromise and that even my mum said she doesnt want to be in the new world without me but i dont want to destroy their faith it is their life!

You cannot "make" them "compromise". Their choices are theirs, not yours.

Someone who wants to believe something regardless of reality will not let facts get in the way of doing so. If someone is more inclined to pursue truth, then the struggle of living by truth is inevitable. Yet, it is still their struggle and no one else's.

As opposed to trying to reason or argue or force the truth about the Org on them, it may help if you resolve ahead of time not to argue. No arguments, discussions, cajoling, etc. If you make your statement ("I'm not going back.") and simply repeat it without attempting to justify it, they'll likely lose steam. Deciding ahead of time not to argue or get sucked into a "discussion" can also relieve some of the pressure on you because you don't have anything to prove or defend. Other than letting them know you love them and that will never change and asking for the same respect that you would show them regarding personal choices, maybe you can give yourself a break by not planning a long-winded, in depth approach.

Some info on dealing with emotional blackmail may also help.

All the best!

6

Cool site on deprogramming dubs

by MsMcDucket in

http://hometown.aol.com/smcdownlds/courseindex.html .

Ingenuous

Excellent resource!

And, for those who might object to visiting such a site, the text can be copied and pasted into a document.

2

"From Holy to Whole"

by Ingenuous in

"... when you process religious issues, you end up processing all of your issues.

these aspects of personal health and maturity are so basic.

thus, as you make a commitment to work on these areas, you are beginning a very far-reaching journey of growth and are to be commended.".

Ingenuous

"... When you process religious issues, you end up processing all of your issues. These aspects of personal health and maturity are so basic. Thus, as you make a commitment to work on these areas, you are beginning a very far-reaching journey of growth and are to be commended."
Recovery resources from the site of psychologist Marlene Winell:
From Holy to Whole: Reclaiming Spirituality
Select chapters of Marlene's book Leaving the Fold

9

Erratic jw dogma virtue or vice?

by greendawn in

jw
friends

the jw dogma makers have tacitly admitted that numerous of their interpretations of the bible are erroneous, by bringing in new ones to replace the previous.

in fact they keep shifting their positions on most issues over the 130 years of their existence.

they try to present this as a kind of virtue: they admit their errors and humbly change them.

Ingenuous

A good place for them to start would be to supply a list of articles where they've actually admitted their mistakes - and apologized. Given how many there have been, there should be a slew of such references if they were sincere. This would be especially so with someone who is humble, because such a person would be quick to admit they were wrong when they realized it and not what to be "found out" before coming forward.

A second idea to pursue would be documentation of how they've performed "damage control" - if they're actually humble and virtuous, they should be able to show how they've going back to all the places and people they've injured through their errors and made amends, corrected the damage, and made necessary restitution.

Third: If someone is really apologetic, they should show they've learned their lesson by not repeating the offense. And the Org's history with that is...?

*** w81 9/1 p. 24 Repentance Leading Back to God ***
.... A person who is repentant does not try to minimize or justify his bad course. He recognizes in his mind the wrongness of what he did and feels in his heart deep regret over having sinned against God.
.... the important thing is that the wrongdoer is touched at heart, having a spirit of agony or sense of deep regret over having offended Jehovah and damaged his relationship with God.
... What, though, if he did not voluntarily confess and the matter had to be established by his being confronted with evidence or the testimony of witnesses? He might still (there at the meeting) be reached, acknowledging his sin. (Note the example of David’s repentance over his sin with Bath-sheba, at 2 Samuel 12:1-13.) But, especially when extensive reproof had to be given before the wrongdoer began to make any initial expressions of repentance, should the committee exercise caution.
... does the wrongdoer show genuine remorse over the reproach, problems and sorrow that he may have brought on the congregation?
... If he sinned against an individual, has he confessed his sin to that person and asked for forgiveness?... Or if the wrongdoer is guilty of fraud, has he taken any steps to compensate for the loss? In some circumstances he might be unable to undo all the damage he has caused, but does he give evidence that reasonable steps will be taken to make up for any loss? (Luke 19:8) The point is, to what extent has the guilty person produced the ‘fruit befitting repentance’?