Posts by mdb

54

Why did Jesus have to die?

by ghostbuster in

i disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.

the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.

it's scary if you think about it.

Actually, though I don't feel like entertaining this thread any longer, the reason I did not post is that I do not have the internet at home and it was a weekend. I have better things to do on the weekends.

I have shared what I believe and know to be true. You either agree with what I have spoken here or you don't.

God is love. If He had created us without a will and therefore, without the ability to choose, that would not have been a loving act either. God gave us the freedom to choose and we make bad choices. Those bad choices have consequences. That doesn't make God unloving, it makes man disobedient.

..... thanks Rex.

54

Why did Jesus have to die?

by ghostbuster in

i disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.

the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.

it's scary if you think about it.

mdb

Why is it that someone who espouses the love of God so much has an avatar of a mouse crippled by a laser printer's toner cartridge anyway?

That mouse was not crippled and was rescued once found. He lives on! The question is, how did that mouse get himself in there anyway?

54

Why did Jesus have to die?

by ghostbuster in

i disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.

the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.

it's scary if you think about it.

mdb

That's not the point. The ransom analogy suggests that X pays something to Y in order to release Z from the power of Y. If you say Y = Z, the analogy is ruined.

The "analogy" is wrong. Christ (X) owes nothing to Satan (Y) that He should purchase man (Z) from the power of Satan (Y) by means of a transaction between he and Himself. Satan never owned us in order to sell us and I (Z) am not Satan (Y) as you claim by your Y=Z analogy. Your analogy was ruined from the start because you cannot "calculate" the truths of God.

Satan temporarily has power over us who are not God's children, but he does not have ownership that God should purchase man from him. He died to purchase man from the power of Satan, of darkness, of sin. Jesus died and rose again to life to take away the great divide between man and God so we might have communion with Him. You cannot take what Jesus Christ did for you and put it into a mathematical formula.

"To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."

" Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

54

Why did Jesus have to die?

by ghostbuster in

i disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.

the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.

it's scary if you think about it.

mdb

Jesus had to die because he couldn't keep his damn mouth shut!

Thanks for your input.

54

Why did Jesus have to die?

by ghostbuster in

i disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.

the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.

it's scary if you think about it.

mdb

who is requiring it?

We require it because of our sin. God cannot look apon our sin and so Jesus Christ shed His blood to cover all our iniquities, that His righteousness would become our righteousness (if we are heirs with Him through faith, that is by grace).

Death entered this world by man and life eternal was made available through Jesus Christ.

“For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1 Cor 15:21,22)

I see what you’re trying to get at. Does God require it to “bring man to Himself”? No, man requires it because man’s sin has separated him from God and brought death into the world. God longs for us to be near Him, but He is not in need of man or of anything. God willingly sent His Son as a ransom for us because He loves us.

54

Why did Jesus have to die?

by ghostbuster in

i disassociated myself from jws about 20 years ago so i'm a bit rusty on christian teaching.

the intersting thing though is i hadn't completely disassociated my mind from their teachings and it's only been recently that i've had true independent thought.

it's scary if you think about it.

mdb

I just don't get it now. It's a weird notion.

The reason God himself came to be the sacrificial lamb is because he loves his creation and God, by nature, is love. The scriptures say that the greatest act of love is that a man lay down his life for a friend. By God coming to be the sacrifice required to bring man to himself, he performs the greatest act of love and calls those who believe on Jesus Christ (God), friend. If God sent someone else to die for the world which he created, He would not have performed that great act of love. Aside from that, no human could have bore the cross because all men are born into sin and born of the flesh. But God, born of the Spirit in the God-man Jesus Christ, is perfect.

123

Jesus was a liar.

by nicolaou in

firstly, it is not my intention here to offend anyone so if you are likely to get upset at reading 'blasphemous' statements or criticism of jesus then perhaps you should go to another topic.

also, i am not in the habit of making personal attacks on other posters, if you decide to stay and read this - don't attack me!

by all means rip my post to pieces and explain where i got it all wrong, but don't shoot the messenger.. and remember, i come from the same place as most of you, i was one of jehovah's witnesses for over thirty years.

mdb

there is no god, the bible is not true and JW's are wrong

The JW's are wrong, the NWT bible in not true to the ancient Greek texts (the infallible word of God is true), there is one true God.

64

Christians - Can you Ever Lose your Salvation?

by gumby in

below is a common view of a christians viewpoint of salvation.

see if you christians here agree, and answer how you feel about whether salvation can be lost.

section 7: salvation

mdb

Ironically, Calvinism is quite a distance from the position Calvin held, on a number of things. Theology evolves.

Theology "evolves" or men by changing theology stray from the truth which never changes? (I'm not saying all or any of the Calvanistic view is or is not in error - I really don't care; I follow Christ Jesus).

Are people "Calvinists" or Christians? Do we follow Calvin or the Calvinistic theology (which you say has "evolved") or do we follow Christ who is unchanging and full of truth?

64

Christians - Can you Ever Lose your Salvation?

by gumby in

below is a common view of a christians viewpoint of salvation.

see if you christians here agree, and answer how you feel about whether salvation can be lost.

section 7: salvation

mdb

this is where the ultra-Calvinist would question whether such a person was ever saved in the first place.

Why do we still do this? I follow Calvin, I follow Paul, I follow Apollos, I follow...

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor 1:10-13)

Do we never learn?

64

Christians - Can you Ever Lose your Salvation?

by gumby in

below is a common view of a christians viewpoint of salvation.

see if you christians here agree, and answer how you feel about whether salvation can be lost.

section 7: salvation

mdb

The JWs follow a similar "lost-it" position, based on 1.Cor.10:12, however they ignore that the verse doesn't actually say that the individual is standing, only that they think they are.

It surprises me that the Watchtower could cite a verse like this in order to support their doctrine. Read the verse in context…

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. (1 Cor 10:12-14)

These verses are clearly talking about the moment in which an individual is being drug away by their own evil desires into temptation. It has nothing to do with a person “falling from their salvation”, but is a warning to “take heed” lest you fall into sin. It is at that point when a man thinks that he stands by his own accord, forgetting that he only stands by God’s grace, and his heart becomes prideful that a falling is very near. “Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.” (Proverbs 16:18)