Posts by mdb

32

I need to know

by cosmic in

shining one just did a thread on an article that supposedly shows the bible was not fabricated.

i didn't want to hijack his thread, so i started this one.. .

i'm getting old, i guess, and maybe alzheimer's is starting in, but i have lost my vision, my understanding, my assurity if you will.

mdb

Worship God because He is holy.

Exalt the Lord our God,
And worship at His holy hill;
For the Lord our God is holy.
~Psalm 99:9

He is the giver of life and worthy of all our praise. Why wouldn't you worship your creator?

61

Why shouldn't I be a JW?

by AirDuster in

hi, i am brand new to these forums.

i have been reading some stuff for a while from here and other websites.

i feels totally crazy being a member now.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
~Jn 14:6-9

Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
~1 Jn 2:23

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
~1 Jn 5:9-13

The Watchtower keeps you diligently studying their publications rather than the word of God because if you were to study the Scriptures without the WTBTS liturature, you would see the light instead of "falling from the light" as they warn their followers. You should leave the WTBTS because they do not know the Son, therfore neither do they know the Father (of whom they say they are witnesses). Look at Jesus' response to Philip when he ask Him to show them the Father... "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip?" Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father. The WTBTS strips Jesus of His deity and calls Him a lesser god. That's polytheism (the worship of or belief in more than one god). They also nullify the hope in a physical resurrection when they claim that Jesus was raised a spirit being and did not rise in the flesh. That teaching is unbiblical and the Scriptures say that the Holy One will not see corruption (Ps 16:10; Acts 2:31; 13:33-41) and that we will also be raised from the dead as He was (1 Pet 1:3-5).

I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust. This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience without offense toward God and men.
~Acts 24:15,16

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
~1 Pet 1:3-5

Without faith in Jesus Christ, by the grace of God who calls all men to Himself (2 Cor 5:18,19), you do not have life and you are dead in your sins.

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
~2 Cor 5:18,19

1

Funds received.

by mdb in

how does the watchtower obtain their funds - more specifically, individual kingdom halls?.

i know that they receive money through investments and real estate, but at the local level is there an offering taken during sunday morning services?

do the members have to pay for their own watchtower and awake!

mdb

How does the Watchtower obtain their funds - more specifically, individual Kingdom Halls?

I know that they receive money through investments and Real Estate, but at the local level is there an offering taken during Sunday morning services? Do the members have to pay for their own Watchtower and Awake! subscriptions? Do you have to buy your own books and other study materials?

Curious.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

mdb

g-isright,

This is really dirty.

Sorry. My "As a JW" ... question was not to a specific individual, it was to any currently active JW's here. I should have been more clear.

22

Do Mormons have a more intellectually substantial belief system than JWs?

by slimboyfat in

that seems to be the implication in a new evangelical response to mormonism called "the new mormon challenge: responding to the latest defenses of a fast-growing movement.".

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/asin/0310231949/qid%3d1142896789/202-9316169-3351050.

this books presents a sophisticated response from serious scholars in fields of theological and religious studies who bring their expertise to bear on controversial mormon truth claims.

mdb

Mormons I don't feel are as over the top as JW, but they still dictate your life. ; They place great emphasis on family which is good, but they still like to butt in on personal lives which is not.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Go to http://www.carm.org/mormon.htm to read on some of their doctrines, etc.

Have you ever read their temple ceremony? It is REALLY messed up. They say that it was given to them by God and that it cannot be altered (claim equality to the ceremonies given to Israel for the temple). In the 1990's, the ceremony was drastically altered and approx. 50% of it was changed.

If you ever have a Mormon come to your door, ask them about the undergarment that they have to wear throughout their life. It has a compass, square, and rule (Masonic) stitched into them. The compass over the left breast, square over the right breast, and the rule over the right knee. They won't talk about it though because it is sacred and they are forbidden to talk about anything that goes on in their temples.

18

Meek inheriting the earth?

by dozy in

this question is really aimed at those who have exited jws but still retain a belief in the bible.

what did jesus mean here (mt 5:5)?

when i ask "christians" this question , they usually have no idea.

mdb

Meek: showing patience and humility,gentle; submissive.

Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth [land]. ~Matt 5:5 (direct ref. Ps 37:11)

But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. ~Ps 37:11

"Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid." (Jn 14:27)

For the upright will dwell in the land,
And the blameless will remain in it; ~Prov 2:21

When Israel became disobedient and turned to other gods, they were cast out from the land of promise, but when they again humbled themselves and turned back to God, they were restored to that same land. Those who walk in humility (meekness) before God will inherit the promise. The crossing of the Jordan to the promised land was an antitype of the crossing over from death unto life, inheriting the true promise which is by faith - eternal life and entrance into the kingdom of God. The meek will inherit the land of promise and rejoice. All the blessings in the beatitudes are non-physical. Why would the blessings of the meek be any different? In context, it does not make sense to conclude that the meek shall inherit a physical land or only a physical land (not that God does not physically bless). A temporal inheritance of the land is still not proof of a paradise earth. The Scriptures say that this earth shall pass away and that the elements will be melted with great heat.

The humble also shall increase their joy in the Lord,
And the poor among men shall rejoice
In the Holy One of Israel. ~Is 29:19

For the promise that he would be the heir of the world (Gen 17:4-6; 22:17) was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. ~Rom 4:13

“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. ~Gen 17:4-6

blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. ~Gen 22:17

30

Is this a verse that J.W.s' don't have an answer to?

by hubert in

luke 23:43....jesus said to the "evildoer" (named dismus) next to him on the cross/stake...... "truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.

" (taken from the nwt).. now, jesus went up to heaven (in paradise) after the resurrection, right?.

so, the "evildoer" also went up to heaven in "paradise, with jesus, according to that scripture, and not paradise on earth, even if there is one, according to the watchtowers' teachings about an "earthly paradise".. so, since only 144,000 faithful and discreet slave class will be in heaven with jesus, does that make the "evildoer" that died next to jesus one of the "faithful and discreet"?

mdb

Chappy,

How could anyone be with Christ in paradise that day? Christ didn't ascend himself that day. it was several days later, no? Seems the WT comma placement explination makes sense.

Where was this paradise then? You are correct, Jesus did not ascend into heaven until after the resurrection so the "paradise" Jesus was talking about could not have been heaven at that time.

With Christ in Paradise

And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” ~Luke 23:43

He first descended

But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
(Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) ~Eph 4:7-10

Abraham’s bosom (incorrectly interpreted by the WTS as not literal)

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ” ~Luke 16:22-31

The grave/ Sheol and Hades

The grave (sheol (Hebrew), hades (Greek for sheol)) is not hell. Hell is the place of the future punishment call “Gehenna” or “Gehenna of fire”. This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction. In the period of the divided monarchy, this valley was the site of a pagan altar, or “high place” (see Deut. 12:2), known as Tophet (“fireplace”). Parents sacrificed their children there to the god Molech. The Bible singles out Ahaz and Manasseh, kings of Judah, as having led the way in this grotesque ritual (2 Chr 28:3; 33:6). But Scripture praises King Josiah for destroying this idolatrous altar during his reforms (2 Kg 23:10). The Valley of Hinnom would become a cemetery known as the Valley of Slaughter (Jer 7:31–32; 19:1–6; 32:35). In time, the valley became so noxious that its name became a synonym for hell. The Hebrew phrase ge (“valley of”) hinnom eventually became the Greek Gehenna (Matt 5:22; Mark 9:43, 45, 47).

Hades is the region of departed spirits of the lost and also included the “blessed” dead in periods preceding the ascension of Christ. So it (the grave) consisted of two compartments, or states: torment for the wicked, and paradise for the righteous (Luke 16:23-31 the parable of Lazarus and the rich man).

The thief on the cross was with Jesus "that day" in paradise (Abraham's Bosom). Now with Christ ascended to heaven, we go to be with Him.

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. ~2 Cor 5:8

But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. ~Phil 1:22,23

13

Comeback from witness...interesting

by integ in

i asked my uncle elder about the scripture that says; "keep testing to make sure you are in the faith" or something to that effect, to kind of try to explain why i have the audacity to question watchtower doctrine.

his response was something i guess i knew, but had forgotten.."that doesn't mean to keep testing the teachings of the faithful slave, it means that we need to keep testing 'ourselves' to make sure we are still faithful to gods' organization".

i had forgotten the spin on that scripture, and all i could do was shake my head and say "okay, whatever".

mdb

Some of these have been posted, but that's okay. Scully, what is the Rbi8 bible? The wording is a lot different than the NKJV below (eg. "inspired expressions" seems new age in contrast to "the spirits" and the ideas portrayed are vastly different between the two.)

Test Everything
Test all things; hold fast what is good. 1 Thess 5:21

Search out the Scriptures
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Acts 17:11

Examine ourselvesExamine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Cor 13:5

Test the SpiritsBeloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 1 Jn 4:1-3

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

mdb

just2sheep,

what version of the bible did you find the scripture from isaiah? i am looking at isaiah 9:6-7 in the new king james version and it reads in verse 6-"...and his name will be called wonderful, counseler, mighty god, everlasting father, prince of peace." the the isn't there.

The KJV has "The Mighty God" in this verse. The original Hebrew is gibowr (the Mighty) el (God).

If you don't agree with the insertion of the article "the", it doesn't really matter because the Messiah is still called "mighty God". There is only one true God and if Jesus was not the true God, yet claimed to be, He lied (sinned) and did not save us from our sins because the sacrifice was tainted - not without blemmish. Thankfully, He did save us from our sins and He is who He claimed to be.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

mdb

You see this is the exact promblem with the trinity doctrine. To prove it you have to play the connect the dots game. If the trinity doctrine was true, why isn't there simply one verse in the bible that says Jehovah, Jesus, and and the holy spirit are God. Rather, to prove the trinity doctrine, one has to stretch the interpretation a scripture and skip back and forth across the bible to connect one scripture to another. Then one has to explain away several verses that contradictst their teaching.

Yet, as the original post shows you, there are passages that individually say the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God (and Lord). And the Scriptures say there is only one God and that there is no other God but Him.

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
1 Cor 8:5,6

So, in 1 Cor 8:5,6 it says there is only on God (the Father) and one Lord (Jesus Christ). As a JW, would you agree that if there is only one Lord, and His name is Jesus Christ, that God the Father cannot be Lord? I doubt it. The Scriptures say that God (yhwh) is Lord, but here the word says that Jesus Christ is Lord and that there is only one. That poses a problem if you do not believe that Jesus Christ is who He claimed to be - God.