Posts by West70

7

PRISON PROSELYTING

by Think in

what will happen when the gang mebers, murderers and others prisoners become jw, and then sooner or later will learn that this is man made religion, false prophets lies and make ups?

will they take revange on the wt leaders, or will they slaughter all cult members in anger?

JWs are not that successful at recruiting in prisons.

Many if not most of their prison recruits already had ties to the JWs prior to going to prison.

The JW's "works" salvation message is not well suited for the prison audience.

The prison audience is more attracted to the Calvinistic "once saved - always saved" faith salvation.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

Music was an important part of William and Sarah Conley's ministry.

Sarah played the organ and piano.

Both William and Sarah enjoyed singing.

Each often teamed with friends to form duets, quartets, etc.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

The "H" in William H. Conley stands for "Henry". Some people referred to him as "William", others called him "Henry".

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

Yes, folks, it is a fact. The FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE WATCH TOWER SOCIETY left the Society and Russell's teachings, and eventually joined with a movement closer to mainstream Christianity. Little has been reported of this because it was in all parties best interest to keep this quiet.

Between the mid 1880s and his death in 1897, William Conley was more active than Russell in spreading the Gospel, both locally and internationally.

It seems that part of the reason little is known of Conley's activities is because he simply "moved on". Conley did not waste time opposing Russell. The 1894 letter was written around the only time that a local controversy came close to pitting the two men directly against each other. Conley's letter was evidently and attempt to maintain peace between the two.

However, Russell took various "pop shots" at Conley over the years, without mentioning Conley's name. Russell knew that those folks who knew Conley would know who he was slandering.

29

Circuit Overseer Pensions and the Implications

by AlanF in

i just learned that the watchtower society has instituted a pension plan of sorts for circuit overseers.

this is a big change.. previous to this new plan, the various kinds of "traveling overseers" were pretty much on their own when they retired from the traveling work.

in a few cases, such men were invited to live out their lives in bethel, but in most cases they simply went back to being normal rank and file members who had to fend for themselves financially.. i can only speculate that the reason for this change was that the society has been having difficulty getting elders to become circuit overseers.

West70

If this turns out to be factual, and it may very well be, then it was done for one reason:

IT IS IN THE WTS's BEST INTEREST.

And, there are probably a variety of considerations.

First, the WTS probably has noticed that they are facing a significant number of "retirements" in the near future.

Second, the last thing the WTS needs is a bunch of disgruntled "insiders" who know where "all the bodies are buried" at the intermediary and rank-n-file levels.

Always assume the WTS is looking out for its own rearend.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

Kenneson:

Thanks for interacting. Yes, the 1880 and 1881 Memorials were held at the Conley's home, but switched to Joseph Russell's home at least for the 1882 Memorial.

It is possible that problems had started by then, but I doubt it. I haven't taken the time to look, but you might want to check to see when the 1882 Memorial location was first announced. Usually, this was as early as January.

In he middle of December 1881, the Conley's young daughter died. Thus, I'm guessing that this so tore them up that they stopped holding any meetings at their home for a good while.

I'm beginning to believe that the Conley's split from Russell in latter 1882, when everyone else was doing so for various reasons. I think that the Trinity was the final straw, but Russell's failed past predictions and future ridiculous predictions, as well as possible "plundering" of Conley's donations in 1881 may have all played some role in their split.

With regard to the "charts" question, I am aware that many different folks --both Adventists and others-- used charts.

However, my Q is that since Conley was later preaching using a "dispensational chart" -- then whose chart was it?

Did Paton have a chart?

Did Conley devise his own?

Was Conley using one from Darby?

Thanks.

87

To: Barbara Anderson -- Re: First WatchTower President

by West70 in

i am primarily posting this to barbara anderson, but obviously everyone is welcome to correct or comment on my remarks as they see fit.

mrs. anderson, i realize that trying to cover all bases in your pending russell bio would be impossible, but i do hope that you will be able to include a section on the first president of the watch tower society, william h. conley.

i hope that you have had a chance to research conley with some degree of thoroughness, so as to dispel some of the half-truths that some bible students and jws try to promote (such as that conley's age and health caused his inactivity with russell after 1881).

West70

After William Conley left the Watch Tower Society, he continued to give sermons on the dispensations and the Second Advent using someones "Chart".

I find it difficult to believe that Conley would have split from Russell and then used Russell's Chart from PLAN.

Was there a "chart" in "Day Dawn"? What about Paton's later editions?

Did Barbour later publish a Chart?

Or, did Conley develop his own "chart"?

Thanks.

210

Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

by DannyHaszard in

jehovah's loses comp case

church may be forced to pay millions

by jess wisloski.

West70

AS:

This situation got where it is at without any outside help, or for that matter, without it even being known about until this news article was published.

As I noted in one of my first posts to this thread, I'm not even sure that publicizing the Upton case is such a good idea.

The further this goes up the ladder the more likelihood the decision will apply to other religious orgs. WBTS probably has already notified them about this case in the hope that other religious orgs will do whatever they can behind the scenes to bring pressure to bear on the WC Board.

Again, I believe the downsizing already done over the past 3 or 4 years has been driven by his pending case. Not that there were not other good reasons to do so, but the WBTS moves slowly- even when something is in their best interest. Whatever further changes in the ops comes from all this will probably have as many positives as negatives. This has and will continue to make an old inefficient organization leaner and meaner.

Even if part (WatchTower Farm) of the WBTS's ops are forced under WC, the predicted change in the Bethelite-GB/FDS relationship will take time to produce fruit.

If the large staff reduction is real, and such continues, then some of those folks will probably write the next generation of WBTS exposes.

If ther have ideas, I simply would suggest that such be thought out carefully before implemented, so that such do not turn out to help rather than hurt the Borg. Unfortunately, some XJWs have proven themselves to be rather shortsighted about their anti-activities, which turn out to help the WBTS by making the XJW community look uneducated and ignorant in certain areas; while others make XJWs look like disgruntled nuts.

210

Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

by DannyHaszard in

jehovah's loses comp case

church may be forced to pay millions

by jess wisloski.

West70

AS:

Keep thinking on this, and I believe you will move even closer to my position.

I'm having a difficult time believing more people here don't fully understand what I'm saying about the disruptive impact that the introduction of WC rules, reds, etc would have on the FDS-Bethelite relationship.

Currently, the FDS has complete and total say-so over Bethel and the lives of Bethelites. The FDS is for all intents GOD.

Do you really think the FDS would allow ANY other "authority" to intrude on that relationship?

Especially, an "authority" that rules and overrules that of the FDS?

Especially, an "authority" that is "worldly"?

NO WAY will the FDS allow that to happen.

This UPTON situation has been going on for several years now. The FDS and LEGAL have already been "reacting" in anticipation of losing this fight.

How many "non-clerical" activities have already been eliminated over the past 3 or 4 years? WHY? To reduce the number of "volunteers" whose "activities" might be place them in the "employee" category for "WC purposes". If the report of the 25% cut is true, this only would be the latest reaction. There may be even more depending on what happens next at the WC Board and maye then the Courts.

I believe that Brooklyn still believes that even if it loses this Appeal it can still avoid being brought under WC if it eliminates most or all "non-clerical" functions and volunteers.

This is BIG NEWS, and it will continue to be BIG NEWS for several months regardless of how good or bad it turns out for the WBTS.

210

Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation

by DannyHaszard in

jehovah's loses comp case

church may be forced to pay millions

by jess wisloski.

West70

David:

You are the second person who has made a remark about my own "worst nightmare" remark, and both you and the other poster did not read, or at least did not comprehend, what I was saying.

My "worst nightmare" remark was made in regard to WBTS Legal's having to appear before a WCL Judge, where they have little if any clout (as opposed to appearances in regular civil courts before civil judges subject to certain precedents).

Just ask any Attorney who represents insurance companies before such.

However, you still don't "get it" with regard to the disruptive effect that the introduction of WC Coverage, along with its associated rules, regulations etc, would have on the relationship between Bethelites and the "Faithful and Discreet Slave".

First, the FDS "gets it", because this Upton case was either the primary motivating factor, or at a minimum "the final straw", behind the ongoing "layoffs". (Just like every "negative" thing Brooklyn does - they have a "better excuse" for their decisions.)

Due to legal considerations, most employers refuse to publicly acknowledge such, BUT "WC Insurance claims/issues" (and sometimes Health Insurance) is/are the most common sources of problems between employers and employees.

Although I disagree with most of the criticisms leveled at you personally in some of your prior threads/posts, I have noticed one valid criticism leveled at your posts. That is, you simply do not seem to have a good "feel" for the "culture" or "workings" of JWs or the Borg. I believe you have stated that you were reared JW. If so, your "rearing" was evidently atypical, because you missed out on essential parts of JWism somewhere. This is an observation from more than one person here. Please take such as constructive criticism. We need you in this fight.

Now, with regard to this WC ruling bleeding over into other areas - employment law, OSHA (mentioned by others), tax law, etc. As an attorney, you know that one of the first things you learned in law school was that what applies in one branch of the law does not necessarily apply in another branch.

WC law has the most inclusive definition of an "employee" of all branches - even tax law. WC Boards go out of their way to rule that an injured person is an "employee" so as to fulfill their "mission" to make certain injured persons have remedies. Thus, if this ruling is upheld, it will not serve as a precedent over at IRS, Labor Dept, etc.

However, what does sometimes happen is that the publicity from such causes those other folks to take a fresh look at their own past decisions, ...