Thanks, dozy, for the quotation. How utterly Freddie Franzesque:
"in the case of a pet or any other animal under the jurisdiction of a Christian."
careful
JoinedPosts by careful
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JW stance on blood transfusions for animals?
by phats inour dog needed some serius surgery recently & my wife (still in) was very concerned that if he needed a blood transfusion she thought this would constitute a misuse of blood.
i was stunned as never heard of this.. is this a thing?
i left 12 years ago & wondered if it's always been or introduced in the years after my leaving.. any info would be great.. phats.
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careful
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Does this make any sense “according to the number of the sons of Israel” ?
by I_love_Jeff inhow does god dividing humankind and fixing the boundaries of the peoples “according to the number of the sons of israel” make any sense if the nation of israel did not even exist yet?
(genesis 10) "it makes little sense for god, shortly after he dispersed the nations at babel, to have based the number of geographical regions on the earth on the family size of israel, especially since there was no jewish race at the time (genesis 10 table of nations).
this problem is compounded when one considers deuteronomy 32:9. what logical correlation was moses making when he wrote in verse 8 that god "set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of israel" and then made the concluding observation in verse 9 that "the lord's portion is his people, jacob his allotted inheritance" (niv)?
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ILJ,
You're welcome, and I'm
.I meant to say get some non-conservative source on this matter. There are non-conservative Protestant, Catholic and Jewish scholars.
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Does this make any sense “according to the number of the sons of Israel” ?
by I_love_Jeff inhow does god dividing humankind and fixing the boundaries of the peoples “according to the number of the sons of israel” make any sense if the nation of israel did not even exist yet?
(genesis 10) "it makes little sense for god, shortly after he dispersed the nations at babel, to have based the number of geographical regions on the earth on the family size of israel, especially since there was no jewish race at the time (genesis 10 table of nations).
this problem is compounded when one considers deuteronomy 32:9. what logical correlation was moses making when he wrote in verse 8 that god "set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of israel" and then made the concluding observation in verse 9 that "the lord's portion is his people, jacob his allotted inheritance" (niv)?
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careful
The books that make up the biblical canon were sometimes written long after their dramatic date, and this is especially the case with the Pentateuch. The date of composition does not = the time of the action. There are clues like at Gen 36:31, "these are the kings who reigned in the land of Edom before any king reigned over Israel." The last clause shows that this part of Genesis had to have been written some time after king Saul. You need to jettison the primitive, simplistic thinking of JWs or other religious conservatives, likely including this chap Heisner (since he quotes the NIV, he's a conservative), if you want to understand the Bible historically.
As for Deut 32:8, the last 5 chapters of Deut are known among scholars as being textually problematic. In fact, it may well be the most textually problematic large section of the Bible. The witnesses are the Masoretic Text (MT), Septuagint (LXX), the Samaritan Pentateuch (SP), and the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS). They do and do not match each other and are all over the place in these final chapters of Deut. Sometimes it's the SP and LXX vs. the MT. Other times it's DSS and LXX vs. the SP and MT. Other times it's MT vs. all the others. All combinations are possible.
There is a difference between the composition of the works way back when and how they have been transmitted down through time, but the two factors did interplay at times. Try to find some non-Protestant conservative sources on the composition and preservation of the OT text (Eugene Ulrich at Notre Dame is good on preservation), and forget the WTS having anything intelligent to say on the matter. They haven't got a clue here. The facts and principles are way over their heads, and their theology prevents them taking an honest look at these matters.
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New Governing Body member in video
by neat blue dog inhe hasn't been in the limelight before, so here's his debut:.
https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/latestvideos/pub-jwb_201804_13_video.
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careful
It's amazing, isn't it, that a guy who nobody has heard of much, can suddenly start partaking of the bread and wine at the memorial and then be launched into the limelight like this, with 8+ million people eagerly trusting him implicitly with their lives and all they hold dear?
NBD, thanks for the post.
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Mexican drug lord El Chapo personally killed 4 Witnesses in the 80's
by Richard_I inus prosecutors are reportedly considering charging 'el chapo' guzman with the killings of 6 us citizens and a dea agent.
"the first killings came on december 2, 1984, when four jehovah's witness missionaries, two men and two women, knocked on the door of a drug lord.
godoy, who was then also working as a body guard for ernesto fonseca, another guadalajara kingpin, said the missionaries were tortured and the women raped.
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Dropoff, Morpheus, and stillin,
READ the article from the LA Times that startingover linked on p. 1 of this post. These couples were going d2d like normal, sister with sister and bro. with bro. (like we all used to do) and were kidnapped, one group at a time. At the time of the article (1985) nobody knew what had happened to them except that some guys in a car grabbed them. Only with the arrest of Guzman and the federal prosecutors getting some of his underlings to flip and testify against him is the story of what happened now coming out. Apparently the cop/prosecutor got one part of the story about what led to their death ("they knocked on the wrong door") wrong. The rest seems accurate. Guzman believed they were narcs, so he had them picked up while they were out preaching, tortured them, raped the women, and then murdered them all. This was normal behavior for him. Evidently his henchmen had broken into their apartment a few days before this—read the LA Times article.
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Mexican drug lord El Chapo personally killed 4 Witnesses in the 80's
by Richard_I inus prosecutors are reportedly considering charging 'el chapo' guzman with the killings of 6 us citizens and a dea agent.
"the first killings came on december 2, 1984, when four jehovah's witness missionaries, two men and two women, knocked on the door of a drug lord.
godoy, who was then also working as a body guard for ernesto fonseca, another guadalajara kingpin, said the missionaries were tortured and the women raped.
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careful
Sort of reminds me of the Witness family killed by Goth teens in Tennessee back in 1997 when, fired up an assembly just attended, the husband/brother witnessed to them at a highway rest stop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillelid_murders
I don't the recall the org publicizing this one either. I think they are afraid that such things will cause the R&F to be afraid of doing the preaching work.
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WT and child protection
by Phoebe inmy friend has just returned from mid week meeting and emailed me to say 'this was released at meeting tonight' and sent me a 3 page document entitled 'jehovah's witness scripturally based position on child protection'.
has anyone else had this.
i'm in the uk.
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careful
I'd be interested in seeing it. I'm sure it doesn't go into their past history on the issue!
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Certificate Of Destruction--by request!
by Atlantis inin your message, you wanted to know what the "certificate ofdestruction" used by the watchtower records department looks like.
(as soon as atlantis gets a copy i'll send it to you.
)please view this leaked video and go to 33 minutes of the video.
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careful
Thanks for the post. A very revealing leak indeed, one perhaps foreshadowing the end of such leaks! I watched the entire thing to get the context and have some observations.
1. This is some kind of traveling school, for department heads from outside the USA. It looks like a branch overseers school for those under the branch committees. The British (?) accents of the audience members (elders) asking questions show the students are from outside the US. From references made it may have been part of a 3-week school (?).
2. The speaker is Canadian; he speaks with a Canadian accent but from his comments he serves at the US branch, and its time frame is difficult to ascertain. At one point it sounds like it was before the move to Warwick was completed. At another point it seems like the move was already done.
3. He early comments regarding how Satan is using the legal branch of society at large to attack the org, and how this is driving inner-org policy in multiple ways. Repeatedly he refers to legal cases, the Legal Department, and so on as the main reason for this whole records issue.
4. The very use of the word "policy" itself is interesting. Years ago the org would eschew using that word. At some point it has become acceptable—as it should have been along ago.
5. Note his point about the non-need to think; the org does thinking for you, so you don't have to worry about thinking.
6. 29:25-33 – "That hand-written note cost us a few hundred thousand dollars." 29:44-45 "The difficulty is that this happened more than once." Wow! No wonder they are so concerned with destroying documents.
7. Does anyone recognize this instructor? He said he works in a department of just two in NY (whether at Patterson or Warwick is hard to determine), comprised of himself and "Luke." His statement that their department has two expensive scanners, one of which can be checked out is also telling. Surely these scanners can keep a record of just who scans exactly what documents (see point 10 below).
8. 46:20-47:03. This is interesting. The question came up about whether one should keep something privately in order not to have to do the work already done before, but the record of that work was destroyed due to records management requirements. The instructor answers that yes, you'd have to do that research over again. Could this be a reason some "independently-minded person" (evil!) would violate the org's record destruction procedure?
9. The he says that if you (the audience members) do try and hide it or squirrel it away somewhere, "we can find it. We have ways and means, but we won't tell you what they are." (47:58-48:09) Big brother is watching! Put the fear of God and disfellowshiping in the branch workers.
10. Sharing one document electronically (the hidden goal here) instead of people having individual access to multiple hard copies is a good way of checking up on and controlling who is accessing that single copy. Surely one motive of the policy shift portrayed here is to catch moles who have been leaking material to Atlantis. No wonder this is being taught to the branches! Quite a number of leaked docs seen on this forum have been from branches outside the US. This seems to be one of the real reasons for this policy shift—as usual, MORE CONTROL FROM "MOTHER."
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Dog Day Afternoon at the Carts
by berrygerry inhttps://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/8fsaxu/so_this_just_happened/.
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careful
berrygerry—thx for the pic!
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careful
From the NZ news article posted above:
Elder Brooke Willoughby, who was overseeing the sale of the hall, said because the number of Jehovah's Witnesses was growing exponentially worldwide, the need for new halls kept growing.
Is he kidding himself, buying into the org's PR, or just playing along with the higher ups? Exponential growth worldwide? Maybe in some countries in Africa, but everywhere else it has flatlined or gone in reverse.