Posts by careful

37

Infighting at the top?

by JeffT in

jw
friends

we've all been trying to decipher what is going on at the top of the watchtower organization.

clearly, the game's afoot, we just don't know what game we're playing.

item: the constant harping about money and donations.

careful

You're right about being in the dark alright! This post makes me think of so many others here based entirely on conjecture, the same thing we all saw when we were in among the Witness R&F and elders!

So who "at the top" is involved? In one sense the GB is like any other elder body. They undoubtedly have their differences in closed meeting sessions, but must present a unified front outside their meetings, as many of us have witnessed and even participated in while we were in our local congos. But you would have to delineate just who is who on the GB, who the liberals and hard liners are, who the weak pushovers and who the alpha dogs are. Do you have some insight here?

Clearly Tony Morris and David Splane are the top dogs. But where do the others fit in? I have heard that Jackson is somewhat liberal and Sanderson too, but I don't know if that's substantial. Herd seems rather a beta than an alpha type. Lett, well, who knows? A loose canon, but probably harmless and easily controlled by the alphas. Lösch, I dunno... maybe the wannabe as someone here said once...

So where here is the power struggle? If you postulate a power grab by those below the GB, as some here really really want to believe, then you have some serious issues with their forced acceptance of the GB's power and the fact that if they are ever found out, they can easily be axed, especially in the current climate of Bethel dismissals. Hmm...

Finally, as you yourself recognize, any appearance of disunity at the top would be devastating to the R&F. As daft as the GB are most of the time, they are bright enough to recognize that fact as well, and they would likely do whatever they need to do to avoid such a perception by the R&F.

19

Lawrence Onoda, Ph.D., Jehovah's Witness Psychologist

by Maryo in

in about 1980 i came to know of and meet one time with lawrence onoda, ph.d., a jehovah's witness psychologist [also i think elder] in southern california.

i was shocked to know there was such a thing in view of the wts traditional stance against jws consulting such a person!

he had been one of jws for six years at that time, i recall.

careful

He was a professor at Cal State Northridge, but retired some years ago. His private practice was (is?) all JWs. He is not the only JW psychologist either, though they are rare. He was mentioned in some early posts on this forum, though they do not seem to have survived the transition to the new board here. Another Witness psychologist once told me that he and Onoda were backed up with Witness patients. Now why is that not surprising?

As for him still being in, he puts faith in the org, and thus compartmentalizes his critical thinking ability. As a loyal one, he would not apply such thinking to the org. That would be playing into Satan's hands in his mind.

11

Do JW's still go door-to-door?

by Dark Knight in

with the rise of the new literature cart method of preaching, i'm curious as to how the traditional jw preaching work is organized.

the other reason i ask this is that i hardly see jw's door-knocking anymore.are they still going door-to-door and tracking how regularly their territory is covered?

are they still using territory maps and keeping track of do-not-calls, ethnic/deaf houses etc?i'm also curious as to how the literature cart ministry is organized.

careful

In the recent 18-month period they've come to my door 5 or 6 times all the while having a cart at the local Wal Mart. Since I've gone inactive, I cannot help you with those in-house questions you are asking.

33

Elder continues serving as elder after his daughter got disfellowshipped!

by hardtobeme in

this is what is happening in a spanish congregation in our area.

this happened 3 weeks ago.

this brother conducted the school and after the school was over, another elder gave the announcement: "( name of the person) is not longer a jehovah's witness".

careful

I saw plenty of times when elders would continue to serve after their kids were DFed and other times when the guy would get the ax. Sometimes it depends on whether the elder in question had the right connections or not, or others on the BOE who would pounce on the situation and use it to get rid of a rival.

27

Demonic art in the watchtower?

by Lost and adrift in

does anybody remember a rumour or maybe it was a truth?

?...something about hidden pictures or symbols in the artwork of the watchtower.

was it one of those urban legends?

careful

Like jookbeard said, Darek Barebook (note the correct spelling of his first name) wrote an entire book on the matter with some convincing evidence, at least in some pictures. The book was entitled "JWs and the Hour of Darkness" but it's out of print now. He argued the hidden images were demonic. He and his entire family (parents, brother, wife, kids) were all DFed over it.

Used copies are expensive now, over $100.

http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/author/darek-barefoot/

There some Italian ex-JW who runs a website devoted to further examples of the hidden things in the pics since Barefoot's book. Plenty of others have also done so. See this link:

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=jehovah+witness+art&as_epq=hidden+images&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=

6

My Bethel Experience Part 9

by new boy in

the worst thing, someone could call you at bethel, was a "jack.

" as in "that guy is a real jack, he doesn't work at all".

the other term not used very much anymore, was "pot licker" used basically the same way.

careful

These Bethel experiences are priceless. Keep them coming please. When I need some laughs, I find myself turning to your posts. With four years under your belt there, you must have hundreds more experiences to tell!

30

What are the economics of cart witnessing?

by slimboyfat in

on another thread shepherdless sketched out the past business model of jws and its demise.

until 1990 they were a straightforward publishing business with the tremendous advantage of free labour in production and free distribution agents.

since then they've been relying on donations for literature to keep the old model going.

careful

Wow, too bad for SBF that the posts got so far off track from the OP. I have no idea of how economics is at work with the carts. Perhaps it a non-issue, the real reasons for the carts being as some have stated above: easy time for pioneers, something of a witness to the world without expecting conversions, status-winning for those permitted to man them. Maybe too it is some feeble attempt in the GB's mind to reach out to, or just a give a witness to, all those folks who are not at home when the publishers come around.

In the territory I live in the Witnesses have come around 6 times or more in the past 18 months. They regularly have a cart at the local Walmart too, and I have intentionally tried to strike up a conversation with those manning them, but to no avail. That's what has struck me about those things. Back when I was in, I would have jumped at the chance to grab a potential "Bible study" from someone who would stop by! But no, they don't do that. That strikes me as very strange.

Beth Sarim: "I can't believe that JW's actually count service time by just aimlessly standing there."

Don't you remember putting in plenty of time going from one return visit to another without anyone being home, indeed without any non-JW ever seeing you? Is this so different? At least this way, "you're still giving them a witness, brother", right?

49

Kim and mikeys chanel on YouTube they uploaded a video of more singing and dancing

by Crazyguy in

on their chanel they are showing a video of a special assembly day in belgium i believe.

the jws are dancing dressed in black and red, satanic colores.

singing and playing worldly songs and kingdom melodies.

careful

It seems the R&F are interpreting the GB's widely publicized embracing of electronic technology, the net, and broadcasting in their own ways! Both the "Happy @ Bethel" vid and this one show that. The "don't-ever-think-out-the-consequences-of-our-decisons" mentality of the GB has really come back to bite them in the butt on this one!

22

The new Fred Franz?

by careful in

of course, no one could ever fully replace "our oracle for over 50 years" (ray franz quoting karl klein or someone else on the gb back in the days of gb i in cofc somewhere ), but i have to wonder just who on gb ii has come to fill fred franz's shoes the most.

it seems like it is david splane.

he appears to be in charge of the writing department, proposes and pushes thru the gb most of the doctrinal changes (he announces them so they're his baby), and like ff, fancies himself musically inclined.

careful

BB: "The best part of the Fred Franz legacy is that the vast majority of his stuff isn't even considered doctrine anymore." Funny! But do you see what I meant in the OP that Splane hasn't replaced FF's docrines with anything, except once in a great while, for example, with the obscure and strange overlapping generations mystery?

prologos: Just wondering, how does the "The"I am the boss" aura never left D. Splane" jibe with being humble, spiritual, and all that?

22

The new Fred Franz?

by careful in

of course, no one could ever fully replace "our oracle for over 50 years" (ray franz quoting karl klein or someone else on the gb back in the days of gb i in cofc somewhere ), but i have to wonder just who on gb ii has come to fill fred franz's shoes the most.

it seems like it is david splane.

he appears to be in charge of the writing department, proposes and pushes thru the gb most of the doctrinal changes (he announces them so they're his baby), and like ff, fancies himself musically inclined.

careful

Wow, such great responses! Thanks very much.

Magnum, your thoughts are choice and much appreciated. Agreed on the history, and the net factors you point out give me plenty of food for thought. Your thoughts on Splane?

OTWO, "We aren't in money trouble, but we are in money trouble." Love it!

SBF: "There's no way in hell Freddy would have come up with the overlapping generations fiasco." Spot on!

Gorby, "Splane sounds like he invented their fables itself." Speaks volumes, eh?

blondie, I once used one of those JW libraries at Wallkill, but the one in the Writing Department that Barbara Anderson has described is the biggie. I imagine that it's still open to WD members. Love your "jws today have been trained to accept dumbed down." So true, so true.

NEJ: "GB today strikes me as a collection of uninspired bureaucrats. They rose through the ranks due to their unyielding loyalty." Right!

So where does Splane fit in? He's smarter than Herd or Lett, but that's probably not saying much. He seems to love the limelight as much as Morris does. Like every body of elders, there are those who are dominant and those who just go along. I see Splane, like Morris, and perhaps more recently Sanderson as the dominant ones. Someone here once said Lösch is a wanna-be, and that seems to be the case. Jackson is an enigma in my mind.

prologos: THIS is the kind of info I'm looking for. I did not have personal exposure to most of these guys when I was in, so your words about Splane's talks are appreciated. Wish to share any of these "artifacts" or any more info?