Posts by careful

8

Help needed finding an old WT article

by careful in

i no longer trust the search engine at the official jw website since they have quietly modified, purged, and expunged—or simply made no longer available—so many old works/pubs., so i'm asking for help finding an old article that likely predates the late 1970s (?).

i think it was an article rather than in a book, but i can't be sure.

the article's focus was on what it means for the anointed to be declared righteous.. it's important, i suspect, for grasping the view that whatever the gb decide is completely god-directed, so that, in effect, even though the org might officially deny it, the gb are viewed as infallible in practical terms.

careful

I no longer trust the search engine at the official JW website since they have quietly modified, purged, and expunged—or simply made no longer available—so many old works/pubs., so I'm asking for help finding an old article that likely predates the late 1970s (?). I think it was an article rather than in a book, but I can't be sure. The article's focus was on what it means for the anointed to be declared righteous.

It's important, I suspect, for grasping the view that whatever the GB decide is completely God-directed, so that, in effect, even though the org might officially deny it, the GB are viewed as infallible in practical terms. In the article, doubtlessly the product of their lone prophet of the time Fred Franz, he used the passage at Rom. 8:31 through the first sentence in v. 34. He may have also included the passage at Is. 54:17, since in the last passage, near the end, the words "And their righteousness is from me" are found. He may also have tied in Matt. 18:18-20 which implies that any decision the anointed may make on earth has been made beforehand in heaven. But, as I recall, the stress was on that Romans passage.

Any help anyone can provide in finding this article would be most appreciated. I suspect that this belief is why we have never heard any admission of error on the part of the GB of the sort that even people like Rutherford were wiling to admit in earlier days, with his "I made an ass of myself" statement over his 1925 and Beth-Sarim debacle.

Thanks in advance.

33

Door-to-door preaching as surveillance

by john.prestor in

i wanted to share some thoughts about jehovah's witnesses and their door-to-door preaching.

door-to-door preaching is supposedly about gathering converts, but in fact, as we frequently discuss, doesn't actually bring that many "sheep-like ones" in.

i want to suggest that a second meaning (what we call the latent meaning in academia) is facilitating surveillance of the congregants who attend some congregation.

careful

Two thoughts: 1. Most Witnesses who believe it all would not want to celebrate holidays.

2. "surveillance of the congregants," as you put it, is so imbued into the Witness life that it permeates everything Witnesses do, the field service/ministry included. The last should not be singled out as something special in this regard.

23

Noah 'warning the people'

by KW13 in

jw
friends

am i imagining this?at the kingdom hall we were told many times that noah warned the others about the coming flood and was ridiculed but actually there is no evidence of this in the bible!there is however evidence to the contrary.

matthew 24:37-39.

37 as it was in the days of noah, so it will be at the coming of the son of man.

careful

The belief that Noah preached, warning people of the coming flood, was common in the non-biblical Jewish literature at that time. If you want to read what his supposed message was, see Josephus Antiquities 1.74, and the Jewish Sibylline Oracles 1.182-90). It's just like Jannes and Jambres' names as the Egyptian priests who opposed Moses. Such traditions arose among the fertile minds of Jews at the time, trying to fill in what the Bible does not say. The author of 2 Peter 2:5 picked up on this, like the writer of 2 Tim. 3:8 did on Jannes and Jambres, but there's nothing in Genesis or Exodus of these kinds of details. Plenty of extra-canonical literature had arisen among the Jews at that time, and some NT writers included bits of it. Later rabbinic literature also includes such things.

42

February 2018 Watchtower - Addressing abuse Victims

by Listener in

there's a preview note on one of the articles in this newly released watchtower.

the note can be found on an article titled "part 1 of 4 love and justice in ancient israel".the note states -.

this article is the first in a series of four that will discuss why we can be sure that jehovah cares about us.

careful

Thanks, Listener, for alerting us via this post. It looks like an early "baby step" in changing a bit of policy on this large and complex matter. As others have pointed out, much more is needed. I believe you mean February 2019, not 2018, right? BTW, these are all "study" articles.

First installment:

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-february-2019/love-justice-ancient-israel/

I wonder if this is partly an effort to "reward" those abuse victims who have stayed in and not sued the org, as strange as that may seem. It is likely also somewhat a response to the pressure being brought on them from outside.

13

Blondies Thoughts on Generous Giving WT article for Octobeer 21, 2018

by blondie in

jw
friends

quotethe word christ signifies anointed.

anointing means designation to official position in god’s arrangement.

the christ is the instrument or channel for the blessing of mankind.

careful

Blondie,

What I mean is how are they "found"? It seems like a major change in this regard has taken place from CTR's time till today. Back then it seemed they were just looking to find them by drawing anyone out of the churches and into association with Russell and the Bible Students.

I've been out for decades. When I was in, Fred Franz's theology ruled in everything. He taught that all of the remnant had been found before 1935 and were all already in the Witness fold. The only way one could get into the chosen group after '35 was if one already in proved unfaithful and had to be replaced, a supposedly rare occurrence.

Then when there were so few of these self-professed anointed males left, they had to change their policy or they'd have no ultimate, final-say leadership. It looks to me like the policy has come about that the only way such ones are now "found" is if they are already in the full-time service for most of their lives, always been loyal yes men, and suddenly start partaking of the emblems at the Memorial. Isn't that the case for all those now on the GB? So then isn't that how they are now "found"?

I'd be happy to be corrected here if I've got anything wrong here.

13

Blondies Thoughts on Generous Giving WT article for Octobeer 21, 2018

by blondie in

jw
friends

quotethe word christ signifies anointed.

anointing means designation to official position in god’s arrangement.

the christ is the instrument or channel for the blessing of mankind.

careful

What do you think CTR meant with the words "shall have been found"? Do you think the current org view has modified on that point? If so, how?

7

New development on the legal front

by careful in

the feds are finally getting involved, so the child abuse issue is moving up from just the state lea level.

it's with the catholic church so far, and only in pennsylvania:.

https://www.apnews.com/52c119e968c24640a8d2ec5db834759a.

careful

The feds are finally getting involved, so the child abuse issue is moving up from just the state LEA level. It's with the Catholic church so far, and only in Pennsylvania:

https://www.apnews.com/52c119e968c24640a8d2ec5db834759a

We'll have to wait and see if they widen their investigation.

9

Secret documents from WHQ: JWs do everything to avoid reporting CSA

by jochie in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clbnspvradui have seen the documents myself but i am not able to share them without jeopardizing the source.the rtl broadcasting company has spoken to the orginal source and we know that these documents are real..

careful

dubstepped—spot on!

When I was in, another bro and I used to joke about some publisher doing something stupid that was supposed to remain "confidential" and we'd say, "Oh, he/she'll just wind up as another Kingdom Ministry School experience."

37

Possible leak from Annual Meeting 2018

by Listener in

i'm a member on jw talk (until now at least) and have been regularly checking up on their thread regarding the annual meeting.

there hasn't been a great deal to report on except for this recent post that has been made.

i may get outed but that's no loss.

careful

Della Street,

If there's any real info, keep us posted!

33

Court documents reveal Watchtower's tactics in Montana child abuse case

by LevelThePlayingField in

there were numerous objections and claims that watchtower lawyers made to try and get out of being held responsible for their negligence and malice.

here’s the juicy ones:.

montana is a mandatory reporting state, but watchtower lawyers claimed that the law for reporting abuse only applies to “individuals” and they are “corporations”.

careful

This Montana case is forcing more WT secret info out into the public domain, doubtless to the great annoyance of the GB. Two things are striking. First, I have long been suspicious that this Vow of Obedience and Poverty that all Bethelites must sign is for more than just tax purposes. It's clear here that it is also an attempt to shelter Bethel workers from child abuse reporting laws by their supposedly being protected by clergy-penitent privilege.

More interesting is the second, related thing. It seems that some of these lower courts have gone ahead and made decisions on enforcing the child abuse reporting laws that are on the books without considering how they may be in conflict with the legal status of clergy-penitent privilege.

Regardless of what we may individually think about this matter, and, of course, not all countries have the idea of clergy-penitent privilege built into their legal systems, apparently no higher US courts have ruled on the inherent conflict between child abuse reporting laws and the legal principle behind clergy-penitent privilege. Otherwise, the GB's attempt to hide behind the latter would be of no legal value. The opposing lawyers would simply call to the attention of the judge that such a matter has already been decided in "such-and-such" case. But they have not done so.

Does anyone know if such a decision is working its way through the higher courts anywhere? If not, the GB's stance may eventually force it—after all, neither the Catholic church nor any other religious groups have attempted such legal argumentation. Perhaps Barb Anderson can answer this question?