wizzstick

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Posts by wizzstick

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  8

  Cultural JWs

  by wizzstick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  following a comment by sapphy on another thread on cultural jws, it got me thinking about my circle of 30 something jw friends.. they fall into roughly two groups.

  couples without kids, couples with kids.. the couples without kids are the most interesting.

  they're mainly career types, but with one foot firmly in jw land.

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  wizzstick

  Totally ADD,

  I'm in a capital city, with 8M people, so I think you're right. Probably a more prosperous area = different JWs'
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  8

  Cultural JWs

  by wizzstick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  following a comment by sapphy on another thread on cultural jws, it got me thinking about my circle of 30 something jw friends.. they fall into roughly two groups.

  couples without kids, couples with kids.. the couples without kids are the most interesting.

  they're mainly career types, but with one foot firmly in jw land.

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  wizzstick

  Following a comment by Sapphy on another thread on cultural JWs, it got me thinking about my circle of 30 something JW friends.

  They fall into roughly two groups. Couples without kids, couples with kids.

  The couples without kids are the most interesting. They're mainly career types, but with one foot firmly in JW land. On the one hand, they go on lots of holidays. They are into running. They read lots of books and watch lots of films. They're culturally aware. They're bright intelligent people. On the other hand they'll do the pioneer thing in March. Keen to apply the career ideas to the Truth. Publisher to MS to Elder.

  Never the less, they're a fun bunch. When we're together we laugh and share stuff. Interestingly the one thing that never gets talked about is spiritual things. Never comes up. And that's the weird thing. They're all born in, and all just accept. It's so frustrating. One old friend has a beard, which he keeps so he won't be asked to do anything. So I thought he'd be good to talk to about the July WT.

  Here's a cut and paste (with minimal edits for anonymity reasons) of our Google Chat conversation:

  11:42 me : You read the July 15th WT yet? 11:46 Friend : No Summarise, as if twitter length me : Ok in tweets 11:47 The Faith and Discrete Slave (FDS) is the Governing Body of JWs The FDS has only existed since 1919 11:48 Charles Taze Russell was not used by God There is no evil slave class They were appointed over his belongings in 1919 11:49 Have not been appointed over the domestics as yet (but they will be) Friend : Does anybody care? This is all in the past, right? me : Ha True 11:50 Most will think 'didn't we always believe this'?! Friend : Feel like there's a bigger picture to all these little tweaks me : I think so I wonder if they'll ditch 607 - 1914 by next year 11:51 I suspect its cos we've got a new GB (in effect) Friend : New thoughts are always about things I didn't understand or didn't even know about. me : HA Out with the old in with the new 11:52 Friend : To be honest they could change everything and I wouldn't care. In some ways I probably have more faith than others because I'd just blindly accept it without looking it up myself. In other ways it probably shows I have no appreciation, or something. 11:53 I'm not really a details man in this regard me : Thats how most JWs who were 'born in' are I've realised. Friend : Yeah me : For many its like being a Catholic or Protestant Its there religion Like whatever the football team is they support 11:54 Dosn't matter whether its real or made up! Friend : yeah - let's just skip the fussy fluffy details me : Yep (Having re-read the above I realise some of my summary of the WT was a bit off by the way) Incredible. This guy is bright as a button, but just accepts it all. In fact, as you can see with his 11:52 comment, he doesn't really care. This group, as I said above, have no kids. 7 couples. All 30 something. Given that most baptismal candidates are from within, and if this continues, then where will the next gen of candidates come from in years to come? In fact locally, the few families that there are have moved from three congs into one as they were the only family in their cong. We've moved too, so this one cong is has a few families now. Cultural JW's. Born in's. Happy with the staus quo. I guess one waits till something happens before they'll listen.
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  88

  jw.org store in Rouen, France

  by breakfast of champions in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcvnhohno4.

  naaaahh.

  we're not a business.

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  wizzstick

  Here's the video on You Tube:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVCVnHoHNo4&list=UULS-YJqSpDC9LjGN-sSjHFg&index=1

  Interestingly this brothers You Tube site (https://www.youtube.com/user/KamilLeviPyka?feature=watch) has a link to his Twitter account.

  The link is broken but a quick search on Twitter find this annointed brother again: https://twitter.com/yahuwah5577

  These new annointed are getting like policeman, younger and younger!

  I love the internet.
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  62

  Should I just DA or get DFD?

  by Julia Orwell in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my never-a-jw dad told me today that mongrel jws who turn on me were never truly my friends and i'm better off without them, so why worry if i get disfellowshiped?.

  i fear being disfellowshiped because my name will be dragged through the mud.

  i also think it might be a good idea to da or get dfd because then the link is broken and the fade is over.

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  wizzstick

  As a new poster I don't feel I can add much to what others have said.

  But on balance, I would stop all meetings and ministry stuff. If they call just say sorry, I'm still very depressed from my last visit. Say goodbye and hang up.

  If they visit same thing. Close the door.

  Keep doing that every time they call.

  Quite quickly they'll stop as they will consider it a waste of time. But time is your friend. People will forget. People will move on. Those real friends will make contact and say sorry. If that happens talk to them on the proviso of not taking about religion. Say the same to your husbands family. Firmly. But if they then bring up religion ask them to leave.

  It will make you feel strong, it will make them know where you stand. But also they won't be able to say you have talked negatively about the Truth.

  Win, win.
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  9

  Reasoning with friends

  by wizzstick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  following my first two posts i'd like again to say thank-you for the welcome i've received.

  it's taken along time to feel that i could post.

  i'd tried before, but the guilt of associating with those that god disapproved of was too much.

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  wizzstick

  Thanks all for your helpful comments. Punkofnice and jgnat I'm aware I need to read carefully. There are literally just a handful of friends who I will, at some point, take them through this. Carefully, when I know they'll be most receptive. It's sad to have to think in cunning terms with friends but sadly that's how it feels.

  Thanks AnnOMaly for your review and your comments. I'll look up the '04 WT, and update my notes. Really appreciate those suggestions.

  I really feel for you Julia, reading your postings sounds like you're in a world of pain. Will reply on your latest thread.
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  32

  My JW Experiences and Living in No Mans Land

  by wizzstick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  lots of proper pioneering (90 hours), lots of calls, lots of studies, lots of interest.

  enough to make it all interesting.

  driving this buzz was the sense that armageddon was imminent.. my father was never a jw, and was very opposed.

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  wizzstick

  Thanks all for your comments.

  I imagine I'll still be here in months and years to come. My wifes health is poorly, and the new world hope keeps her going. But that wont't stop me from researching what the Truth really is.
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  50

  My Story - a (kinda) newbie from the UK

  by wizzstick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after lurking for 7 and half years (is that a record?!

  ) its time for me to say hello.. so who am i, and whats my story?.

  im a born in jw, with all my siblings, mother, wife and children in.

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  wizzstick

  Thanks again all for your replies. It's really helped me on this journey.

  Wizzstick how is your family dealing with your inactivity? Just to compare notes Mine is running the full Monthy show. Just one relative keeps contact with me, visits me and calls to know how I feel (not talking me back - me thinks he is "probing" his way out).

  The only plus of my wifes poor health is that I'm very much on the back seat Truth wise. Miss lots of ministry, lots of meetings. When we are there I'm needed to help her and the kids so I'm not attending and I'm off the school. So have it very easy compared to many others who go through this crisis whilst 'flying high' in the Truth.

  I did talk to my wife once, but she became tearful. The new world hope keeps her going. So I can't talk about it anymore. That's ok. As above my life in the Truth is easier than most.

  I answered your question in a private pm.

  Thank-you, I have replied.

  Let us know how the fading process goes. I notice that we all have things in common, but it is a different experience for every person. Some can cope and some, unfortunately become completely broken, like my good friend oompa.

  As with the above family situation, I think I'll be ok for now. I've already sort of faded alot due to the health stuff.

  Thanks again for the kind words.
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  9

  Reasoning with friends

  by wizzstick in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  following my first two posts i'd like again to say thank-you for the welcome i've received.

  it's taken along time to feel that i could post.

  i'd tried before, but the guilt of associating with those that god disapproved of was too much.

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  wizzstick

  Following my first two posts I'd like again to say thank-you for the welcome I've received. It's taken along time to feel that I could post. I'd tried before, but the guilt of associating with those that God disapproved of was too much. I guess I must be moving on.

  I've mentioned that I'm trying to explain my doubts/questions to my closest friends. All quite left wing types (have watched many an 18 or R-rated movie with me when we were single, much interested in topical affairs etc.).

  I used the wondeful JW Facts site simply to collect quotes from WT literature. Put each one on a Powerpoint slide and in chronological order. That seems to have had quite an impact. But I want to to try and explain how I've always doubted the elaborate way we build a spiritual collage from different bit of the Bible.

  I came across http://jwsrefined.com/2012/12/16/1914-a-marked-year-in-the-bible/ and liked how the writer lists all the below points from different WT publications into a (crazy) picture:

  • The Son of man’s rule in Daniel 2:44 and 7:14 began in 1914, but the son of man’s coming and enthronement in Matthew 24: 30 and 25:31 are in the future.

  • Jesus sat on a throne (as king) in 1914, but will sit on another throne (as judge) at the great tribulation.

  • Jesus arrived in 1919 to appoint a faithful and discreet slave but will arrive again in the future as king.

  • Jesus began ruling in 1914, but the millennial (1000 years) reign of Christ does not begin until after the great tribulation.

  • The separation of the wheat and the weeds began in 1919, but the separation of the sheep and the goats happens during the great tribulation.

  • Jesus became the ruler of kingdom of the world (Rev 6) in 1914, but Satan is still the ruler of the world (1 John 5:13).

  • Jesus was given all authority in heaven and earth after his resurrection (Matt 28:19, 20), but received even more authority in 1914 and will get more again at Armageddon.

  • Jesus came as the messenger of Malachi 3:1 in 1919 to judge all of Christendom, but does not sit on a throne ‘of judgement’ (Matt 25:30-31) until the great tribulation.

  • Babylon the Great was judged and fell in 1919, but false religion is yet to be destroyed.

  • The Anglo-American world power received a ‘death-stroke’ in World War 2, but the stone carved with human hands from the mountain is yet to strike the feet made of iron and clay (Daniel 4).

  • The ‘gentile times’ ended in 1914, but human gentile governments and rulers still exercise complete power over all the earth’s affairs to this day.

  • The resurrection of most of the dead anointed occurred in 1919, but the marriage of the Lamb occurs at Armageddon.

  • The bridegroom returned in 1914, and the doors to the marriage feast were closed after throwing out the foolish virgins, but many more thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses have received an anointing since then.

  • The master of the household went away in 33AD, then he returned to appoint the FDS in 1919, and then he “arrives” at the great tribulation to appoint the faithful slave over “all his belongings”.

  • The Kingdom was established in 1914 but the “sheep” do not “inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the founding of the world” (Matt 25) until after Armageddon.

  I'm spending a lot of time reading non-JW stuff so wanted to check that the above was an accurate picture of current JW beliefs. If I pop those on a powerpoint, what could a JW argue back on? Are there any errors? Looks right to me, but I think there are some points that could be argued back (like the second point on thrones - isn't that the same throne but looked at in differengt ways?). Could any elders or ex-elders pull the above apart for me or suggest ways to improve it?

  Appreciate your help. I have a few close friends that I'd like to have on this journey with me.
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  27

  Why do JWs stay despite doubts & discoveries about JW Beliefs?

  by ProfCNJ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if we are going to create a pie chart with the following categories, what could be the main components-reasons and their respective percentages for just staying in the organization in spite of the doubts, discoveries about the jw doctrines/beliefs?

  i doubt if the topmost reason is because of love of jehovah god and his son jesus christ.

  your inputs dear friends and fellow brothers will be most appreciated.. a. below 40 years old.

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  wizzstick

  I've had a few conversations with friends about my doubts. All intelligent guys. And all of them went quiet and said, where else do we go? So they're all deeply tied to an organisation.

  It's hard to get round that. At the moment I agree and say, I've got no where else to go but I've still got these questions. That seems to placate them.
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  142

  CO Disfellowshipped in UK

  by konceptual99 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so, i have it on very good authority that a co has recently been disfellowshipped in the uk.

  he has just finished serving the north west london area.

  i don't know any details but perhaps there is someone who does know what happened.

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  wizzstick

  I was told the name in passing but didn't know the person in question so forgot it.

  It was, how can I say this, an African sounding name. South London circuit I think.