I wouldn't say guilt... but I remember for about 5 years after leaving I would inexplicably have most Thursday nights free and get a funny feeling I should be doing something?!
M*A*S*H
JoinedPosts by M*A*S*H
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22
Do You Have Any Indoctrinated Guilt Left Over?
by pale.emperor ini voted this morning for the first time.
at 32yo i wondered in a church of england parish hall with no idea what i was doing.
everyone else knew how to do it.
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30
1914 is the Key !
by Phizzy ini thought this deserved its own topic.
it is a thought that occurred to me as i read the wt rag that i took to be polite.. it is the public one about the 4 horseman, and it struck me that they are still 100% reliant on their false 1914 doctrine to hang everything on.. if 1914 is proved wrong, what can the credibility of their doomsday message hang on ?.
we all know how to disprove the old 2520 years nonsense, but they seem to at last be hiding that, and simply claiming that world events prove jesus slung the devil out of heaven in 1914.. so, what has that old devil done since 1914, 103 years ago ?.
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M*A*S*H
I would love that to work. I wish anyone the best of luck attempting it. However, I do not think there are many examples on this board of JWs being directly 'reasoned' or 'argued' out by an external influence. In my experience presenting a challenge to an indoctrinated person is nearly always viewed as a 'test of faith' an opportunity show off their spiritual qualities.
Obviously you might have results with someone experiencing doubts or someone already looking to leave. IMHO for someone to help a JW out of the Borg involves creating space between the follower and the organisation.
I expect many have researched this personally and discovered the 1914 date issue and I believe that is different. If a member is looking for inconsistencies in the faith, they are probably already drifting away.
So I suppose my concern would be, at worst, attempts to argue doctrinal matters could potentially strengthen the faith of some. Of course... you can lead a horse to water...
Anyway, if you do get the chance to discuss this with a JW let us know what happens!
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30
1914 is the Key !
by Phizzy ini thought this deserved its own topic.
it is a thought that occurred to me as i read the wt rag that i took to be polite.. it is the public one about the 4 horseman, and it struck me that they are still 100% reliant on their false 1914 doctrine to hang everything on.. if 1914 is proved wrong, what can the credibility of their doomsday message hang on ?.
we all know how to disprove the old 2520 years nonsense, but they seem to at last be hiding that, and simply claiming that world events prove jesus slung the devil out of heaven in 1914.. so, what has that old devil done since 1914, 103 years ago ?.
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M*A*S*H
I simply cannot agree. The 1914 date is already almost impossible to defend. I expect the more intelligent JWs already understand this.
The mental gymnastics the GB and JW 'rank and file' can resolve is simply more powerful than the 1914 date. Is the date important? Yes, of course. Can this date be adjusted? Yes, of course. Can the date become part of cloudy old light? Yes, of course.
Do most of the rank and file care if the date was 1914, 1919 or 19xx? Not really I would guess. Remember the GB will be praised (by themselves and rank and file) for continuing to shine 'new light' and provide 'food and the proper time'.
As I have previously mentioned, personally I believed that changing the 'generation' teaching would have a massive impact... effectively they betrayed beliefs and trust of "millions now living", that was a real betrayal. What was the impact?....
The GB could easily leave the 1914 date 'as is'... and just let the importance fade. Alternatively they could alter the date as an academic or spiritual exercise. But, just remember, JWs should not be arrogant and step ahead of the organisation, it is always best to 'wait on Jehovah'.
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30
1914 is the Key !
by Phizzy ini thought this deserved its own topic.
it is a thought that occurred to me as i read the wt rag that i took to be polite.. it is the public one about the 4 horseman, and it struck me that they are still 100% reliant on their false 1914 doctrine to hang everything on.. if 1914 is proved wrong, what can the credibility of their doomsday message hang on ?.
we all know how to disprove the old 2520 years nonsense, but they seem to at last be hiding that, and simply claiming that world events prove jesus slung the devil out of heaven in 1914.. so, what has that old devil done since 1914, 103 years ago ?.
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M*A*S*H
@waton
Sorry I was using the word 'generation' in the traditional sense. What I meant was there was a generation of witnesses that did truly have a vested interest in the 1914 date. "Millions now living will never die" was their great hope. This is the broken link to which I was referring.
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30
1914 is the Key !
by Phizzy ini thought this deserved its own topic.
it is a thought that occurred to me as i read the wt rag that i took to be polite.. it is the public one about the 4 horseman, and it struck me that they are still 100% reliant on their false 1914 doctrine to hang everything on.. if 1914 is proved wrong, what can the credibility of their doomsday message hang on ?.
we all know how to disprove the old 2520 years nonsense, but they seem to at last be hiding that, and simply claiming that world events prove jesus slung the devil out of heaven in 1914.. so, what has that old devil done since 1914, 103 years ago ?.
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M*A*S*H
@Phizzy
Do you really believe that the rank and file are in the religion because of the 1914 date? The 1914 date is simply another 'truth' susceptible to 'new light'.
I think the major reason that most JWs had (ie in the past) a vested interest in 1914 date was because it anchored the 'generation' that would see the end times. This link has been broken... this didn't cause a major walk out or revolution.
Personally I do not believe altering or gradually reducing the importance of the 1914 date will make much difference. Some will see it as a relief I'm sure; Borg HQ have not produce any accurate prophetic dates so far.
In fact I would go as far as to say dropping this last date discovered by biblical numerology will actually free the religion. (Not long after I expect you would see Watchtowers released criticising religions for relying on such superstitious nonsense.)
Ultimately, only time will tell.
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14
Ex JW Campaign Day
by Tight Pants Twinkle Toes inhi folks, tight pants twinkle toes here - my first post.
i am the husband of the new poster finally left.
we both recently left, my wife after 43 years and 46 years for me.
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M*A*S*H
Welcome TPTT.
Read part of your story via your other half's posts. It re-enforced my belief that creating space between a JW and the Borg is the best way to help people out (and I mean the best way an external person can help).
In your case dancing lessons helped create space. For me it was sports. For some it is just time away from meetings. Indirectly encouraging JWs with doubts to create space between themselves and the Borg HQ will allow some of the 'hard coded thinking' to melt away hopefully allowing there doubts and critical thinking skills to come to the fore.
Instead of preaching door to door again... I would rather a 'Take a doubting JW to the pub day' once a week :) Especially as I can't dance!
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30
1914 is the Key !
by Phizzy ini thought this deserved its own topic.
it is a thought that occurred to me as i read the wt rag that i took to be polite.. it is the public one about the 4 horseman, and it struck me that they are still 100% reliant on their false 1914 doctrine to hang everything on.. if 1914 is proved wrong, what can the credibility of their doomsday message hang on ?.
we all know how to disprove the old 2520 years nonsense, but they seem to at last be hiding that, and simply claiming that world events prove jesus slung the devil out of heaven in 1914.. so, what has that old devil done since 1914, 103 years ago ?.
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M*A*S*H
IMHO 1914 is not really the key to anything. The cognitive dissonance required to be a JW will overcome a change to the 1914 date, a gradual fading of the importance of the date or even a simple restating the date as 'around the year 1914'. I feel like we have a new generation of JWs less interested in biblical numerology or at least the borg seem to be de-emphasising its importance.
When the first change to the "generations" understanding came out... for the first time in my life I looked forward to the Sunday Watchtower discussion. In my mind there would be uproar, chairs thrown and a mass walk out. Not so much as a whimper
I have had a couple of discussions with Apathy Trolley Minders and noticed a lack of ability or perhaps willingness to discuss doctrine, rather they would rather 'let the literature do the talking'. Would others agree with this, I would be interested!?
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21
Evolution vs Creation.
by The Rebel inlooking at the board, i see so many long threads on " evoultion vs creation " ect, ect.. therefore if " your" qualifications are only those of " an" uneducated j.w, may i ask one question?.
q) what makes you feel you are now qualified to comment with absolute ,authority on any discussion?.
i ask the above question because for most of us " ex-witnesses " logic is still words written in the pages of an awake" magazine.
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136
Sun,moon, earth and mathematics .
by atomant injust thought id let you all in on some info i found on northeasttruth.com.
that magical moment where the moon blocks out the sun!
but only just enough to perfectly cover the suns disc, whilst still allowing us to see the corona of light and other electromagnetic forces radiating from it.. this only happens because the moon diameter is exactly 1/400th the size of the suns and is positioned at exactly 1/400th of the distance between earth and the sun!so, when we see it from the surface of earth, we are in the only place this can ever be seen, at the only time it could ever happen.
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M*A*S*H
This only happens because the Moon Diameter is exactly 1/400th the size of the Suns and is positioned at exactly 1/400th of the distance between Earth and the Sun!
Err... no. Nothing is exact, I think 'roughly' would fit better. If you disagree, please explain the difference between an Annular and Total eclipse?
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M*A*S*H
Funny, I only grin like that when my pants \ trousers are too tight.