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  11

  Fine encouragement from the faithful slave

  by comment in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as all true christians know, jehovah is a "god of love.

  " his boundless compassion for all mankind is reflected in the spiritual food which his faithful slave provides at the proper time.

  wise are those who take to heart the loving reminders contained in the february 15, 2001 watchtower!.

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  comment

  I hope everyone caught that my original post was ironic in nature.

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  11

  Fine encouragement from the faithful slave

  by comment in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as all true christians know, jehovah is a "god of love.

  " his boundless compassion for all mankind is reflected in the spiritual food which his faithful slave provides at the proper time.

  wise are those who take to heart the loving reminders contained in the february 15, 2001 watchtower!.

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  As all true Christians know, Jehovah is a "God of love." His boundless compassion for all mankind is reflected in the spiritual food which his faithful slave provides at the proper time. Wise are those who take to heart the loving reminders contained in the February 15, 2001 Watchtower!

  Page 17, paragraph 22: "As he did in the days of Zephaniah, Jehovah will soon bring distress upon 'all the inhabitants of the earth,' those who refuse to heed his warning. Because they sin against God, they will walk about as helpless as blind men, unable to find deliverance. In Jehovah's day of judgment , their blood 'will actually be poured out like dust,' as something worthless. Theirs will be a disgraceful end indeed, for God will strew the bodies--even the entrails--of these wicked ones upon the earth, 'like the dung.'"

  Honest-hearted ones, thus, do well in guarding their entrails, maintaining silence before the Sovereign Lord of the Universe. Would we ever wish to be found among those whose intestines rise in noisy revolt against his righteous judgments? Far from it! Let each of us meditate on the love God shows for humanity in his written Word.

  More fine counsel about our attitude toward divine commandments is found on page 19, paragraph 7:

  "The third point made at Zephaniah 2:3 is that if we want to be hidden in the day of Jehovah's anger, we must 'seek meekness.' Each day, we rub shoulders with men, women, and young people who are anything but meek. To them, being mild-tempered is a flaw. Submissiveness is considered a serious weakness. They are demanding, selfish, and opinionated, believing that their personal 'rights' and preferences must be accommodated at all costs. How sad it would be if some of those attitudes were to rub off on us! This is the time to 'seek meekness.' How? By being submissive to God, humbly accepting his discipline and conforming to his will."

  Does God's visible organization ever show a lack of meekness in its pronouncements in the pages of the Watchtower, in other Christian publications, or from the public platform? Hardly! The above paragraph certainly does not evince a "demanding" or "opinionated" spirit, does it? Moreover, since Jehovah's faithful slave is guided by holy spirit, we should accept its admonitions without question, "accommodating its preferences at all cost."

  Many hours, indeed, could be spent in pondering the breadth and depth of Jehovah's loving consideration. But do these paragraphs not demonstrate adequately what kind of God he is?

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  104

  Elders' Gems of Wisdom

  by stephenw20 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my dad asked the co about this one.

  mat 27:52-53. and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, .

  and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

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  We once had a talk about dressing and grooming, in which the elder said: "And what would be the appropriate skirt length for a sister?" He paused rhetorically, and I was fully expecting him to continue with something general about "conscience" and using good judgment and not stumbling others, etc. Instead, he said: "Well, nothing above the knee!" I had to roll my eyes. Did he always check out the sisters to see how long their skirts were?

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  2

  Education=Looser Ignorance=Winner

  by WhyNow2000 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i attended college during late 80's and early 90's when university was a taboo, bad karma, unchristian, bad example...how could you do that.

  i endured myriads of encouragements to lure me away from materialism.

  when i moved to another congregation, i learned to downplay my full fledged student status and in silence i finished my school.. how many of you went to universities when you were an active jw?

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  comment

  I happened to enter college at almost exactly the time in 1992 when the Society published that Watchtower article conditionally OK'ing higher education. As a result, nobody in my congregation really got on my case. They were also able to see that I was regular in field service and at meetings, and was generally setting a good example and receiving "privileges" around the Hall.

  I actually did two arts degrees, undergraduate and graduate with top marks all the way, and served as a ministerial servant for a couple of years toward the end.

  The only type of harassment I got was periodically from people saying, "Well, what's the use of doing that? Is there any point in studying history or literature or art?" I would just point out that those were my aptitudes and that it enhanced my chances of getting some type of job. Sometimes, they'd sort of step back and say, "Oh, well, maybe it would help you write articles for Awake! someday." And in that light, it became acceptable to them. I didn't get too irritated by this debate, as long as it didn't come up too often, because I'd have similar discussions with people at university who were studying for science degrees and thought the humanities were useless frivolities.

  But when I dealt with people from other congregations, I found that they tended to be less understanding and more toward the old "the time is short: shouldn't you be pioneering instead of wasting your time in institutions of higher learning controlled by Satan?" view. In those cases, I just tried to be polite and ignore them, feeling that they weren't reflecting the Society's true, balanced viewpoint as expressed in the latest publications. Some people I knew told me that if others were saying these things, it was just about local, parochial attitudes, not the Society. (But of course, where did they get those attitudes from? The Society's old publications. It wasn't as if other people in my urban area were constantly pooh-poohing the idea of college!)

  Anyway, to sum up, I don't think the Witnesses I knew felt that college impacted negatively on my "spirituality." But again, I went at a time when it was probably more favorably looked on than it even is now (because it was "new light" then; just my guess).

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  4

  Do you want them to leave?

  by comment in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tonight, memorial night, i was thinking about what some people have said about helping their families to see the "truth about the truth.".

  i've felt for some time that it may be preferable for my mother and father to remain witnesses, to be honest.

  my mother grew up with it, while my dad got involved in the late 1980's.

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  comment

  Tonight, Memorial night, I was thinking about what some people have said about helping their families to see the "truth about the truth."

  I've felt for some time that it may be preferable for my mother and father to remain Witnesses, to be honest. My mother grew up with it, while my dad got involved in the late 1980's. Knowing how they are and how much of their lives and social circle revolve around being Witnesses, I fear that they would fall into a massive, terrible depression if they were ever to conclude that it's not "the truth."

  In this scenario, obviously I would just hope that things remain "static" and that their being Witnesses wouldn't have a major negative impact in an unforeseen way (i.e. being in a position where they felt they had to refuse blood transfusions).

  If in fact they do ever leave, I guess I don't want to be the one who lays the material in front of them as a "shock to the system." I would prefer them to find it out themselves. It's not all inherently a big secret. They can (and do) go to the public library; they own all the same Watchtower literature as I do and can read those articles. (In my mother's case, she would have seen them all when they came out! I guess there's just such a torrent of new literature that you rarely have time to go back and check this stuff.)

  My sister is a different story. She is a very intelligent young woman with great potential, and I would hate to see her waste it as some elder's wife or cleaning woman/regular pioneer. But again, I don't feel comfortable being the "instigator of her doubt." I would hope that her own literacy, reasoning abilities and sense of when things are right and when they're not (plus her relatively frequent use of the Internet) will eventually help her to make a decision that won't lock her into the Witnesses. Some people can be quite happy living as a Witness. I wasn't--I don't think it's set up well for a personality such as myself (this is regardless of whether it's 100 percent true or 100 percent false). And I don't think she will be happy in there either, in the long term.

  One way or another, like most other people on this board, I would like the Society to back off in terms of the self-righteousness and harsh disfellowshipping policies, so that (even if they don't accept it) my parents and other Witnesses can be more accepting of people's right to choose to live their lives differently.

  Anyway, off I go to the Memorial. My personal position is that keeping my family intact is more important than making a statement about the Society or their teachings. So, though inactive, I'll do what's necessary to keep the lines of communication open, and it makes them feel better if I go to the Memorial. I understand where other people are coming from on this, though.

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  17

  Special assembly day

  by comment in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i attended a local special assembly day yesterday.

  didn't seem like too much had changed overall.

  however, i've got some questions.. 1) when did the society decide to revert to allowing witnesses to study more than one book with their bible studies?

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  Expatbrit: At the one I was at, there were 4 baptized. However, I was in touch with someone who attended another one, and there were zero baptized there.

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  36

  Meetings

  by OrangeBlossom in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you think the wts will ever reduce the number of meetings per week, maybe drop one night a week?

  just curious!

  it seems that everyone is so whipped from working all day, i really think that's why there is such a drop in meeting attendance.

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  comment

  This is an interesting question. It's tough to say. After all the years of hammering away at Hebrews 10:24,25 and "how vital our meetings are! would we ever want to be missing from Jehovah's spiritual banquet table? far from it!", I think there are a lot of Witnesses who would be disturbed if the Society actually dropped one of the three meetings. And the Society wouldn't want there to be fallout from that.

  The possibilities I could see include:

  1) Further shortening the length of the Public Talk on Sundays. (Maybe half an hour?) I doubt they'd touch the Watchtower Study.

  2) Reducing the length of the Service Meeting, or even somehow merging the TMS and the SM together. (Ultimately, both meetings are supposed to serve the goal of making you more effective in field service anyway, aren't they?)

  However, a more significant reduction would be to scale back to two meetings per week. The hassle in going to meetings is less about the time you spend there, really, than simply having to commit your Tuesday/Thursday evenings and Sunday to the meetings.

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  17

  Special assembly day

  by comment in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i attended a local special assembly day yesterday.

  didn't seem like too much had changed overall.

  however, i've got some questions.. 1) when did the society decide to revert to allowing witnesses to study more than one book with their bible studies?

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  ozziepost: I don't see why they have to go through the whole "It does not seem necessary...some may have felt...however, mature Christians realize..." routine when it's NOT EVEN a matter of changing the interpretation of a particular Biblical doctrine. Offering a particular book or brochure door-to-door is not something that's divinely mandated. They could just say, "In response to the changing conditions we encounter in our field ministry, it now seems wise to prolong studies, giving sheeplike ones an extra opportunity to embrace the prospect of eternal life." I mean, you know they're not going to say "We changed our mind" or "The other way wasn't working as well as we thought it would," but at least "It now seems wise" wouldn't leave the brothers sitting there going to themselves, "Boy, what a dummy I was to be trying to get people through the Knowledge book in six months!"

  Also, your point about all the changes in the United in Worship book is well-taken. As a Witness, you can go to the book study and feel very sharp when the conductor asks a question based on an old understanding and lets everyone know that "we've received new light on this," and you know what it is. But I don't see that an interested one is going to be very impressed or reassured by the fact that a book published in 1983 is now out-of-date and teaching things that are considered false--NOT because there's been some amazing leap forward in Bible research, but just because the same old words are being taken a different way now.

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  17

  Special assembly day

  by comment in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i attended a local special assembly day yesterday.

  didn't seem like too much had changed overall.

  however, i've got some questions.. 1) when did the society decide to revert to allowing witnesses to study more than one book with their bible studies?

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  comment

  I attended a local special assembly day yesterday. Didn't seem like too much had changed overall. However, I've got some questions.

  1) When did the Society decide to revert to allowing Witnesses to study more than one book with their Bible studies? There was a part where they gave examples of how studies had "benefited" from being prolonged beyond the six-month Knowledge book program. "Wisdom directed the study should be carried on etc." In other words--back to the way it used to be.

  As I recall, a few years ago it was set up so that Witnesses weren't even going to be offering anything outside the Knowledge book and selected brochures door-to-door! Has that changed too?

  I suspect this is to make sure that a) field service hours stay up b) Bible study #s stay up c) return visit #s stay up.

  When the six-month Knowledge book program was originally brought in, it was obviously an attempt by the Society to replicate the kind of growth they enjoyed when the Truth book was going over big in the 1960's and 1970's. Now, I'm guessing that they don't feel any such burst in growth is imminent, so they're going back to a "long-term strategy."

  2) This is more general, but can anyone remember a time when the obsessive mantra of "dress, grooming and entertainment" WASN'T a central focus at the circuit assembly/special assembly day? When I was younger, I thought there were more parts on effective field service presentations and stuff like that, instead of "Satan's going to work his way into your life through debasing music!!!!"

  Finally, here are some direct quotes from talks and experiences on the program that I found "interesting":

  "Scriptures that I read casually at one time now take on an entirely new meaning."

  "If Jehovah wants us to prepare for our meetings, it must be for our benefit."

  "We're sure that none here would want to stay in Grade One of Bible understanding."

  "If you walk the line between good and bad, you'll get spiritual hoof-and-mouth disease and the other brothers will cut you off."
  
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  15

  A different thought re "flickering light&q...

  by comment in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does it seem plausible to you that some of the society's apparent flip-flops on doctrine are simply errors by the writing department?.

  for instance, take the question of whether the inhabitants of sodom and gomorrah will be resurrected.

  around 1989, the revised edition of you can live forever in paradise said no, the insight book said something else and the revelation climax book said something else.

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  comment

  Does it seem plausible to you that some of the Society's apparent flip-flops on doctrine are simply errors by the Writing Department?

  For instance, take the question of whether the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected. Around 1989, the revised edition of You Can Live Forever in Paradise said no, the Insight book said something else and the Revelation Climax book said something else. (I don't have the page citations in front of me, but in any case, there were two nos and one yes, I think.)

  I'd be surprised if the Society actually changed its mind that quickly on the same doctrine in that short of a period of time. Maybe one change would be understandable (like the definition of fornication in the January 1, 1972 and December 15, 1972 Watchtower Questions from Readers), but two seems like a long shot.

  Since the Writing Department apparently does a lot of its research just by looking up what past publications have said, might it be that one writer looked up information on Sodom and Gomorrah that wasn't "present truth," thought it sounded right and used it, and then had it rubber-stamped by a member of the Governing Body who was already snowed under by paperwork/late for lunch/sleepy, allowing it to be printed?

  The Society prints SO MUCH literature that it's hard for anyone to keep track of it all. Otherwise, I'm sure more Witnesses would become aware of what's said in the older publications and contradictions therein. But instead, they're struggling merely to keep up with what comes out month to month.

  Thoughts?

  comment