Posts by SimonSays

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

Then you speak of "ancient times" and revisions?? What are you talking about? Name one, just one doctrinal revision in ancient times that was enacted by the nation of Israel. Name just one changed teaching in the OT that the Israelites could have stagnated on? There were none.DD

Now you’re just pandering, but expected. The lack of knowledge, is the day you misunderstood, the biggest revision in Christendom of them all, Jesus Christ. Perhaps you would like to revisit the OT to confirm this, with Jesus making changes, if not eliminating the” Mosaic Law” The difference, they saw it and it was passed by word of mouth and personal actions, back then.

Can we say the same in modern times? No! Humanity has fallen further from the truth and imperfection. However, you are correct, you cannot compare apples and oranges when it comes to bible truth. The same difference JW’s started calling themselves differently. If you speak to a modern day bible student, as I have, they will deny JW’s doctrine, so would it be so different to expect the same? Consider speaking to one someday, their all over the world. They also have District conventions, they also celebrate everything Christendom does. I have one as a friend, just like friends of any other religion. Perhaps if you set your anger aside, you’ll be able to see the flaws in your logic. Maybe someday you’ll learn how off the mark you are, but in the meantime, please continue your hostility, I don’t mind. Like I said, I didn’t come here to debate how we “ALL” lack knowledge when it comes to bible truth, But Gods asks us to try. So why don’t we. Why hasn’t Christendom taken the calling like the WTS? My sole interest was in the Claim to personally now God’s HS and the Direction God takes, in applying it. But as in everything Christendom, it boils down to “Faith”. Remember, Every Religion has chastised the WTS, So, you cannot criminalize the WTS, That logic, is also flawed. Starting with Russell, when they came out, calling him a Charlatan, but then, so do you guys, it’s no different. That’s why I don’t dismiss his core value.

Again, Thank You. DD

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

As far as revision of beliefs is concerned, when you aren't making shit up, you don't have to back-track. Many xian denominations never revise anything. Why? They have never claimed to have all the answers, or be the one true religion, or degraded every other faith like the WTBTS. DD

Well, this would make it, your strong personal opinion; wouldn’t it? But in all “honesty” a false premise since all religions have a strong belief, God’s Holy Spirit flows in them.

Example 1: http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-divinity-of-the-holy-spirit

Just this one. I don’t need emotions to cloud my judgement. The only religions that I know of, that don’t depend on God’s HS are, Scientology, Jainism, which is tied to atheism, and just a few more. Your own reasoning is flawed when you stipulate other religions don’t express their own true divinity. The WTS just makes it available to the public, since they have nothing to hide. Following this topic. I believe that is the point, I’m making about the WTS Publications. Nothing religiously new.

In ancient times, how many revisions did the Israelites have to go through, every time they sinned? Did God allow his chosen people to stagnate on it understanding? (Correction) Once again, let’s not let emotion carrying us off to just drastic opinions. What I was referring to, was substance on the claim of knowing definitively how, you presume to know about God’s HS, and where he directs his HS to whom. That is my simple interest.

If you can’t answer the question, then simply don’t. I’m didn’t come into your debate to argue. You guys enjoy your day. Thank you

I would much prefer that you tell us about your friendship with Ray Franz and why you believe he wanted to go back to the ways of Rutherford. Listener

Perhaps one day you will read about it. As for now, well it seems DD got temperamental, and that was not my objective. Best to You!!!!!!!!

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

Simon says, please prove that the holy spirit is not with the Mormons or Ray Franz.Listener

In my personal opinion, I can’t. Just, like I can’t prove Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith in the desert, back in the 1800 hundreds to give him personal revelation. I also can’t personally prove, that the Pontiff has a personal conversation with God every morning at first light. Even though, Ray was a dear friend, he allowed his emotions, to lose focus on biblical understanding, since it hurt him that his good buddy was fellowshipped. That was Satan doing. Can I prove it? Well unless I write down my memories, I could explain his devotion to his friend. And how he lost sight, in his belief; because of it. I could also explain, how Ray wanted the WTS returned to the days of Rutherford. Aside from that, no! But then again, I don’t pretend to, and that still doesn’t answer my question. Can you personal make a claim you’re sure, Jesus met Smith? Let’s not use conjecture on why the WTS makes comparison on why they believe Christendom is flawed with certain views, just as Russell and Rutherford voiced their concern, why Christendom was erred about “Hellfire” back then. Let’s not use verse psychology, it’s not about me. My Question is to you all. Practice what you preach, so to speak!

If, that be the case, we would have to revisit the entire history of man. Was the first humans righteous or unjust, so forth and so on?

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

I have read all 3 volumes of vindication, and understand it’s reasoning for that era. Of course, I won’t apply it to modern ideology, but the core value still holds. Here, you should ask any modern day bible student why they haven’t revised their understanding. My question has not been answered. Your claim, is that the WTS is devoid of the Holy Spirit, because some self-proclaimed theorist has told you.

I thought you people were strong advocates of “free will”, but that’s another story. So far, I’ve, read what other people have told you, like Rutherford was a drunk, cheat, liar, child molester, etc. He built a mansion Beth Sarim on the WTS donated money, even though it was just a home, without having a clue, that he built his retirement home on the suggestion of his doctor to aid him with his health issues after the release of his imprisonment under the Catholic authority, by personal donations of his friends separate from any WTS contributions that you people have a strong “opinion” on. However, that doesn’t make your opinions “FACT” That makes it a distortion of the truth.

I also understand, the stance of your “opinion” on the flip-flops. This again is just an opinion, it doesn’t make it fact. The WTS has never said, it wouldn’t be revising its understanding as new light surfaced. That’s God’s purpose to guide. To Christendom, this “New Light” is the distortions you people conveniently continue to use.

But, to the WTS, it’s a revelation from God’s, Holy Spirit. Now, I come back to my original question. Prove to me, that’s not the case. You people are so such of yourselves, by giving the public a definite answer in your “opinion”, then prove it. Show me how you can be, this conclusive to know how God is not with the WTS aside from your personal opinions and distorted facts. So far, all I read is conjecture, now that’s presumptuous.

Now, I haven’t insulted anyone, so let’s keep the personal attacks in check, and not turn it to rhetoric.

35

"The Word" includes the book Vindication!

by Atlantis in

can you send me the quote where the watchtower said that the word includes the book vindication?

thanks a bunch!.

.. the quote is in the 1932 watchtower, april 1, pg.101, par.

SimonSays

How do Jehovah's Witnesses know that the book Vindication includes every revelation of truth? JWleaks
How do Jehovah's Witnesses know that the Watchtower magazine is telling the truth about the book Vindication? JWleaks

Here’s my question for JWLEAKS. For years you have definitive knowledge that everything the WTS has ever written is false.

Question 1: Why do you find the need to manipulate and alter the WTS publication, take their information out of context, to present your claim? I would imagine, and intelligent person doesn’t need trickery.

Question 2: In all your infinite wisdom. You refute the claim the WTS doesn’t receive God’s Holy Spirit (Truth). Can you please Provide your “PROOF”, that is the case? Since you claim, how Jehovah’s Witnesses know, well, prove to all of us, that isn’t the case. When did God, inspire you through his Holy Spirit (Truth)?

Since God, not you, holds the Holy Spirit (Truth), I’m just trying to understand your logic. I figured out JokeWithFacts Motive, what's yours.

137

Something interesting!

by John Aquila in

i was invited to a small get-together by a long time friend.

we both served as elders for years.

he is in his late 70s.

SimonSays

John. I believe they might have told you, there part of the OLD GUARD the JW’s REFORMERS. There’s nothing NEW there. Thousands of former and active JW's have the same belief throughout the world, but are subtle with their conviction, even in E.P. TX. You are correct, their views are not apostate, just blasphemers.

http://www.jwreform.org/

82

Intriguing - but Unsubstantiated!

by The Searcher in

according to one source on a western european 'apostate' website, the org's plan is to abandon the name "jehovah's witnesses" in the future, and replace it with "worshippers of jehovah.".

http://www.bruderinfo-aktuell.de/index.php/fixnews/#comment-4313 .

the gist of the account appears to be a repeat of rutherford's re-branding and debunking of old predictions made by the previous shower of fakers.

SimonSays

In the aforementioned context, the term "witness" seems narrower and more specific, while the term "worshipper" covers a broader range and could include one's being a witness. Magnum

You understood the point. The term “Witness” has cognitive thinking versus "Worshipper" in general.

Then there is a difference between cognition and cognitive dissonance, as it is between “Witness” and “Worshipper”wouldn't you agree?

Cognition: is the set of all mental abilities and processes related to knowledge, attention, memory and working memory, judgment and evaluation, reasoning and "computation", problem solving and decision making, comprehension and production of language, etc.

Cognitive dissonance: the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

However, I do thank you in understanding your perception. Enjoy your day!!!!!!!!!!

82

Intriguing - but Unsubstantiated!

by The Searcher in

according to one source on a western european 'apostate' website, the org's plan is to abandon the name "jehovah's witnesses" in the future, and replace it with "worshippers of jehovah.".

http://www.bruderinfo-aktuell.de/index.php/fixnews/#comment-4313 .

the gist of the account appears to be a repeat of rutherford's re-branding and debunking of old predictions made by the previous shower of fakers.

SimonSays

Simon, just from a logical stand point of what “Witness” and Worshipper” mean. Strictly objective without bias. Can you really in vision a name change?

wit·ness ˈwitnəs/

noun

plural noun: witnesses

1.

a person who sees an event, typically a crime or accident, take place. "police are appealing for witnesses to the accident" synonyms: observer, onlooker, eyewitness, spectator, viewer, watcher; More bystander, passerby "witnesses claimed that he started the fight" a person giving sworn testimony to a court of law or the police synonyms: deponent, testifier "she cross-examined the witness" a person who is present at the signing of a document and signs it themselves to confirm this.

2.

evidence; proof. "the memorial service was witness to the wide circle of his interest" used to refer to confirmation or evidence given by signature, under oath, or otherwise. "in witness thereof, the parties sign this document" open profession of one's religious faith through words or actions. "faithful Christian witness"

3.

a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

verb

3rd person present: witnesses

1. see (an event, typically a crime or accident) take place "a bartender who witnessed the murder"

synonyms: see, observe, watch, view, notice, spot; More be present at, attend; literarybehold;

informalget a look at "who witnessed the incident?" have knowledge of (an event or change) from personal observation or experience. "what we are witnessing is the birth of a dangerously liberal orthodoxy" synonyms: undergo, experience, go through, see; More enjoy; suffer "Canada witnessed a cultural explosion" (of a time, place, or other context) be the setting in which (an event or development) takes place. "the 1980s witnessed an unprecedented increase in the scope of the electronic media"

be present as someone signs (a document) or gives (their signature) to a document and sign it oneself to confirm this. "the clerk witnessed her signature"synonyms: countersign, sign, endorse, validate; notarize

"the will is correctly witnessed" look at (used to introduce a fact illustrating a preceding statement).

"the nuclear family is a vulnerable institution—witness the rates of marital breakdown"

2.give or serve as evidence of; testify to. "his writings witness to an inner toughness"

Full Definition of WORSHIP. 1. chiefly British : a person of importance —used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors) 2. : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence.

16

Your Religion Is Dispicable

by freemindfade in

http://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/world/jehovahs-witnesses-in-prison-2/.

the witnesses make reference to article 18 of the international covenant on civil and political rights, in reference to their not being able to practice their religion in certain places.

how despicable when (in my mind) their policy of disfellowshipping, apostasy, etc, causes them coerce members to keep this religion.

SimonSays

No they practice contradiction. It can be demonstrated by considering this standard of religious freedom as stated in Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief". Article 20 says, "No one may be compelled to belong to an association."
Yes it is well supported and without any doubt your beloved cult compel their members to stay within their association by imposing a nearly intolerable cost for resigning their membership. The penalty for leaving is enforced shunning by family and former friends causing many to stay in despite their earnest desire to leave.
That Mr Says is NOT freedom of religion.

Since the WTS is speaking about witnesses actually being imprisoned because of their belief, your arrogant and stupid comment to equate the two as being the same just shows how pathetic you people are. Especially when you’re trying to justify your own stupidity. Mark negative like any child should.

You have a good day too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

16

Your Religion Is Dispicable

by freemindfade in

http://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/world/jehovahs-witnesses-in-prison-2/.

the witnesses make reference to article 18 of the international covenant on civil and political rights, in reference to their not being able to practice their religion in certain places.

how despicable when (in my mind) their policy of disfellowshipping, apostasy, etc, causes them coerce members to keep this religion.

SimonSays

How despicable when (in my mind) their policy of Disfellowshipping, Apostasy, etc, causes them coerce members to keep this religion. In my mind they are violators of this very Article.
Disgusting.freemindfade

Freemindfade: “Your reputation precedes you”. Show me one good logical example where any JW’s have been imprisoned for being an apostate or has been thrown in jail and physically tortured for being disfellowshiped since 1931? You can even go further to 1879 if you want to include the bible student movement.

Perhaps your confusion lies with mistaking JW Christianity with Catholic Christianity. But I’m anguish to SEE your REPORTS or NEWS PAPER CLIPINGS on this new revelation of yours.