Posts by yaddayadda

42

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-27-06 WT Study (FOCUS ORGANIZATION)

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 08-27-06 wt study (july 15, 2006, pages 19-24 )(focus on organization).

review comments will be in red.

wt material from today's wt will be in black.

yaddayadda

"2. Neither Jehovah nor his angels nor the spiritual shepherds tolerate the presence of treacherous, wicked ones in the Christian congregation."

Exactly! Which explains why the GB are wicked slaves. They saw nothing wrong with joining the UN and thus were treacherous to Jehovah. By their fruits you will recognise them.

We have recognised them.

43

Big Announcement - From JW Elder

by Qcmbr in

if you read my other post you'll get the context but since this will be of great potential interest here it is: .

the jws are soon(next few months) going to make a public proclamation against all other churches which he was confident would 'shake things up' and would make a few jws unhappy???.

is this the big announcement for september?

yaddayadda

Could any such forthcoming announcement stem from the fact that there are two new GB members? If there is to be any policy/doctrinal change then they might be the baby of these two new guys, something new they are bringing to the table. In any Corporation new board members/Executives are usually granted at least a few changes here and there to make their presence felt.

This definitely happens when a new Watchtower President is appointed.

13

What is the Kingdom and who is in it?

by yaddayadda in

the jw's have a very narrow definition of what the kingdom is.

they limit its meaning to a heavenly, governmental rulership of 144,000 only.

but the kingdom must be broader than that.

yaddayadda

Hmmm should've known someone would come up with the trite "The Kingdom is within you". Thanks Kenneson and Pete for pointing out the problem with such a translation.

You lost me Heathen. Are you saying Christians will live in a literal Revelatory Jerusalem that comes down to earth?

I think it is simplistic to assert that the essential hope of Christians is to be with Christ and since Christ is in heaven this must mean all Christians will go to heaven. That reasoning is somewhat circular. I think a better definition of the essential trait of a Christian is their total faith and obedience to Christ and their hope to gain salvation and eternal life through that. Being with Christ is not a matter of time/space physical nearness to him. "Following the Lamb no matter where he goes" obviously doesn't mean geographical location.

It is unmistakeble from the book of Daniel that the Kingdom involves literal rulership and will be world-changing. Yet it also seems to be something more abstract that started in the first century. Jesus is clearly pivotal to it, and he will be co-rulers with him, as he promised, but not everyone in a Kingdom can be a ruler.

I think 1 Cor 15: 24-28 are very telling scriptures in helping us understand what 'the kingdom' is and that the JW's are missing a trick with their understanding of the kingdom. Jesus hands 'the kingdom' back to his God (the Father) after 'all government and all authority and all power...all enemies' have been brought to nothing, including death itself, the 'last enemy'. This obviously means that Jesus hands back a perfected human family back to God and so 'the kingdom' clearly includes humans living on earth.

13

What is the Kingdom and who is in it?

by yaddayadda in

the jw's have a very narrow definition of what the kingdom is.

they limit its meaning to a heavenly, governmental rulership of 144,000 only.

but the kingdom must be broader than that.

yaddayadda

The JW's have a very narrow definition of what the kingdom is. They limit its meaning to a heavenly, governmental rulership of 144,000 only. But the kingdom must be broader than that. Jesus specifically says that 'Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets' will be 'in the kingdom of God'(Luke 13:23) and the 'sheep' on Jesus right hand are also to 'inherit the kingdom' (Matt 25:33,34). On this basis alone it seems that the 'great crowd', if we assume they are actually an earthly class of Christians (debateable in itself) actually 'inherit the kingdom'. That means, therefore, that whether a JW has a 'heavenly hope' or an 'earthly hope' they are still going to be in 'God's Kingdom'. Both groups inherit the kingdom. This also means that both groups (the 'little flock' and the so-called 'other sheep') must altogether both be in the new covenant and therefore all JW's should be taking the emblems.

Right?

The Kingdom of God/heavens has to mean some more expansive, wider than just a heavenly governmental rulership of 144,000. I think a better definition (from
Wikipaedia) is:

"The Kingdom of God (Greek ßas??e?a t?? ?e?? basileia tou theou,[1] or the Kingdom of Heaven) is a key concept in Christianity based on a phrase attributed to Jesus of Nazareth in the gospels. The phrase occurs in the New Testament more than 100 times. Basileia tou theou was commonly translated into English as “Kingdom of God” in the New Testament, and refers to the reign or sovereignty of God over all things."

73

Kingdom News 37 sneek preview

by Midget-Sasquatch in

well i setup an account at reexaminer.org eager to make a contribution but find that uploading was disabled (for now anyway).. so here's this year's supposedly hard-hitting expose on "false religion" aka kingdumb news 37. i hope these links work for all of you.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5070/kn37p1wf7.jpg.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4599/kn37p2rn0.jpg.

yaddayadda

This tract is great news bcuz it means the end of the Watchtower Society must be near, judging by their own words. The GB absolutely climbed up onto the Beasts back for 10 years and prostituted themselves to obtain political and financial favours. The Societys leaders who have caused the organisation to become a paedophile paradise will soon be gone. And soon no more family shredding shunning policies to ruin lives and relationships. Condemned by their own words.

2

False "Reasoning from the Scriptures" (Part 2)

by yaddayadda in

the responses suggested below by the wts in the reasoning book are misleading for a number of reasons, discussed in brackets.

(i use firefox and can't seem to bold, underline, etc for ease of reading, sorry.

*** rs 207-8 jehovah's witnesses *** .

yaddayadda

The responses suggested below by the WTS in the Reasoning Book are misleading for a number of reasons, discussed in brackets. (I use Firefox and can't seem to bold, underline, etc for ease of reading, sorry.)

If Someone Says—

‘Why don’t you people get involved in doing things to help make the world (the community) a better place to live?’

You might reply: ‘Conditions in the community are obviously important to you, and they are to me too. May I ask, What problem do you feel should be among the first that gets attention?’ Then perhaps add: ‘Why do you feel that this has become such a major need? . . . Obviously, immediate action on the matter can be beneficial, but I’m sure you’ll agree that we would like to see improvement on a long-term basis. That is the approach that we as Jehovah’s Witnesses take to the matter. (Explain what we do to help people to apply Bible principles in their lives in order to get to the root of the matter on a personal basis; also, what God’s Kingdom will do, and why this will permanently solve the problem for humankind.)’

(Jehovah’s Witnesses do nothing to help poor, sick and otherwise disadvantaged persons in their local communities. The only time they ever do is in times of tragedy/disaster and usually only to their own. The WTS is here implying that ‘improvement on a long-term basis’ only comes through conversion to their religion, because only by being an active, baptized JW can one have any hope for everlasting life. This is what they mean by 'long-term basis'. They feel that just because God’s kingdom is the ultimate permanent solution to mankind’s problems this somehow absolves them from having to practically help disadvantaged people now in their local communities. Did Jesus neglect to help the sick, lame, poor, blind, crippled, etc, just because his help there and then was ultimately only temporary? Can sick, diseased, disabled, elderly, poor, blind, deaf, intellectually handicapped, mentally ill persons get to the ‘root of the matter’ simply by applying Bible principles in their lives??)

Or you could say: ‘(After covering some of the points in the preceding reply . . . ) Some people contribute toward community improvement by providing money; others do it by volunteering their services. Jehovah’s Witnesses do both. Let me explain.’ Then perhaps add: (1) ‘To be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, a person must conscientiously pay his taxes; that provides money for the government to supply needed services.’ (2) ‘We go beyond that, calling at the homes of people, offering to study the Bible with them free of charge. When they become acquainted with what the Bible says, they learn to apply Bible principles and so cope with their problems.’

(The first reply is deliberately disingenuous. The JW is told to say ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses do both’ in relation to ‘providing money’ and ‘volunteering their services’ toward community improvement. This is qualified to mean that simply paying ones taxes is to contribute toward community improvement. However, it goes without saying that Christians should pay their taxes. That's the bare minimum that every citizen, by law, is required to do, Christian or not, willingly or not. This is not at all what a householder is getting at when asking what JW’s do to improve their community. Next ‘volunteering their services’ is qualified to mean simply door-knocking to gain converts. Is this what the average householder would mean when enquiring about ‘volunteering’ one's services for the community? Hardly – the householder obviously wants to know what JW’s do over and above their usual proselytizing and preaching to help others in their community. The householder is enquiring about charitable efforts by JW's, because they know that Jesus did a lot of charity for people irespective of their religion persuasion, and the householder wants to know if JW's are doing the same. The householder already knows that Christians are meant to share their faith with others and this is not what they are enquiring about re 'volunteering their services'. The reason for these twisted, adroit suggestions in the Reasoning Book is course of course because JW’s do nothing charitable for persons (except their own in times of disaster), not even one foodbank.)

Another possibility: ‘I’m glad you brought the matter up. Many people have never inquired to find out what the Witnesses are actually doing about community affairs. Obviously there is more than one way to offer help.’ Then perhaps add: (1) ‘Some do it by establishing institutions—hospitals, homes for the elderly, rehabilitation centers for drug addicts, and so forth. Others may volunteer to go right to the homes of people and offer appropriate help as they are able. That is what Jehovah’s Witnesses do.’ (2) ‘We have observed that there is something that can transform a person’s entire outlook on life, and that is knowledge of what the Bible shows to be the real purpose of life and what the future holds.’

(Look at the crafty response in (1). The JW is encouraged to say they ‘go right to the homes of people and offer appropriate help as they are able’. What kind of help is being discussed by the context? Why, help for the sick (hospitals), the elderly, drug addicts, and ‘so forth’, and ‘community affairs’. This is what the householder is being led to imagine the Witness is talking about. The truth is that jdubs NEVER go ‘right to the homes’ of such suffering persons with the intention of only helping them with their material/health needs, as the kind Samaritan did. They ONLY go to persons homes to place literature, get time for their reports, and to try and make converts (if they can even be bothered to offer a bible study, which most of them rarely do if ever). If they happen to stumble across a sick or elderly person, or a drug addict, etc, then any help or kindness shown to such persons is completely predicated on their response to the message the JW brings them (usually just a perfunctory magazines or tract presentation). )

(It doesn’t get much more twisted than the above response. As mentioned, the Jdubs practically never offer people ‘practical’ help in the way that Jesus did. Jesus materially and physically helped needy, suffering people without ever making such help conditional on their having 'accurate knowledge' or such-like. Jdubs must have a strange definition of ‘practical’ if they think that merely placing literature with people and holding bible studies with them is ‘practical’ help.)

7

False "Reasoning from the Scriptures" (all rights reserved)

by yaddayadda in

the reasoning from the scriptures book lists 7 criteria for determining which religion is right?

putting aside for the moment the assumption in the societys question, that there is only one right religion, which 3 of the societys criteria do you think are the weakest and which 3 are the strongest, and why?

(those who dont believe that the bible is gods word please try and suspend your disbelief when answering) .

yaddayadda

The ‘Reasoning from the Scriptures’ book lists 7 criteria for determining ‘which religion is right’?

Putting aside for the moment the assumption in the Society’s question, that there is only one ‘right’ religion, which 3 of the Society’s criteria do you think are the weakest and which 3 are the strongest, and why?

(Those who don’t believe that the bible is God’s word please try and suspend your disbelief when answering)

*** rs 328-30 Religion ***

How can a person know which religion is right?

(1) On what are its teachings based? Are they from God, or are they largely from men? (2 Tim. 3:16; Mark 7:7) Ask, for example: Where does the Bible teach that God is a Trinity? Where does it say that the human soul is immortal?

(2) Consider whether it is making known the name of God. Jesus said in prayer to God: “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world.” (John 17:6) He declared: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matt. 4:10) Has your religion taught you that ‘it is Jehovah you must worship’? Have you come to know the Person identified by that name—his purposes, his activities, his qualities—so that you feel you can confidently draw close to him?

(3) Is true faith in Jesus Christ being demonstrated? This involves appreciation of the value of the sacrifice of Jesus’ human life and of his position today as heavenly King. (John 3:36; Ps. 2:6-8) Such appreciation is shown by obeying Jesus—sharing personally and zealously in the work that he assigned to his followers. True religion has such faith that is accompanied by works.—Jas. 2:26.

(4) Is it largely ritualistic, a formality, or is it a way of life? God strongly disapproves of religion that is merely a formalism. (Isa. 1:15-17) True religion upholds the Bible’s standard of morality and clean speech instead of weakly going along with popular trends. (1 Cor. 5:9-13; Eph. 5:3-5) Its members reflect the fruits of God’s spirit in their lives. (Gal. 5:22, 23) So, those who adhere to true worship can be identified because they sincerely endeavor to apply Bible standards in their lives not only at their places of meeting but in their family life, at their secular work, in school, and in recreation.

(5) Do its members truly love one another? Jesus said: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35) Such love reaches across racial, social, and national boundaries, drawing people together in genuine brotherhood. So strong is this love that it sets them apart as being truly different. When the nations go to war, who have enough love for their Christian brothers in other lands that they refuse to take up arms and kill them? That is what early Christians did.

(6) Is it truly separate from the world? Jesus said that his true followers would be “no part of the world.” (John 15:19) To worship God in a manner that he approves requires that we keep ourselves “without spot from the world.” (Jas. 1:27) Can that be said of those whose clergy and other members are involved in politics, or whose lives are largely built around materialistic and fleshly desires?—1 John 2:15-17.

(7) Are its members active witnesses concerning God’s Kingdom? Jesus foretold: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matt. 24:14) What religion is really proclaiming God’s Kingdom as the hope of mankind instead of encouraging people to look to human rulership to solve their problems? Has your religion equipped you to share in this activity, and to do it from house to house as Jesus taught his apostles to do?—Matt. 10:7, 11-13; Acts 5:42; 20:20.

17

Wanted - two men of integrity at Bethel

by moshe in

i think a big change is due soon for jehovah's witnesses and it will come about because of changes from the top.

all it will take is two men on the governing body who somehow convince the rest to implement these three changes , for starters i see this:.

#1- they eliminate all rules and guidelines on all medical practices.

yaddayadda

The problem with your theory is that all change comes from the Governing Body, who hold all the power, not just any men at Bethel, and the GB only takes on new members who are already thoroughly indoctrinated and 100% loyal to the Society, having demonstrated for decades that they are totally committed to upholding the status quo. That is the whole point of being a GB member.

The other factor is that the GB members apparently actually sincerely believe that they are the 'sole channel' that all revelation from Jehovah comes through. They sincerely believe they are the faithful and discreet slave class chosen and cleansed in 1918 and appear thoroughly deluded by this fancial notion. So there will never be wholesale changes of the type you surmise about for the simple reason that for them to have gotten so many things wrong for so long it would imply that Jehovah's spirit has not truly been on the Society all along. The suspisions of the rank and file would be aroused.

The most precious thing to the GB is not their relationship with Jehovah, rather it is maintaining their glorified status and position in the eyes of the rank and file as those to whom Jesus has delegated all spiritual feeding.

The whole thing is a self-perpetuating group-think that has become such a powerful machine that any one or two cogs in it who try and turn the opposite way will just get mashed and spat out, ala Ray Franz.

16

607 website - part 1

by Jeffro in

adherents of jw dogma are boastful of a new website (http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607) which they claim has "irrefutable" proof for their 607 doctrine.

it is full of problems, and i will indicate these section by section, as time permits.. why is 607bce an important date to jehovah's witnesses.

the introduction paints jws as the persecuted underdog.

yaddayadda

In any event, whether its 586 or 607 is neither here nor there because the 'tree' that was chopped down is obviously the Babylonish world empire, not Jerusalem. The 'tree' vision and the 'image' vision (head of gold was Nebuchadnezzar) were parallel visions, both starting with the Babylonian world empire. The 'holy watcher' that chopped the tree down was the angel that wrote 'mene mene tekel parsin' on the wall in Belshazzar's royal court in 539 on the very night of Babylon's overthrow by the Medes & Persians. The 7 times therefore started in 539BC. They are not 7 x 360 years; the words 'seven' and 'times' are just figurative and simply mean some divine period of time being perfectly completed. The '7 times' is thus nothing more than a symbol of the limited period of time that God has set for human world rulership over the earth until Christ finally takes power as the one who has the 'legal right'.

156

Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF in

thirdwitness -- an agent of the governing body?

this evening i was talking with an old friend about recent postings on this forum by jw defenders.

we concluded that something unusual is going on.

yaddayadda

Wouldn't surprise me if Al and 3witness are gay lovers. The inside scoop is that Al is a young man who has admitted he was/is a homosexual. He has revealed to some of his supporters on his website that as a result of his gay experimenting he caught a serious disease and in fact may not have much longer to live. This helps explain why he is so easily influenced by domineering male figures and prone to wild swings of mood and opinion. First he was dominated by e-watchman and now he is totally dominated by 3witness - one extreme to the other. It was 3witness who convinced him e-watchman was wrong.

It's pathetic really.