(deleted - double post. Damn 'puter)
yaddayadda
JoinedPosts by yaddayadda
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94
Why 6 Billion People Deserve to Die in Armageddon
by Leolaia injehovah is such a righteous, merciful, loving god -- slow to anger, overflowing with loving kindness and blessing.
yet it somehow bothers many of you that he will shortly execute his judgment on mankind and wipe out 99.9% of the world's population, as if that somehow is supposed to conflict with his loving qualities.
personally, i have no idea why many of you feel this way.
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94
Why 6 Billion People Deserve to Die in Armageddon
by Leolaia injehovah is such a righteous, merciful, loving god -- slow to anger, overflowing with loving kindness and blessing.
yet it somehow bothers many of you that he will shortly execute his judgment on mankind and wipe out 99.9% of the world's population, as if that somehow is supposed to conflict with his loving qualities.
personally, i have no idea why many of you feel this way.
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yaddayadda
At least Charles Rutherford had the sense to realise that the idea of destroying billions of ignorant persons for ALL ETERNITY at Armageddon is completely incompatible with Jehovah being a God of love and justice. Hence Russell came up with the idea that all those killed at Armageddon must of necessity be resurrected during the millennial reign, for the same reasons that all those dead in their graves before Armageddon strikes will be resurrected. They all alike get another chance, because Satan blinded them all. They never had a fair chance.
So why bother killing much of humankind at Armageddon in the first place? Because they must still pay the price of death for their inherited Adamic sin. Only those redeemed by Christ when Armageddon strikes will pass straight through into a new earth without dying first. So said Pastor Russell (I think).
Seems to make more sense than the Society's version of events. At least to me anyway. -
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Glaring contradiction between 1995 new light and Society's authority as FDS
by yaddayadda inin the 15 october 1995 watchtower the society brought out 'new light' that although christ sat down as king in 1914, but he did not sit down on his 'glorious throne' mentioned at matt 25: 31 in that year.
i cant understand why the society bothered to make this change in 1995?
this change was in some ways more damaging to them than the generation change, because the society essentially sawed off the branch they were sitting on by announcing this 1995 new light.
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yaddayadda
{deleted - double post}
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40
Glaring contradiction between 1995 new light and Society's authority as FDS
by yaddayadda inin the 15 october 1995 watchtower the society brought out 'new light' that although christ sat down as king in 1914, but he did not sit down on his 'glorious throne' mentioned at matt 25: 31 in that year.
i cant understand why the society bothered to make this change in 1995?
this change was in some ways more damaging to them than the generation change, because the society essentially sawed off the branch they were sitting on by announcing this 1995 new light.
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yaddayadda
Apocalypse said: "Yet, when you carefully examine the verse, right from the NWT reference edition, there is an asterisk on the word "arriving*" which takes you to the bottom of the page. The reference says "46* Lit., "having come." Gr., el-thon'. In other words, the Literal translation from the Greek is "having come" which puts the fulfilment of verse 46 squarely in the future."
Very interesting! However, ‘having come’ indicates a past tense, so technically it could still apply to a past event, such as 1914. My NIV version says ‘..when he returns’ rather than ‘arrives’. I wonder how this Greek word 'el-thon' is used in other scriptures? What do authorities say about it?
Nevertheless, ‘having come’ in Matt 24:46 must surely mean that Jesus does not appoint the faith and discreet slave(s) until his second COMING, which the WTS says did NOT occur in 1914 (as Apocalypse implied! The Watchtower Society insists that even though Jesus has been ‘present’ since 1914 his 'coming' is still in the future. And that despite all that Jesus still 'arrived' in 1914 and appointed them as his 'faithful and discreet slave' class in 1919! Go figure!!!
Furthermore, if Jesus did not sit on any 'judgment' throne in 1914 then what on earth was he doing when he chose the Watchtower Society ahead of all other Christians? If that isn't judging then what is?
As for Jesus being 'present' since 1914 only through having 'turned his attention' to the earth, where does Matthew 28: 20 fit in? According to that scripture Jesus has 'been with' (ie, had his 'attention' on) his true followers on earth for the last two thousands years!
The Society's inconsistent treatment of 'coming' and 'arriving' in Matthew 24 and 25 is capricious and thoroughly unscholarly. It is just layers upon layers of twisting and contradictions that do all sorts of abuse to Jesus words. So much for letting the bible interpret itself.
It is almost impossible to believe that at least some of the GB did not notice all these contradictions when they considered this 'new light' in 1995. Some of them, perhaps all of them, must surely know that these interpretations are a nonsense. This is what puzzles me about why they bothered to bring in this new light at all. What was the point? All it did was make their 1914-19 teaching look even more ridiculous than it already was. -
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Glaring contradiction between 1995 new light and Society's authority as FDS
by yaddayadda inin the 15 october 1995 watchtower the society brought out 'new light' that although christ sat down as king in 1914, but he did not sit down on his 'glorious throne' mentioned at matt 25: 31 in that year.
i cant understand why the society bothered to make this change in 1995?
this change was in some ways more damaging to them than the generation change, because the society essentially sawed off the branch they were sitting on by announcing this 1995 new light.
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yaddayadda
In the 15 October 1995 Watchtower the Society brought out 'new light' that although Christ sat down as King in 1914, but he did not sit down on his 'glorious throne' mentioned at Matt 25: 31 in that year.
I can’t understand why the Society bothered to make this change in 1995? This change was in some ways more damaging to them than the ‘generation’ change, because the Society essentially sawed off the branch they were sitting on by announcing this 1995 ‘new light’. Let me explain:
What this change meant is that Matthew 24: 30 & 31 (Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory) and Matthew 25: 31-33 (Jesus arrives in glory to sit on his glorious throne) are BOTH to be fulfilled in the future, whereas previously Matt 25: 31-33 was stated to have been in fulfillment from 1914.
This change forces JW’s to accept a GLARING CONTRADICTION about Jesus arrival and coming spoken of in Matthew 24 & 25.
Here is the striking contradiction: The Society relies almost exclusively on Matthew 24: 45-47 for it’s authority. It repeats this passage of scripture frequently to assert its leadership over JW’s. It states that in 1914-19 Jesus appointed the Watchtower Society as his faithful and discreet slave, as spoken of in Matthew 24: 45-47. Now compare Matt 24: 46, 46 with Matthew 25: 31
Matthew 24: 46 + 47 reads: “Happy is that slave if his master on ARRIVING finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.”
NOTICE: These scriptures are taught by the Society to have been fulfilled SINCE 1914-19!
“Matt 25: 31 reads: “When the Son of man ARRIVES in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne.”
NOTICE: From 1995, this scripture is taught by the Society to have a FUTURE FULFILLMENT!
This striking contradiction completely undermines the Society’s proclamations that from 1914-1919 onwards Jesus appointed them exclusively over ‘all his belongings’ in fulfillment of Matt 24: 45-47. The Society's entire authority structure rests almost exclusively on this claim, a claim they repeat frequently.
There are other passages in Matthew 25 that talk about the ‘arrival’ of the groom, etc, which are also still linked to 1914 by the Watchtower Society. Plus, the Society insists that Jesus' ‘presence’ referred to in Matt 24: 39 also started in 1914. Yet both passages where Jesus specifically describes his arrival and coming (Matt 24: 30 & 31 & 25: 31-33) as a glorious king are BOTH said to have FUTURE events!!!
These disturbing contradictions in how the Society treats Jesus’ words about his own arrival and coming has gone almost completely unnoticed by JW’s. In fact, the Society appears to have deliberately announced this 1995 ‘new light’ about the throne Jesus sits on in Matt 25: 31-33 at the same time as the change to the understanding of ‘this generation’ in a deliberately to divert attention away from this damaging contradiction. By bringing out the ‘generation’ change around the same time as this change about Matt 25: 31-33, attention was diverted from the contradictory mess that the Society had created about the timing of Jesus arrival. The gross incompatibility of Jesus arriving in the future to sit on his throne at Matt 25: 31 with his arriving to reward the faithful and discreet slave was buried under all the attention focused on the ‘generation change’.
With this 1995 new light the Society basically sawed off the very branch they were sitting on by claiming that Jesus' arrival in Matt 24: 45-47 to appoint them as the 'faithful and discreet slave' occurred in 1914-19.
Clearly, Jesus has not yet arrived to reward any faithful and discreet slaves. -
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New Light Coming?
by dontomas inhi - i have jw friends (really!
) and have gone to kh for some talks and study every couple of weeks.
things like the new watchtower policy, selling buildings (i am from nyc and know the heights well - that will make a boatload of money), the sex abuse settlements, drop in membership and donations, and some of the changes i have seen in the magazine (the annointed qfr, for example).
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yaddayadda
Dedpoet, that proves my point. Sometimes the Society brings in 'new light' even when there is no 'need' to in terms of numbers, finances, stats. The 'generation' change was a classic example. Statistically and financially they were cruising along very nicely in the mid-1990s, yet they brought in this change anyway. Why? Because doctrinally they were forced too, having painted themselves into a corner through stating in their publication for decades that 'this generation' was a literal, measurable, human generation that started in 1914.
What this means is that the only time the Society announces any 'new light' appears to be when they have tied themselves to some interpretation that father time exposes as erroneous.
The recent 'new light' about the heavenly calling not ceasing in 1935 is another example when they have had to correct a false time-based interpretation. -
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Does Anybody Read The Bible Here Anymore???
by minimus ini don't.
it's not that i won't.
funny thing, is i've collected over 100 different bible versions and translations..
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yaddayadda
Do you mean read for its own sake or read only selected texts referred to in relation to some online discussion? If the former, occassionally, and often for the latter.
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Why 6 Billion People Deserve to Die in Armageddon
by Leolaia injehovah is such a righteous, merciful, loving god -- slow to anger, overflowing with loving kindness and blessing.
yet it somehow bothers many of you that he will shortly execute his judgment on mankind and wipe out 99.9% of the world's population, as if that somehow is supposed to conflict with his loving qualities.
personally, i have no idea why many of you feel this way.
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yaddayadda
Well it jolly well serves them right because they didn't read the small print. We Vogons can't be blamed. We gave copies of the order for Armageddon in triplicate.
Tut tut. -
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New Light Coming?
by dontomas inhi - i have jw friends (really!
) and have gone to kh for some talks and study every couple of weeks.
things like the new watchtower policy, selling buildings (i am from nyc and know the heights well - that will make a boatload of money), the sex abuse settlements, drop in membership and donations, and some of the changes i have seen in the magazine (the annointed qfr, for example).
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yaddayadda
The only flaw in your reasoning Metatron is that the Society have announced new light many times in the past when they didn't really 'need' to. Did they need to make the 1995 new light about this generation and the sheep and the goats separation? They were statistically doing better then than they are now, yet they still brought in new light.
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Did you ever end a relationship because you were a JW?
by TheCoolerKing ina few years before i left the jws for good, i broke off a relationship with my worldly girlfriend.
we were in love, but i ended it because i felt guilty and wanted to be a good dub.
then about three years after we broke up, i left the org.
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yaddayadda
Yes, good thread. I feel your pain dude.
I have pushed quite a few really nice girls away because I was a good little dub and couldn't see a future with them. Now I've just turned 40, am single and am starting to feel panicky about my chances of meeting a marriageable woman in the world who wants children, etc. I think about what life could have been like if I'd just been a normal, happy person without judging everyone I came across because they weren't a dub.
Not only has being a dub retarded me career-wise (not reaching my academic potential when I was younger and not getting into a serious career younger) but it can seriously stunt you relationship-wise also.
I'm also coming out of a few years of mild depression, confusion and feeling lost since breaking free from the dubs and am now ready to form healthy relationships out in the 'world' and hopefully find that special someone sooner rather than later. Life begins at 40! (I hope).
cheers
Yadda