I've just seen this on the active topics and the first post in the thread is part 7! What happened to the earlier parts? Is it possible to find them somewhere? enosant, hooked!
enosant
JoinedPosts by enosant
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The story of my life (part 7- Bethel, the end)
by onacruse inya know, it's odd how the "big" things just sometimes seem to bounce off your forehead, rather like seeing the trees instead of the forest.
well, fwiw, that was the state of mind (if you can call it that) i was in, after less than a year at bethel.
i was reassigned to the night-shift janitorial crew.
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37
What Decisions Did You Make Only Because You Were A Witness?
by minimus ini believe that most jws are deep down inside angry over the fact that they went along with the status quo and the majority just to be accepted.
some witnesses would like to have a tattoo, a mustache, a shaved head, a beard, a new red sportscar, etc.
but they don't because they would be viewed as "immature".
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enosant
Wow Lady Lee! Hats off to you! It was a courageous thing that you did and given your choices at the time totally justified in my book!
Once I'd lost my faith and was in the process of leaving the Borg, I too had a difficult choice to make: stay in a loveless marriage to a witness 11 yrs my senior, suicide or leave. She became so aggresive when I had made it clear that I was leaving the Borg, especially after several meetings with the elders failed to address any of the issues I was having with my faith, the Truth, the organisation and the scriptures. I've never experienced aggression like that from any woman before or since (despite having had several relationships since - well perhaps except one displayed similar, but that's for another day): she became emotionally, verbally and physically aggresive!
I remember standing by the Thames, looking at fast flowing the brown waters below. It was cold and the tears were making he ink run on the note in my hand. But I lacked the courage to go through with it. So I had to take the only other option: leave, even if that meant more pain for both of us. But I don't regret that decision now.
Even though there were no children and no assets to fight over (I took only my clothes & my LPs and the old tattered turntable I bought when still at uni and left her and the furniture in a rent controlled 2 bed maisonette in central london), she was so vindictive that the divorce process took 3 years longer than it should have and cost me £10K in legal fees! It was some consolation that the judge in the final court hearing the judge told her in no uncertain terms that she had wasted solicitors time, wasted the courts time and his time and he didn't want to see this case in from of him ever again!
Some behaviour for an upstanding member of the cong., who'd been a pioneer for a decade at the time! -
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Did you read ..........THAT........book...............
by vitty in.
.............. coc, of course.
when you were still in the org, or when you had already left.. i read it when i was still in and it had a profound effect on me.. lets take a poll .
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enosant
Would you believe that I only heard of the existence of CoC book yesterday while following most links I got by googling 'exJWs'?!!
Haven't ordered it yet (ordered too many [non-religious] books this month already), but even after reading the blurb on amazon I thought: this is a must read!
However I read 'Who wrote the bible' in my declining years inside. It wasn't what caused me to lose my faith though. I had my own doubts that I couldn't shake off due to lack of bible proof to address them; doubts from events in my personal & other JWs lives that made me doubt whether god was interested or able to help at all (what's that saying: god help those who help themselves? so who is actually making it happen?); doubts also from reading old leather bound books that my old cong. had in its library and was amazed by the change of language and doctrine; and finaly doubts from the subtle but important changes in doctrine in my own time as a JW.
So when I remembered the title on literary criticism applied to the scriptures called 'Who wrote ..' I thought it might give me an alternative perspective from outside the Borg*. Boy did I get more than I bargained for!! The book open one's mind to the true nature of the scriptures. Mainly the old testament.
After that I read The Dead Sea Scrolls here
and The Nag Hammadi library here
both gives fantastic insight into the later writings, particularly about the times leading upto and after the first century. Again these will open the readers eyes to the meaning of the new testament and in particular the role of Paul is almost single handedly shaping what was to become christianity, which was surprisingly quite different to what the budding jewish sect around the times of 'jesus' believed.
What the moral and religious views of one man (Abram) was to the old testament & the Hebrews, Paul was to the new testament & christianity.
If you were amazed with the beauty and wisdom of some of the old testament writings, you'll find more in the Nag Hammmadi library and more besides. Haven't finished it yet. Put it down several years ago and have since lent it to a friend. I wonder if I'll see that copy again?
Anyway, 'Who wrote ..' and the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' sealed it for me. Any niggling thoughts that the Borg (or any other group) might have the Truth were vapourised and put to rest in pieces.
Enosant over and out. °} snoring {°
note: * I like the term Borg applied here. I think it is so fitting! I can just picture myself when still among the faithful with this subconscious mantra going on in my head: [at meets, assemblies etc ..] I am Borg. I am part of the collective. We think as one[or should that be: we think the thoughts of one (GB) | we think the thoughts of someone else]. We are Borg. [And in the field] You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Resist and you will be destroyed! [why was Seven of Nine not in my cong?! ;-(]
** Hang on a minute! May be person who came up with the idea of the Borg did base it on the organisation model or similar and setting it up as a mirror to their nature?
***Suggested analogies for Borg implants and nano-probes anyone? -
37
What Decisions Did You Make Only Because You Were A Witness?
by minimus ini believe that most jws are deep down inside angry over the fact that they went along with the status quo and the majority just to be accepted.
some witnesses would like to have a tattoo, a mustache, a shaved head, a beard, a new red sportscar, etc.
but they don't because they would be viewed as "immature".
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enosant
ALamb, oh sweet lamb!
A pain gripped my heart when I read your post. What you sacrificed to be a pioneer was bad enough and marrying someone you didn't love (ditto), but your last comment ... Out of all the terrible things that could happen within a congregation, this must be the last that I would have expected. I mean seriously? That's until yesterday that is, when I saw the article on the BBC Panorama program Suffer the Little Children (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/855727.stm) and simply couldn't believe it!
I know of someone in my former cong. that suffered in that way, but I only heard rumours and thought that it must have been outside the 'truth'. I get the feelig I might have been wrong about that.
The things these elders get away with and the gov. body's attitude towards this serious issue. Children are sacred - religion or no. How can supposedly god fearing people do such things and then cover it up! Have they no conscience? Did they think that god would simply brush it aside on account of repentance, even if repentance there was?
I have memories of being sexually assualted when I was little myself and now I have a little daughter and the thought that something of that nature happening to her just make my blood boil! Her mum keeps telling me not to be so paranoid. Yeah, right!
For what its worth, little lamb, I am sorry. Men are pigs. Even if sometimes we manage to hide the snorts and disguise the smell ...
enosant -
37
What Decisions Did You Make Only Because You Were A Witness?
by minimus ini believe that most jws are deep down inside angry over the fact that they went along with the status quo and the majority just to be accepted.
some witnesses would like to have a tattoo, a mustache, a shaved head, a beard, a new red sportscar, etc.
but they don't because they would be viewed as "immature".
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enosant
This is indeed a BIG question!! The regrets and missed opportunities and misspent youth are legion!
hilbilly - I feel for you man! To be top class and have your talents go unrealised. Maybe you didn't get to join the navy, but I'm sure you can find some comfort in the fact that few good men get the chance to even be *considered* for it, let alone offered a place, all expenses paid! Ah, the uniforms!
dezpbem - said
The worst was not being allowed to have friends. I felt this overwhelming feeling of loneliness. I still feel that loneliness to this day.
Same here man, having lost all the JW friends, you find that you can't bring yourself to let others get too close, even pushing them away (old habbit dying hard). I find I'm still finding myself doing that now. Do you find yourself dong that too? Collecting a large number of acquiantances, that you keep a 'safe' distance away, always finding some excuse not to spend time with them?
I got to watch other people have sex (ehr...not really "watch", hehe) and date while I had to ignore potential girlfriends. I didn't go to any proms or graduation trips in my life, urghhh!Again, ditto! Nevermind potential girlfriends, what about dead cert sex? Imagine gettting through college and 4 years at uni and still end up a virgin at 24 (joung'un out there beware)! Felt like Clark in Smallville, except ... powerless and the abstinence had no redeeming virtue!
Ok, so here's my shortlist:
- Turning down football (soccer - I was quite good at it) scouts at 14, because I was a few months away to baptism and all the extra-curricular activities and worldly association is clearly arked undesirabled
- Not pursuing the logical conclusion of my doubts from before baptism, even after having had inconclusive discussions with the district overseer on the matter. These same doubts led me to leave 14yrs later, D'oh!
- No sex or fooling around through college or uni. Thought that needed repeating 'cos for a full blooded male that kinda sucks (pardon the expression)
- Turning down a PhD and grant in the leading engineering department of a top UK university (Imperial College) simply because who wants a career in a world which in the mts literature was described as a building marked for demolition, and so why would anyone want to work there?
- Going along with a marriage arrangement (despite voicing my reservations) with someone I had nothing in common and 'friends' in the cong put together in 2 weeks (yep two mfk'ing weeks from the first kiss, can you believe it? Hardly time to get my bearings!! - Aww bless! They thought they were doing us a favour, because at the preceding dist. conv. [91] it was announced those surviving single at armag were gonna live like angels and not marry, so we would miss out on all the sex!!) So they were simply being helpful and silly dingo here wasn't forceful enough in saying no and have it heard!
- oh, brain is hurting, can't think of any more!
enosant -
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UK & IRELAND MAP
by ballistic ini had an idea that i could build a uk map of everyones location which would show you instantly who is in your area from jwd.. (it might be an idea to do a seperate us one aswell but i'll wait and see if this one takes off first, or if anyone from the us wants to volunteer to do that one).
(and australia but you are all in the same backyard anyway - literally!!!).
anyway, all you have to do is post or email me your username and town and i will draw you on the map above which will change gradually to include everyone!.
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enosant
Hi, please add me to the map.
BTW, where can I find the most up to date version of the map?
enosant -
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WELCOME, enosant! And HELLO to all lurkers!
by OldSoul inwell, enosant, you made it here.
there are many nominal witnesses here, many who have left, many who are leaving and many who've been thrown out.
admittedly, there is some teeth gnashing going on here, but given that our families have been stripped from us by policies of a multi-billion dollar corporation that operates under the guise of religion i don't think that is an unreasonable reaction.. kick back and enjoy the fresh air.
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enosant
Thanks OldSoul for alerting me to my member space. I'm still finding my way around the site. I kept having to search for the thread where my initial post was to find what's going on!
Also does anyone know if there's a way to search the various threads? The search link is not yet implemented.
With all this talk about Shiraz I'm gonna have to get myself a decent bottle! I've been partial to Chianti (Sangiovese I think) and Bordeaux Cabernet Sauvigon up to now ... -
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14 years later- still a wreck! What's up with me!
by doffy inthe listener said on an earlier postyou've been out for awhile, perhaps your insight will help some of us who are still in the exiting process.
which was a lovely thing to say, and made me feel 'valued' (thanks listener!).
but, you know, 14 years on, and there are times, when i feel like i just left.. i took the children to the pictures yesterday (to see 'wallace & grommit').
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enosant
Thank you anglise. I sure hope so!
As a newbie, I might need a few terms clarified:
What's the D for in JWD?
Presumably:
DF == Disfellowshipped
DA == Disassiociated ( as is my case* )
does it mean then the D above can stand for either? as in ex JW, xJW?
Personally, I prefer the xJW label - less judgemental I think.
Already, being part of this forum is bearing fruits - am feeling much better; am keeping the rubber band taught until I can get rid of it or the m as the case may be ...
Un peut de bien ne peut faire de mal - es b.67 °}{° -
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14 years later- still a wreck! What's up with me!
by doffy inthe listener said on an earlier postyou've been out for awhile, perhaps your insight will help some of us who are still in the exiting process.
which was a lovely thing to say, and made me feel 'valued' (thanks listener!).
but, you know, 14 years on, and there are times, when i feel like i just left.. i took the children to the pictures yesterday (to see 'wallace & grommit').
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enosant
Guys - sorry for being tad melodramatic in my post. You probably realised that this was the first time ever that I opened up in this way to anyone who I felt might understand. Thank you all who responded with your warm welcome and kind words.
They were heartfelt, especially by me!
LisaBobeesa - I haven't been hugged like this by an adult ... since ... well I jolly well I can't remember! My little girl gives the best hugs - she is the only true love I have in my life right now.
Lady Lee - Judging by the mature nature of most of the responses here, I'll have to agree that this is the right place!
Gladdy - your words 'you are not alone ' though seemingly obvious, is somehow some of the things I've been waiting so long to hear! Having to realise that I am part of a group of shared experiences and mine though painfully tragic at times, also implies that what I have not been singled out in any way for this treatment, my suffuring - dare I say: trials and tribulations - involved the suffuring of others and is in many ways connected to yours. You are coping. I am not special. I can cope too.
And your suggestion of reversing the situation when meeting old 'friends' & family members by being positive and bubbling with happiness is something I'll definitely try! They certainly won't be expecting that! And I can already see in my minds eye that I will come away with a smile, inside and out!
Hamsterbait! The rubberband! Brilliant! I haven't tried it yet, but I already have a sense of yet unfocused contexts feelings of where the deep seated feeling of unease, of unworthyness, sadness and self deprecation may come from. My little finger is already indicating that they may not all be connected to my journey in the 'Truth'! A great thank you for that!
OldSoul - says 'Wondering what is wrong with you might keep you from realizing you aren't the one who's the most screwed up'. Yes The focus is all misplaced! We were once victims, we don't have to be anymore. The focus should be on healing ourselves, not nurturing the pain, something that like me, a lot of us may have been only too good at! Its time to take charge and let go.
Poppers - Its so true that we may be giving away our power, by reverting to conditional responses like Pavlov's dog!
Realising this and being able to take a step back within ourselves and see the situation unfolding would also make us realise that we can channel it differently and stop it.
I really think that this is the place, and this is day when I embark on a path leading away from an all too familiar pain.
Let the healing begin!
Peace be with you all! °} {°
Un peu de bien be peut faise de mal - es b.67 -
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14 years later- still a wreck! What's up with me!
by doffy inthe listener said on an earlier postyou've been out for awhile, perhaps your insight will help some of us who are still in the exiting process.
which was a lovely thing to say, and made me feel 'valued' (thanks listener!).
but, you know, 14 years on, and there are times, when i feel like i just left.. i took the children to the pictures yesterday (to see 'wallace & grommit').
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enosant
I can relate only too well to the sentiments expressed in this thread. Being in the presence of family members who are still JWs or former JW friends, the galcial shoulders you feel, the look that says you are so evil and the world would be better off if you just didn't exist, that is when they are not ignoring you completely as if you really didn't exist! It must be ingrained in us the need for approval & acceptance. The overwhelming feeling of not fitting in anywhere - you are not inside and not really outside in the 'world' either! I cannot bring myself to be like people of the 'world' and they sense this, they sense that I may be judging them (even though I didn't say anything) but inside I am judging myself even more harshly! As the years pass, I find the feeling don't dissipate; often they get stronger & overwhelmingly so. Somehow it really feels like part of me simply hasn't left - is still being guided, controlled and self-disciplined day-in day-out and adversely judging my actions, my thoughts. This make it really difficult to feel free from the former shackles & be 'normal'. I get the feeling that I'd been living in a dark cave for the best part of my life, a part I won't ever get back ... What gets me the most is the overwhelming feeling of guilt! So easily triggered ... And I don't have to be doing anything in particular, causing me to distance myself even from the people I love. Feeling undeserved, even when good things happen. And when lonely - something that happens quite a lot as a result - boy do I feel alone! A river of tears flows inside, sometimes welling up, but even when it doesn't I am only too conscious of it being there, drowning me slowly ... Not really right for a grown man! I was a JW for 14yrs, since the emotionally charged age of 14. I was commited entirely mind, body & soul ... Well regarded in my congregation, a ministerial servant. It's been 9yrs since I left - when my faith was shattered, dissillusioned, suicidal (a state I have been in several times since), depressed. I still feel lost, drifting on a makeshift raft in a purturbed sea .. I found it impossible to connect, I mean really connect to anyone. I suppose only a former witness, someone who has gone through something similar can understand. I fell all wrong. Maybe that's what prompted me today to look on the web and found this site. I hope I can connect here. Bring my experience to help someone and maybe be helped myself. I this stikes a chord with anyone, please respond ... You may be my only hope ...