Posts by Borgia

7

Salvation, Luther, and the Watchtower

by AliveinChrist in

jw
friends

no man with simply a bible and faith in christ would be allowed salvation apart from the catholic organization.

positions that the wt religion teaches on the idea concerning the issue the witnesses having to identify themselves as being a member of the watchtower organization for their salvation one the one hand, it is taught that were one to impute salvation toward `an organization' one would be engaging in a `modern version of idolatry.

note the following quote from the wt which echoes the catholic creed.

Borgia

Thanks, AliveinChrist for your paper. It describes very well the situation of the WT at present. You´ll not only find it in the papertrail. tou´ll find the same similarities in the JC´s. same reasoning, same arguments, same modus operandi.

In my cong there happen to be older JW who were coonverted from catholicism. Once in a while they start telling horrible stories about the RC when it suits their purpose. At those moments I usually start L.O.A. because they do not see the irony. Converted from Catholicism into Catholicism. How´s that for an improvement.

Glad you came to see it.

cheers

Borgia

40

Prediction of large drop in JW numbers in 2014

by VM44 in

i am going to make the prediction, here and now in mid 2006, that there will be a significant drop in the number of jehovah's witnesses in the year 2014, the one hundredth anniversary of 1914.. the only way this drop in numbers might be avoided is if the watchtower society can think up some way to stir up the rank and file and get them motivated to do more, like they did with the 1975 fiasco.. .

i doubt very much that the watchtower magazine is going to proclaim loudly in the year 2014 anything about the "generation of 1914" not passing away.. --vm44

Borgia

Hi, I put the service figures of the last 10 years into a spreadsheet and activated the extrapolation function. (Excel)

And what do you know? They grow till 2014 to about 8 - 8,5 million. 2014 shhowed to be the first year of a wild decrease in publishers, a steady decrease. Don´t you just love statistics? Cheers Borgia

9

DC Drama: Mosaic Law == Being a Witness

by under_believer in

jw
friends

okay, so i want to talk this one over with my wife, but i need to kick the idea around here a little bit first.

i apologize if this has already been covered.

at the district convention this year, they did a bit about how jeroboam didn't want the 10-tribe kingdom going down to jerusalem, so he tried to set up calf worship and his own set of festivals, etc.

Borgia

Under_Believer,

>p>No, you´re not the only one noticing that comparisson. But ehhhh, the comparisson is more ironic than that.... Jerobeam was a king. He appointed priests. The priests promoted calf worship saying that the calf represented, did I say represented?, Jehovah. Booze JFR, nervous bizzy bee Nathan and oracle Freddie were kings and appointed their priests. These chaps in turn kept on pointing to the GB /Org as representing the FDS & Jehovah, being Gods sole channel of communication.............You don´t want me to go on, do ye? Cheers Borgia

28

Local need-last night

by sspo in

jw
friends

the po got up there for the local need,

zecharia says that jehovah is going to destroy all the nations of the earth,( scripture was talking about jerusalem) are you going to be one of those destroyed?

if you are missing meetings, you are not being influenced by god's spirit, there is another spirit that is influincing you, that of satan

Borgia

SSPO, you mean the ones who need it...The ones like me? I´m sure you were pulling our leg, no? Me, I have not seen a TMS or SM in years. Although I am very regular in my meeting attendance. I only go on sundays.:-). I consider the TMS and SM of nowadays the most annoying and boring meetings ever invented. Building engineering meetings were more interesting than these. I mean, if you want to get used to overcoming your fear of talking in public, go ahead, but all they serve is nuked pre-cooked and pre-sliced open your mouth and consume it babi pangang. Chewing is allowed but not mandatory. Bookstudy: What the bible really teach.....the title alone makes my blood run faster......Revelation with a climax...eh no, I had mine in the late 80 and early 90 and since all of it is being surpassed by reality......so, I skipped that one too because I like my evenings sound and interesting.

And by going on Sundays makes the misses very happy and I get the chance to implement some ideas the Borgia way. Makes life more fun. All in all, I really can say that by applying Hebr 10:25 in my life, I have benefitted greatly from it. Cheers Borgia

35

Are We Missing the Bigger Picture???

by drew sagan in

jw
friends

we all pretty much have come to the same conclusion here that the watchtower is a corrupt system that controlls it's followers.

through websites, tv, and books many have put in alot of time exposing the teachings for what they really are.

but is there something going on in the organization right now that is even bigger than the false doctrines, something that shows they are in the planning stage of something that's even more corrupt than what is going on now?

Borgia

The revelation book has already been mentioned. To me the real last prophetic interpretation book was the security under the prince of peace book or however it is called in English.

I really studied every syllable of that book (late 80 book). Why? because it ha to do with the FDS being choosen in 1918 (without them knowing it themselves as I came to discover). I discussed snippets of it with others but to my dismay I found 2 responses:

1. Lack of understanding

2. Those who did understand did not care

Back then I could not get my head around the fact why they did not pay attention. It was the foundation, the corner stone of "our" organised religion.

Now the situation is not so different from back then. The same information but a few unbiased facts added. The same response....almost.

Now the suspision of being an apostate was added.

Drew, I see were you are coming from and I could not agree more. Reaping what has been sowed. When discussing prophesy or even whatever item with elders, and I mean not only those in my own cong, most of the time I only get watered down answers, wait on more revelation, be patient, we don´t have an answer or look it up in the literature attitude. Some, and I repeat, SOME, and search them with a flashlight, do have the ability, honesty and strength to think for themselves. As for the rest they seem to be a passive, "drowning in the GB indulgent" group of "zombies".

I know, I´m referring to my family in such words, but let´s face it. Scared to the bone to think outside the box. (OMG, you may be an apostate. ) Scripture here and a Scripture there and the light gets brighter. Brighter?

Well these items may be expected to be discussed again, again and again.....and again:

do more in the fieldservice

clean your house, your rather well stocked 4 doored car prevably a 9 seater van

appreciate the fieldservice more

obey those taking the lead

blood

fieldservice

porno

fieldservice

GB

porno

fieldservice

GB

fieldservice

blood

fieldservice

love your wife

obey those taking the lead

fulfill your ministry by doing more in the fieldservice

ehhhhhh, and now something completely different..........did I mention fieldservice, already? Cheers Borgia

26

Terrible "Local Needs" part--TRUST THE "SLAVE CLASS!"

by under_believer in

jw
friends

just curious--do all gb members profess to be "anointed?

" are they all claim to be members of the "faithful and discreet slave class?

last night at my kh we had a "local needs" part.

Borgia

Greendawn,

Interesting comment. I could not help think of the drama on the convention. This was about priest being appointed by men in power. Rather ironic, don´t you think, considering the history of the Borg

Cheers

Borgia

36

X - JW or Apostate?

by In Between in

jw
friends

i thought this might be interesting.

if it's been talked about before, i apologize in advance.

what differences do you think exist between the two?

Borgia

As long as I would apply onto myself WT definition, I would stay in the double think modus. Therefore I quited with that 1,5 years ago. and for the rest: I could not care less whether or not I would be called apostate or not. It´s like calling Robinson Crusoe sailing off from his Island a restister to godly providence, a rebelious person who tried to escape his godly ordained fate. I´m sure he wouldn´t give a damn, as long as he was off that Island. As for X-jw. does it matter? Cano is an ex Bethelite. So? He has been DF-ed. Jolly good show WT. politically, you could not do anything other than to DF the bastard. He´s an X-jw. So? And that same thing counts for many other people with many other reason for having left. The WT world is a very little world. With people entertaining narrow minded views. Why should I allow them to deny me a broader view. Cheers Borgia

40

Disassociate the Inactive? Maybe Not.

by metatron in

jw
friends

imagine what would happen in countless congregations across the globe if the society formally announced that "so and so is no longer one of.

jehovah's witnesses" simply because they became inactive.. not only would many congregations suffer under the burden of having their younger witness demographic get "expelled" , often one by .

one, in a steady drip as they fornicate/smoke/do weed/whatever, man - but you now add a regular stream of .

Borgia

As a JW I think we are used to be abused. At least with words. The guilt trip is one of those abusive tactics. Saturday on the convention it was a big time guilt trip. Leaving the situation as is, a huge threat of rotting from within beyond control through the drippeling effect may have to be faced by the WT leadership. There exist a scenario, and possibly more than one, that may be of help to remedy this: One single strong overpowering blow to slackers and other subversive elements. Two results may be yielded: 1)drop in “publishers” who are not really publisher but window dressers. Step one, next CO visit, identify all slacking and subversive elements. Encourage to make a mend. Stept two: Next CO visit discuss new regultions on disfellowshipping based on 1 kor 5, being that on disfellowshipping offences, disfellowshipping must take place (scripture says remove, therefore calling for immediate descisive action, instead of you may remove) whether or not the guilty party repents. After being reinstated they will run probably harder and stick more closely to the party line. Based on 1 John 2:19 anyone slacking in visiting meetings more than X ties a months and fieldservice more than X months in a row: DF/A, if no improvement after applicable strong scriptural councel and help to improve has been given and no improvement to average publisher hours can be noted, provided the person is not of old age (15 minute preacher) and in to sick a condition to participate in the fieldservice (mind you: telephone preaching belongs to the opportunities). It may be that the priveledge of participation at the TMS and WTS may be revoked as a measure of “help” to let the “evildoer “ get a sense of urgency to repent and do better. Special project for MS and Elders and pioneers may apply. Time to market: 6 to 8 months. 2.The publishers that remain will start to operate in the real “last days”- mode by doing there “outmost” with a “sense of urgency” never seen before. Due to the operations described above under point 1, a rally of protest emerges in news media, court rulings, etc, etc. a sort of the 1917 Rutherford initiated attack revisited. “Clearly, brothers, we do live in the last days. Look at the persecution. Jezus foretold this would happen. Now turn to vers bla bla en read how the disciples of the first century felt when confronted with persecution. Are we not happy that we are being called names for the sake of the Good News?Are we not happy to suffer for the name of our Great God?” Standing ovation. Brothers, you are to be commended for persevering under worsening conditions. Look, fieldservice hours are up. Attendence is up. As the end draws near, Jehovah will keep on directing the work. End of assembly singing song number 212 (or if you still have the old one: 110). Every dub goes home with the feeling of having had the best convention ever, of the end being SOOOOOO close that they can almost taste it. With many thanks to a brillant observer called Macchiavelli who wrote: “Arte della guerra” and “Il Principe”. Most fitting indeed. O, and by the way, In every time and age there have been people who have been lied to and who have been deceived. No matter how idiotic, fantastic a story told might sound. Will there always be dubbs? I guess there will be, whether they are called dubbs or go by any other name. A few quotes from Napoleon by means of illustration: - The people excited by ambitious demagogues, sooner or later return into the hands of the Aristocracy. - A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights. - Men are moved by only two levers: fear and self interest. - The herd seek out the great, not for their sake, but for their influence; and the great welcome them out of vanity or need. - In a conquered country benevolence is not humanitarianism. It is a general political axiom that a conqueror must not inspire a good opinion of his benevolence until he has demonstrated that he can be severe with malefactors. - Good and decent people must be protected and persuaded by gentle means, but the rabble must be led by terror. I am sure these axioms can be turned into biblical foundations............ to start with: Proverbs 29:18 - Where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained. Cheers Borgia

40

Disassociate the Inactive? Maybe Not.

by metatron in

jw
friends

imagine what would happen in countless congregations across the globe if the society formally announced that "so and so is no longer one of.

jehovah's witnesses" simply because they became inactive.. not only would many congregations suffer under the burden of having their younger witness demographic get "expelled" , often one by .

one, in a steady drip as they fornicate/smoke/do weed/whatever, man - but you now add a regular stream of .

Borgia

Scully, And so was mine. But the last circuit assembly proved to be an eye opener in the sense that they could not care less. Yes is yes and the speaker insisted that the questions as of 1985 were anwered by all of us with yes. Therefore, stick to you word. Look at the transscript Lenny supplied. They are not concerned to what exactly you said yes. Do you want to cooperate or to disassociate. Unbelievable. Although I have to admit that these "elders" did exactly as was taught on this district convention: Ask questions (simple, straighforward and easy to answer) and stick to a single subject (simple) It looks like if a person is in NOW, only the present rules apply. It would mean that a contract I signed is no longer valid because other employees have other stipulations. Understanding justice is not a business the WT is very good at, it seems. But as for inactive persons: since the new org book (2005) the stage has been set to disassociate any person who does not exactly walk in line. It´s only a matter of pulling the levers. What a mess it will become.:-) Cheers Borgia

40

Disassociate the Inactive? Maybe Not.

by metatron in

jw
friends

imagine what would happen in countless congregations across the globe if the society formally announced that "so and so is no longer one of.

jehovah's witnesses" simply because they became inactive.. not only would many congregations suffer under the burden of having their younger witness demographic get "expelled" , often one by .

one, in a steady drip as they fornicate/smoke/do weed/whatever, man - but you now add a regular stream of .

Borgia

Hi, my first post ......It's little bit unhabitual but eh.....I hope you´ll enjoy mine as I ave enjyed yours. I´m still in although hanging in by a thread. eh......I was listening to the babtismal vows last Saturday as a visitor, not as a partaker, if you catch my drift,: (Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?) and I had to think about the new anouncements as of march 2005. I was wondering whether or not it is suitable to call somebody no longer a JW when being disassociated. The babtismal question relates a JW to an org, the SDO (Spirit Directed Org). Before babtism a person already has become a JW (by means of dedication) but not officially associated with the SDO. In the JW theology, dedication is something between you and God and being disassociated does not alter one single syblable to ones dedication. So, is the new announcement not merely to be considered as a defamation of caracter instead of disassociation? Cheers Borgia PS my name has nothing to do with borg in case you were wondering.