Posts by AuldSoul

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

But at SOME point in the line of decent the genetic drift would mean a g x the power of n grand sire would be infertile when crossed with it's descendents.

For this context the discussion about the horse and ass come back into the mix. Asses have not become bred so far distant that they cannot produce offspring when bred with a horse, right? Both horses and asses have been bred to mules and produced offspring genetically trending toward whichever gentic traits were reinforced in the pairing, right?

At WHAT point, empirically speaking, will a horse and an ass be no longer able to produce a foal, and why do you so say?

What EMPIRICAL proof do you have that an ass bred to hyracotherium or to megahippus would be an infertile breeding?

I suspect your claim has no empirical proof at all. I suspect your claim is pseudoscience; a gloss that is the ultimate underlying sophistry in the macro evolution argument. I leave open the possibility that my suspicion is incorrect, but I strongly suspect it is not incorrect.

—AuldSoul

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

BurnTheShips: If speciation could be replicated empirically and repeatably, I think it would lay the matter to rest for a great many doubters. In other words, divide species A into two populations B and C. Expose population B to environment X, and C to environment Y. After Z generations, test if they are still able to produce viable offspring. If not, we have different species and this was "macroevolution".

It seems you and I are comfortable with the exact same goalpost, although I must hasten to qualify that any effective empirical proof would have to rule out such silly social preferences as "length and cadence of song and coloration of plumage" as valid causes for speciation. One would think that such a task would be easily accomplished given how often mutations occur and how artificial environments can be manipulated to reinforce specific mutative traits.

Do you mean this hasn't already been done? Why ever not?

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

Your 'Respecfully' is nothing more than a conceit.

Au contraire.

You still haven't conceded using an example of a 'separate gene pools breeding event' to compare to a 'same gene pool breeding event' was a bad example

Why would I do so when you use similar examples to supposedly bolster your own argument? That is, after all, what ring species are. You use separate gene pool breeding to contrast to same gene pool breeding. I use it to compare. It wasn't a "bad example" just because you don't like it.

Of course, your best case examples of same gene pool breeding wasn't really separate at all, except socially.

. . . will not answer the questions you have been asked that you avoid that show how inadequate your own hypotheses are.

You mean your insistence on "goal posts"? I don't need them, thanks anyway. If I set them I may make conclusions based on seemingly solid evidence that is actually riddled with gaping holes of illogic. And yes, by the by, Neanderthal were humans.

But at SOME point in the line of decent the genetic drift would mean a g x the power of n grand sire would be infertile when crossed with it's descendents.

What EMPIRICAL proof do you have of the truth of this claim? I'll happily set THAT as a goal post. Put up your best possible proof that this MUST happen. Talk about 'slick gamesmanship'!

—AuldSoul

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

Galileo,

I haven't studied out ERVs. You made me aware of their potential in marking common ancestry. I was mostly just kidding in that last post regarding the subject.

However, my gut response would be to challenge how we know that similarity in genetic makup did not make both species susceptible to the very same ERV. This may have already been answered, but I haven't studied this line of evidence out yet. There is plenty of evidence for disease spreading between ape or monkey and human populations.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

Well, you must think this-

or if you prefer the fossil, this-

is still one of these-

Why, exactly, must I think that? I don't recall saying that I thought that. I don't recall conceding that "pakitecus" (sic) is a whale at all, or even that it is an ancestor of a whale.

When did I concede that, exactly? Do you have a fossil chain similar to the one you can produce for horses that definitely began and remained horses? Just curious whether you are trying to assert that because you can prove there used to be a different variety of horses that means I should accept without challenge that pakicetus became a whale.

—AuldSoul

28

Awakend at Gilead inspires me to speak frankly with my wife........

by oompa in

jw
friends

had a nice long talk with him yesterday....he sure seems to be on the fast track all of a sudden , but actually has shared doubts with his wife for years.

but once he makes up his mind....man he really moves.

so some of my elders know i think it bullshit, but i did not just come right out and say it.

AuldSoul

Awakened: Even if she talks to the elders, they are NOT authorized to encourage separation or even say that about a mate. I know as an ex-elder. That's a big no-no...

While you are technically correct, I can use my own example to demonstrate that oompa might not be off base. My father is the Presiding Overseer of the congregation I grew up in, but he and my mother actively and repeatedly encouraged my wife to separate from me on the grounds of "Spiritual Endangerment". She would come home bawling her eyes out, but wouldn't explain why.

When I finally found out what was going on, I called my dad and informed him that if he or any of the elders or my mother or any other JW ever again breathed a suggestion like that to my wife I would be happy to sue the perpetrators on the tort of Alienation of Affection, but that was surely a very uneasy test of my relationship with my wife.

Oompa, she may just be very scared right now. That will subside.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

Which ERV do the Hippo and the Whale share in common. I mean, I've read my Rudyard Kipling so I know where the Rhino got his skin and where the Whale got his throat and where the Elephant got his trunk, but I must admit I don't know where the Hippo got his ERV.

Thanks!

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

Here are nine fossils, not pictures, of the development of horses from a small dog sized animal-
http://chem.tufts.edu/science/evolution/HorseEvolution.htm

And yet, a horse. What non-horse animal descended, for certain, from the same animal?

Wadoma tribe has a high percentage of an aberrant 7th chromosome causing an apparent "ostrich" foot, yet they are human. Will their spotty fossil remains be pegged as a different species by later intelligent lifeforms perusing the remains of our planet?

Kung Bushmen (with an average height of just four feet, ten inches) in Africa inhabit the same continent with extremely tall Maasai. Surely these were different species, right?

All human.

It just doesn't wash.

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

serotonin_wraith,

From the site you linked to:

Molecular data from DNA samples, indicate whales arose from artiodactyls, which include hippos, not mesonychids, and that hippos are in fact the closest living relatives to whales ...

I am hypersensitive to certain "exit strategy" words due to my long history with a certain religion. Permit me to reword the statement and ask if you agree:

Molecular data from DNA samples positively proves that whales share genetic similarities with artiodactyls; which include hippos, not mesonychids, and that hippos are in fact genetically the most similar non-extinct animals to whales ...

Do you agree with that statement? If so, is there any other explanation that fits these facts apart from common ancestry? If so, is there any reason, apart from assumptive bias, for choosing common ancestry as the cause of the genetic similarities?

Let's try that again.

The remains of Pakicetus are closely linked to river channels, which suggest the creature spent part time around and perhaps in water. Subtle clues in the anatomy of Pakicetus cause scientists to declare the creature an early whale.

The remains of Pakicetus are closely linked to river channels, which suggest the creature spent part time around and perhaps in water. Subtle clues in the anatomy of the now-extinct Pakicetus cause scientists to declare the creature structurally quite similar to whales.

What is so cute is the pictures they draw to illustrate the similarity. It reminds me of this trait of humanity:

Yes, it is very tempting for humans to compare things that look similar and group these things together, attributing characteristics and behaviors that have never been observed to be true. <sigh!> It is called "prejudice"; it is never absent a huge quantity of BIAS. The "IA" can be omitted from "BIAS" and you will have the best description of the scientific validity of resultant conclusions.

—AuldSoul

365

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

by Perry in

i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

(intellignet design).

AuldSoul

There is no proof of interbreeding in Lesser Black-backed Gulls and Herring Gulls, a classic example of a ring species, but then you wouldn't know that.

Oh, that is rich. Did you even read the sources you offered? They disagree directly with the statement you made here.

Proof of a few instances of successful interbreeding or the absence thereof cannot possibly be the standard for speciation, can it?

With Rapidly Declining Respect,
AuldSoul