Posts by Sheepish

114

Do you support gay marriage?

by chappy in

is your belief moral, social or practical?

would you feel the same way if there were absolutely no religious influence on the matter pro or con?.

regardless of your belief, does every adult have a fundimental right to marry anyone of his or her choosing, regardless of gender?.

Sheepish

I could live in a world where people go about their own business and judge their neighbors by how well their yard is maintained, not by the sex of the person in their bed. Unfortunately, I don't live in that world. I just have to do what I can to make my world a better place to live, now.

joelbear.GAg. I think we do live in a world where people judge their neighbors by how well their yard is maintained! And how expensive their car is, and what they look like. If I had my druthers, people would "judge" others how they want to be judged.I respect your dad for deciding to be loving to you and your partner. If he had a belief system in place that encouraged him to do that to begin with, you might not have had to go through a bunch of crap first.I apologize for anyone who called themselves Christian, and was unkind to you on the basis of your lifestyle. That is NOT what Jesus taught. The only ones he really lamblasted, in what we would consider an unkind way, were the religious leaders-who knew better! Everyone else he spoke to gently even while he spoke truth. Oh, and joelbear :

I have been "judged" and looked askance at, and spoken against, for my ethnic backround, my choice to be a Christian, my lifestyle choice within Christianity...lets see what else...my hair when I was younger.(I have very frizzzy hair) Human nature is generally (as in the majority or masses) low and petty in my experience.If life is going to change, it's going to change by people's hearts being changed-not by legislation.

I gotta confess, the adam & eve-adam & steve slogan may be true, but it turns my stomach. I am not sure why...perhaps because taking the great teachings of the Bible and boiling them down to slogans somehow demeans them. Enigma-Lol! I think you watch too much t.v.! You need to read the "rest of the story"! (Jesus reiterated the marriage set-up)

114

Do you support gay marriage?

by chappy in

is your belief moral, social or practical?

would you feel the same way if there were absolutely no religious influence on the matter pro or con?.

regardless of your belief, does every adult have a fundimental right to marry anyone of his or her choosing, regardless of gender?.

Sheepish

ps. I'd like to know why, here, among such a diverse group, it looks like we agree that people should leave their stuff to whomever they want to, and those in the familys of gays won't allow it?

114

Do you support gay marriage?

by chappy in

is your belief moral, social or practical?

would you feel the same way if there were absolutely no religious influence on the matter pro or con?.

regardless of your belief, does every adult have a fundimental right to marry anyone of his or her choosing, regardless of gender?.

Sheepish

Very interesting points being made..can't...hold...it...inside...must reply...

Children are not a requirement for marriage, but the institution used to be a nurturing enironment a place of protection, shelter & provision for little ones (there have always been evil people & exceptions to this.) and should be for women as well.

As for the DMV giving a gay couple the "eye" for a joint ownership etc: you can't legislate how people feel-you might be able to "legislate" the smirk off the their faces, but wouldn't you rather know who they really are & how they regard you?

I don't suport gay marriage on scriptural grounds. If I decide to play God and make the rules, that opens vistas of possibilites that probably won't agree with the next guy who wants to play God & make up his/or/her own rules. I agree with jstalin-not governments place to determine marriage.Biblically, Adam & Eve were the prototype for marriage (Jesus backs this up).

Auld Soul-well said!

Whereas marriage to an animal is not all that likely (peta would probably intervene!) What is likely is the progression towards adult/child "marriage". Specifically man/boy, since it seems women are not usually sexually attracted to little girls. There are groups for the promotion of man/boy relationships. Human sexuality is a fragile thing. When certain things are introduced in an innocent young child's life-it changes them, & I believe damages them for life. Whether they are molested by a male or female.VERY often that is the basis for a person deciding to "love" or trust themselves to only someone of the same sex.

Gay marriage won't "turn" anyone gay. But it will add to the normalizing of deviant behavior. I think I can say without too much arguement, that males have a strong sexual drive that, if given full rein, produces all sorts of, what we would call, anti-social sexual behavior.(apparently even apple pie hold some kind of allure! ) It is only society that keeps it in some kind of check (I would add religious belief as well-because where do the rules ultimately come from?) But then as you know, without actual charactor, society falls apart anyway...thus hetrosexual marriage is joke now.

I am not a fan of Pat Pew-cannon (sic) but joelbear, what you call the "caucation christian west" has made the society you have the freedom to live with another man in.(bad sentence structure!) It has produced and/or built on the rights and protections for women and children, diverse religious belief, abolition of slavery and democracy. Much of the just part of this was pursued by Christian people. I think we are about to experience what life will be like with a different world view as one worldism takes over. I don't think Gay marriage will even be an issue, & (LOL) I am sure you can find someone happy to "throw rice at you"! (You're very funny!)

Abbadon- "Life, Liberty & the 'purfuit' of happiness" have already been corrupted & co-opted for all of us.Chipped away at one at a time. This frog is boiled. What the democrats failed to do to us, the republicans are working hard at accomplishing.

Kinsey had a distorted subject base with which he made his "findings." I think he was the biggest joke perpetrated on science since evolution.

I was startled to hear a gay person admitt that homosexuality is such a small section of society. Usually you hear 20% being bandied about...5% hey?...& apparently very vocal!

Gretchen, why do you think non-religious people have such a strong emotional aversion to homosexuality? Just cause that's the way they were brought up?

Sorry for gassing on...

114

Do you support gay marriage?

by chappy in

is your belief moral, social or practical?

would you feel the same way if there were absolutely no religious influence on the matter pro or con?.

regardless of your belief, does every adult have a fundimental right to marry anyone of his or her choosing, regardless of gender?.

Sheepish

I believe Homosexuality is a perversion. But before you start lobbing stones or insults, let me add that I also don't believe in persecuting or judging sinners of any kind! Not my place. As was said earlier, what they do in their own bedrooms is none of my business. I don't go around showing my "disapproval" of anyone who thinks differently than I do-it's their God given right. I'm so weird I don't believe the state has any right to be involved in a Christian wedding. To me it's a convenant between two people and God (wedding and witnesses to the fact included).

The issue gets sticky when you start looking at it in light of society and history. There is a progression nobody seems to want to talk about any more. I think because we are so far into it there is no hope. The basis of society is the family. Has been for 6.000 years of recorded history. People are not smarter or better, (we just have more gadgets!) In America the family is all but destroyed culturally. Even most of the so-called Christians are divorcing and remarrying. I don't see it as being a good thing.I think in the rise and fall of Nations we are on the downside of the slope and picking up speed.

25

FREEDOMLOVER: update with my dad

by freedomlover in

hope you are all well.. if you have been following the soap-opera of my life and the letter i wrote my dad then you may be interested in the latest.. my dad has been here visiting and we had a good long talk yesterday about my letter and what has brought me to the decision to leave the org.

he listened to everything i had to say and agreed with everything i had to say.

his own doubts arose when he became an elder and got a clearer picture of the abusive tactics that are used on the sheep.

Sheepish

FL I am so happy for you! You know it's only a matter of time! You are wise to go slowly.

9

A visit

by A Paduan in

couple of jws (guys) came to the door today, started saying "we believe the world is ending and changing soon" - and then plainly stated - "this brochure here explains how it is going to happen".

{i thought, "no, this is what you think will happen, but you just can't stop yourself from getting to the next step anyway - just can't speak properly without fitting some kind of lie into it"}

anyway, i rejected them outright, in as few words as came to mind (six, i think).

Sheepish

I always try to be nice & not raise a suspicion of "apostasy". I try to plant a little seed because I still believe "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." I wish someone who had really known the in's & out's, had clued me in at a door.I don't know if I would have responded, but I would have thought about it.All I ever got was people who didn't know the Bible themselves, or rude people, who just fed into the society's teaching that everyone outside was ignorant.

52

What did you take with you when you left the organization?

by coffee_black in

leaving the organization, it is like packing for a journey you can choose what you take with you, and what you leave behind (other than people).

there are things i chose to take with me.

for example, i have used the sales training to my advantage over the years.

Sheepish

I took a lot of Bible Knowledge with me (after straining out the contrived interpretations & bogus translation). But one of the best things I took, was to stand up for what I believe in, no matter what or who is against me. No amount of peer pressure works (or worked) on me. Not even from the JWs. I also have no problem going to a strangers door, for whatever reason! Oh, and certainly not least-my virginity. I guess I was very blessed nobody molested me, but then I only remember one time I ever got in a car with a male alone, and he (a married guy) yelled out to my mom, "I hope you taught your daughter to behave!" I think he was afraid I would make a move on him! Lol! Maybe there's a secret problem with "sister's" throwing themselves at the "brothers!" Could be the next big thing!

49

Bethel "Vow of Poverty" documents scanned.

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

vow of poverty scanned from 2002 documents.

i believe these are the latest ones unless someone has a newer one.

i posted these in another thread but i thought it deserved its own.. ocrd with 98% accuracy.... initial cover page 1 of 4. vow of obedience and povertyto the.

Sheepish

Another interesting thing about the 501-C3 designation is FEMA has the right to appropriate and use the building, the land and all assets of Churches(who are 501-C3) when they deem it a "natural disaster". (There may even be other reasons they can do this as well.) In the 70's the Government decided that the Minister of a 501-C3 Church would be designated as an "employee" of the corporation. I wonder if that is the case with the governing body? In essense then they would be working for the Government.

I agree, the more I look, the more I see, many of the same things JWS condemn the Catholic Church for, they are guilty of themselves. It's pretty ironic to say the least...

49

Bethel "Vow of Poverty" documents scanned.

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

vow of poverty scanned from 2002 documents.

i believe these are the latest ones unless someone has a newer one.

i posted these in another thread but i thought it deserved its own.. ocrd with 98% accuracy.... initial cover page 1 of 4. vow of obedience and povertyto the.

Sheepish

Oh, it's worse than that. There is this "little" thing called a 501-C3 non-profit designation, that all the churches (who don't care, or don't know about!) file.

In America, Churches are automatically tax exempt. But because they want their members to be able to claim their tithes and gifts for tax purposes (and other reasons) (show me scripture on that one!), they trade that legal tax exempt status for a CONTRACT WITH THE GOVERNMENT. Essentially it says that they agree to comply with all additional (and future additional) laws and policy that the government lays down. They trade their freedom of religion for a NUMBER.*spooky music swells here* Jehovah's Witnesses are no different from most of Christendom in this! They are in an unnecessary legal committment with "The Beast!"

What that means is, if the Gov. tells you it's against the law to preach against, say, abortion, or homosexuality, from the pulpit, and you go ahead anyway, they can legally shut you down. Or, if you (Jdubs won't of course) endorse a candidate from the pulpit-they can shut you down. Or any number of things they might decide to do. This is really insidious, and most people, as well as a lot of Pastors don't know about it.

Yeah, a religion that says it's following Jesus, mentions they have a legal department, that should be your first clue!

49

Bethel "Vow of Poverty" documents scanned.

by What-A-Coincidence in

jw
friends

vow of poverty scanned from 2002 documents.

i believe these are the latest ones unless someone has a newer one.

i posted these in another thread but i thought it deserved its own.. ocrd with 98% accuracy.... initial cover page 1 of 4. vow of obedience and povertyto the.

Sheepish

I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if I repeat someone else's comment, but this doesn't seem too out of line to me. Any religious order would have a vow of some kind like this. Seems like they are pretty upfront about what you can expect. Just goes to show you should be really, really careful about committing your life away to an organization!