Zana

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Posts by Zana

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  38

  Fading is never 100% successful is it?

  by nicolaou in

  1. social
  2. family

  mum phoned last night to see how we all are.

  after fifteen years away from meetings and my old jw life you'd think my fade could be called 'successful' and for the most part it is.

  .. my resentment at being lied to and having wasted over thirty years of my life has left me like a glass of water full to the brim, it only takes a tap to make a mess.

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  Zana

  Simon wrote:

  One thing I've realized though is that it's not unique to JW families and upbringing. Sure, there are JW specific elements to it but most families are messed up and dysfunctional in some way it seems but everyone pretends that everything is fine and puts on a good show for public consumption.

  I think there are things that are important to us and it's our choices to make. We think of our dog as part of our family and have friends who are the same so know exactly where you are coming from. At some point parents stop having the right to push their viewpoints on us - it's as simple as that.

  THIS.

  In most cases in any family (JW or non-JW) at some point parents will stop pushing their viewpoints on their children. It seems though that percentagewise in JW families they do it longer and more often they never stop, compared to non-JW families. It's up to the (adult) children to teach their parents abound boundaries, because the WT will not.
  
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  65

  JW Expressions We Hate

  by Socrateswannabe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was browsing through stuff on jw.org recently and ran across some expressions that really grate on my nerves: loyal love, loving-care, and loving-kindness, as in: "please exercise loving-kindness toward your servant.

  " who talks like that?

  they must be relics of the fred franz era.

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  Zana

  Worldly
  

  Divided household

  Many JWs don't even realize how offensive this can be to UBMs and their JW spouses.
  
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  40

  How do you feel about the expression "The Truth"?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's amazing how the expression "the truth" has become such an ingrained term used by witnesses.. "we have 'the truth'".

  "is he 'in the truth'?".

  most here have found out so many facts about the organisation, and felt the effects of being "gut-punched" as we realised these facts.. so how do you feel about the expression "the truth" now?.

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  Zana

  And then there are the "Two by Twos" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_by_Twos

  "Two by two, hands of blue..."
  

  Never miss an opportunity to talk about one of the greatest TV series ever...
  
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  7

  Huge discrepancy between English and German wikipedia articles about JWs

  by Zana in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the english version seems fairly balanced.

  to me it almost has an apostate feel, citing coc or describing doctrine changes and interesting details about wt history.

  but the german version?

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  Zana

  Today I've looked into some of the Spanish wikipedia articles. Seem ok to me, more or less balanced with a good amount of criticism included. Apart from the general JW article they also have an extra article about criticism of JWs and additionally one about JW child sex abuse (only four languages have that last one: English, Spanish, Portuguese and Finnish). The Spanish one has a word count of about 5500. In the German wiki there is no specific JW sex abuse article. This topic is included in the general JW article as its last(!) paragraph and contains less than 300 words. The ARC is not mentioned at all.
  
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  7

  Huge discrepancy between English and German wikipedia articles about JWs

  by Zana in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the english version seems fairly balanced.

  to me it almost has an apostate feel, citing coc or describing doctrine changes and interesting details about wt history.

  but the german version?

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  Zana

  The English version seems fairly balanced. To me it almost has an apostate feel, citing CoC or describing doctrine changes and interesting details about WT history. But the German version? Copied right out of WT magazines! Example

  The religion makes no provision for members to criticize or contribute to official teachings[35] and all Witnesses are expected to abide by the doctrines and organizational requirements as determined by the Governing Body.[36] Watch Tower Society publications strongly discourage Witnesses from formulating doctrines and "private ideas" reached through independent Bible research.[37][38][39][40] Members who promote privately developed teachings contrary to those of the Governing Body may be expelled and shunned.[37][41][42]

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_beliefs

  Laut dem 1993 erschienenen Buch Jehovas Zeugen – Verkündiger des Königreiches dienen Rückfragen und begründete Zweifel einzelner Zeugen Jehovas sowie neue Informationen zu einzelnen Sachgebieten als Anstoß für die Leitende Körperschaft, die Lehre immer wieder neu anhand der Bibel zu überprüfen. Die Leitende Körperschaft nimmt diese Überprüfungen in „begründeten Fällen“ zum Anlass, einzelne Lehrpunkte zu ändern.

  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehre_der_Zeugen_Jehovas
  

  Google translation (slightly edited by me):
  

  "According to the 1993 book "Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of the kingdom" queries and reasonable doubt of individual Jehovah's Witnesses as well as new information on individual topics serve as impetus for the Governing Body, to re-examine the doctrine time and again on the basis of the Bible. The Governing Body uses these checks in "well-founded cases" as an opportunity to change individual points of doctrine."

  Not sure what to say. LOL?!?
  

  If anybody manages to get German JWs start researching the Org with wikipedia, they will just stay sound asleep.
  
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  29

  Why continue to suffer??

  by Tigerlove in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i occasionally come on this website because i have my eyes on a particular user.

  because of that, i end up reading a lot of people's post.

  although very interesting and hurt breaking, a lot of them are very strange.

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  Zana

  All of them claim to love their wives or husbands, but they insult them. To me, that is hypocrisy. If you love someone, but they make you feel like less of a person, why stay with them and disrespect them behind their back? That is why of the many reasons I stopped reading posts on this site. Stories like that made me very angry. That is one thing I've never agreed with. As long as you are still married to each other, you shouldn't be complaining about how they treat you unless you are willing to leave. If not, you shouldn't be bashing them.

  Well, we are dealing with a cult here. I believe these people in unhappy marriages are mostly bashing their spouses cult persona while still loving the authentic real person behind it. And they stay because they hope, they can make the cult persona disappear one day.
  
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  152

  If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  a few years after i quit the meetings my mum needed her medical directive signed and witnessed and she asked if i'd do it.

  i was surprised to say the least!.

  i think she was just angling to include me and maybe find some lever to get me involved again.

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  Zana

  Just wondering, because I am not 100% familiar with all this DF business:

  If the JW is unconscious and somebody else takes the responsibility, maybe even with a court order to overrule the bloodcard, and the transfusion is done, then what? The JW will get DFed no matter what? Or what are the consequences for him/her in this scenario? I mean how can he/she even repent of the transfusion if the decision was taken from him/her?
  
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  152

  If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  a few years after i quit the meetings my mum needed her medical directive signed and witnessed and she asked if i'd do it.

  i was surprised to say the least!.

  i think she was just angling to include me and maybe find some lever to get me involved again.

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  Zana

  slimboyfat wrote:

  But actually in response to your original question there are some people in this world I would choose to make live even if it was against their wishes. Not because I think my worldview is objectively correct and they are crazy. Or because I think my views are more important than theirs. But just because I am selfish and I don't want them to die. I'd have to explain it afterwards, but it wouldn't be in terms of: "because your beliefs are load of crap you numbskull". More like: "I would miss you too much, sorry." I guess that lines me up for criticism from both sides in this debate.

  This.

  5 years ago I had this discussion with my wife just before our son's birth. Then I said I would respect her decision und when the doctor came to inform us they had to perform an emergency C-section, she reminded me again. At this point I still felt it more important to respect her wishes. But honestly I am not sure how I would have reacted if the operation hadn't gone as planned.

  Today I would give her the blood transfusion. Because I love her and don't want to lose her. And because I think it's selfish of her to possibly let her children and her husband lose their mom and wife because of a badly interpreted bible verse. Also: I wouldn't be able to tell our children that mom died but I could have prevented it.
  
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  32

  Our Letter to Our Family

  by What Now? in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  our families have cut off contact with us for the last several months.

  they found out that we were celebrating holidays with our non-witness family.

  our families were our last tie to the organization, as our former friends stopped associating with us about 3 years ago.

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  Zana

  I especially like this part: Very moving, very convincing:
  

  Mom, you say that because I am a mother, I can understand what a difficult decision this is for you. But it is precisely because I am a mother that I cannot agree with or respect your choice. Because I am a mother, I finally know what unconditional love is, and I know that there is nothing in this universe that could ever change the relationship I have with my children. For a religion to destroy the bond that should naturally exist between a parent and their child is one of the most evil things I can imagine.
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  21

  Is going into a church really THAT bad?

  by Zana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  family background: my wife ("liberal" jw), me (ubm), two children aged 5 and 2.

  (want more details?

  -> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/279456/raising-kids-jw-mother-agnostic-father).

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  Zana

  thankyou wrote

  Zana,

  I apologize. I'm not trying to hijack your thread. Just want to praise OneEyedJoe's profound analysis of JW "brainwashing".

  No need to apologize. I also did especially like OneEyedJoe's (and slimboyfat's) answers. Thanks for your input!

  And please keep the fun answers coming, too! :D