Baba, the more I think about what she said after that, the more I don't think she even understand what I said. If she went back and read that sentence--about a public display--she wouldn't have asked me the other questions.
daniel-p
JoinedPosts by daniel-p
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76
Insane Email From My JW Mother
by daniel-p inshe starts out with some banal stuff about where they want to move, etc, then, she launches into this:.
that brings up something i wanted to tell you in person but itseems that i am not going to be able to do that very soon.
i amhoping to throw some light on what has happened within our familyesp during the time we were over there.. it has become very apparent to us now that during that time period from early spring on, in 200[x], satan launched an all-out attack on our family, son.
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daniel-p
Read the bible
Reniaa
Reading The Metamorphosis gives me insight into Franz Kafka's mind, but it doesn't give me a personal relationship with him.
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76
Insane Email From My JW Mother
by daniel-p inshe starts out with some banal stuff about where they want to move, etc, then, she launches into this:.
that brings up something i wanted to tell you in person but itseems that i am not going to be able to do that very soon.
i amhoping to throw some light on what has happened within our familyesp during the time we were over there.. it has become very apparent to us now that during that time period from early spring on, in 200[x], satan launched an all-out attack on our family, son.
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daniel-p
orb: lol! But no, really. My family has been through a hell of a lot of mental anguish, mostly caused by her. There were times when we could have locked her up, but who really wants to do that to a family member? As the good book says, love conquers all.
Also, I wanted to add for everyone here: I'm not posting all this to make light of it, or to just fling around my personal family drama. It actually helps me to cope with it, since I have a lot of negative emotions wrapped up with with her. My heart goes into overdrive every time I get an email from her, and this helps me to keep positive.
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76
Insane Email From My JW Mother
by daniel-p inshe starts out with some banal stuff about where they want to move, etc, then, she launches into this:.
that brings up something i wanted to tell you in person but itseems that i am not going to be able to do that very soon.
i amhoping to throw some light on what has happened within our familyesp during the time we were over there.. it has become very apparent to us now that during that time period from early spring on, in 200[x], satan launched an all-out attack on our family, son.
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daniel-p
Thanks everyone for your kind replies. I wish I could reply to each of you individually, but I wanted to give an update on the situation.
Things are going to get interesting. As you all know by the tone of my mother's email, she's a fire and brimstone believer who rallies the support of scripture in her favor--she's the epitome of self-righteous religious nut, sad to say. I'm not trying to insult her, but it's a very fair and accurate description. If you've read my memoirs, you know what I'm talking about.
So after I sent her that email (the one that was all nice and balanced), I got this:
Son, I need you to explain exactly what you mean by 'respect' of the 'privacy of my spirituality' please. I love you too mom
Ok, fair enough. So I send her this:
What I mean is that you not try to get others to encourage me. In that past, you've employed others to carry out whatever you think needs to be done; I realize you mean well.. but that kind of thing is usually counter-productive, and in this case, unnecessary. It also puts a strain on those other relationships.
Her reply that same day:
Oh you mean when I thought you were going to die?
Someday you may understand - Here's the scoop: I have never "employed" anybody to go visit you there. I don't even know the elders in [your congregation]. I remember Bro [PO's] name as you introduced me to his son, but have never even met the man. [Old family friend] told me that he wanted to go see you and "promised" that he would even tho I don't recall actually asking him to. That was his own desire as he really cares about his brothers, has known you since you were 8 yrs old and has always admired you boys, your sister & me. He has a huge heart full of love for people. I don't mind you making a request of me, son. I do feel that you could try to be more forgiving of the shortcomings of others & understanding of their limitations. And in your mother's case, I realize that I can go 'overboard' but thought you understood this in me and so expected a more loving way of expressing what you want.That last paragraph was actually kind of surprising... much more "with it" than it usually sounds. However, she still finds a way to "dig in" by implying I could have found "a more loving way of expressing what I want." That kind of hurt, because I honestly tried to be as loving as I could with my reply. So I get a little more blunt with a reply a day or so later:
I feel that I expressed what I wanted quite lovingly, in fact.
And no, I'm not talking about when I was ill. Just in general.Her reply:
I guess what I meant was, you being my son, I would like it if you put some 'padding' on what you say so that it doesn't sound like an 'order'. Whatever. I ignore the email. Then, a day later, I get this email, with my original reply broken down and replied to paragraph by paragraph: Son, I really was very glad to hear you express what you have been feeling. I've never harbored any anger at Jehovah. I certainly don't have anything to be angry at God for--I have a wonderful life, am healthy, and am very happy with [my wife]. And even if I didn't have those things, how could I be angry at God? Isn't that the lesson of Job?Well, this is a very good attitude..and yes, this is the lesson. Job did get adjustment thru Elihu's counsel & directly from Jehovah so that he saw he was exalting his own righteousness & also needed to pray for those 'friends', his brothers, whom Jah said his anger had grown "hot against" as they had not spoken "what is truthful as has my servant Job." They had to take 7 bulls & 7 rams and sacrifice them on their own behalf but in front of Job. I love that. I have meditated on what you said here, son, esp the sentence "And even if I didn't have those things, how could I be angry at God?" You have caused me to reflect on some of my own past & the feelings I have had and I feel pretty humbled by what you said - after all, coming from my own 'child'. With that said, I'm not going to go through life blaming Satan for every bad thing that happens, or thanking Jehovah for every good thing that happens, because so much in life just happens. That is the only way for me to make sense of it: to do my best, but to accept what happens in life. T his is true - "time & unforseen occurance.." Jehovah explains this here as Jesus also did when that tower fell on some people, killing them. And we have had articles on whether or not we should blame Satan for every bad thing - "no", we make decisions too, and so do others, so on & so forth. We must take responsibility. And, I've always felt you have done your 'best'. One of the primary reasons why I went "inactive" is because I no longer had a desire to have a sort of "public faith," where every one's spirituality is made a public display. If I'm to nurture any kind of relationship with my God, than it's a personal experience, and I don't feel a need to share it beyond a point at which the quality of the experience is reduced, and especially when that display is an expected, even required, component of worship. There is a difference between gathering together for genuine encouragement, and a constant, artificial "admonishment" that tends to wear down. I want to say how deeply sorry I am that you have felt your faith was being 'compromised' in some way. That certainly is NOT what our worship is meant to be about. This not only grieves me but grieves Jehovah. I'll stop there, because I don't want to say anything that would discourage you. I hope you can understand and accept where I'm coming from.I am trying. I can only read what you have said here and then perhaps, put it together w/ what you expressed to me in the little health cafe we met in for lunch that day. I am guessing that you mean the ministry? and perhaps you felt some form of unloving 'pressure' from an overseer (s) to keep up your hours and this may have been presented in an unloving way not considering your circumstances or even the person you are? Maybe someone rather 'overstepped' the boundaries of personal choice as well? From what you say here I gather you felt that this was more for "display" & therefore came off as 'artificial admonition'. If indeed true, this would be grievous. Do I have it right or ?? I wait a few days. Finally, I just decide to throw her a bone. I'm not sure why--perhaps to test her and see how far she'll let me really say what I mean. She typically will want as much info as she can get, but if it's something she doesn't want to here, she'll go ballistic. So I send her this:
I wasn't referring to anything anyone has said to me in particular. Rather, I was referring to the Society's arrangements in general. Basically, the more I performed, giving talks, going out in service, conventions, meetings, etc., the further I felt from a true kind of spirituality. Works are important, but frankly, I think there is just too much emphasis on them and too little emphasis on faith and a personal relationship with God.
Her reply:
I see.
You used a specific word here "performed"..That must be how you felt then. Son, when did you begin to feel that way, may I ask that? Finally, today, I tell her this: Primarily when I realized the hypocritical and false stance on higher education. What I saw as intellectual dishonesty troubled me and I started to realize that I had little desire to more and more works in support of a faith that was supposed to be my own.
That's really all I can say about it--and more than I intended to say. Again, I don't want to discourage you by my words, nor anyone else, but it is what it is.
I'm fine with where I'm at right now, and I have no desire to share my spirituality in the public sphere of the Kingdom Hall. And that's it so far. I don't think she's going to like what I have to say if she keeps probing for "the answer." She thinks there's something at the root of it all, and that she'll be able to reach into "my precious heart" and save me. The amount of Biblical rhetoric she has swimming around in her mixed up head is quite sickening, especially when she treats me like I'm the prodigal lost lamb or some such bullcrap that makes me want to hurl. So I'm waiting for her reply to see if she does indeed go apeshit. I really don't know what to expect. It's the closest I've come to saying I don't believe in it anymore, although I'm still avoiding that in order to stay properly "faded." All good things must some to an end, but I'll be the one ending them, thank you very much. ;) -
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Are Most Scientists Atheists?
by passwordprotected injames leuba conducted a survey of scientists in 1916. they were asked a whether they believed in a god who actively communicates with humanity, to whom humans can pray and expect an answer.. to believe in this sort of god would mean you were a theist.
if you're a deist, or agnostic, you believe there's a god but he's not necessarily interested in humans and we wouldn't pray to this god.. the results of this survey revealed that roughly 40% of scientists believe in this sort of god, making them theists.
40% didn't, making them either deists/agnostics or atheists.
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daniel-p
Are you just massaging a possible inferiority complex by hoping that highly educated people haven't all turned their back on God? (this isn't meant as an insult--it is an honest question)
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BADBOY, How was your holiday?
by Gregor intell us about your visit to the fort william area.
i googled it and it seems to be a very beautiful place.. .
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daniel-p
Badboy goes on holiday? Sounds like a Mr. Bean episode.
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226
Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.
by the research lady informer elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.
our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.
the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.
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daniel-p
I now have read nick's own words and his admitted goal of destroying the Jehovah's witnesses as a religion makes his Agenda as a complete apostate crystal clear.
Like I said in the past I was inclined to disbelieve the claims that apostates had real and active agenda's to destroy the Jehovah's witnesses and so I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but they condemn themselves out of their own mouths as to what their true Goals are.
And we're supposed to be sorry about this? Fuck that.
THE WATCHTOWER HAS DESTROYED FAMILIES AND LIVES AND REMAINS CULPABLE FOR THEIR HARMFUL POLICIES. They will suffer until they change their harmful policies. Simple as that.
You need to accept the fact that you're surrounded by people who have BEEN WRONGED by your beloved fruity little "religion," and that you're being duped into being faithful to a bunch of old men who do NOT have your best interests at heart. It's a corporation. Have fun worshiping it, tool.
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I would like to know if you have succeeded in helping your friends or family SLOW DOWN in their zeal as a JW
by BonaFide ini have read thousands of posts on this forum, and i am finding with all your experiences that however hard we try, it's difficult to actually get a family member or friend to disassociate themselves.
after all, some of us are still "active jw's", right?.
but, i have been noticing that some seem to have accomplished enough with questions and comments that at least their family members or friends are less active as jw's.
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daniel-p
I thought that my wife was a strong JW when I was an active JW. But as it turns out, she was holding on to my coattails. Once I wasn't going to the Kingdom Hall, she still went but felt free to be "running late" or would occasionally skip meetings. She started cramming her WT study in the car while I was driving with the radio on. She gets a minimum in the field circus. She's still a total believer, but she doesn't keep up with what they teach her to believe. She is attempting to make new friends, but it turns out that they are JW's that don't know me. I wonder that it is because the JW's that know me treat her differently now that her husband is "inactive." That is a huge help to her seeing what conditional friends she has.
Nice to hear this, OTWO. It's kind of sad, in a way, that our wives depended on us for staying strong in "the truth," but on the other hand, not really. I'm not going to fall for the old crap of being a "spiritual head"... that's just a way for the WTS to insert their drum-beater into every household and retain a means to exert guilt on the man if he's not doing everything up to code. It's simply too much pressure, and its unfair. I think it's because the WTS level of "worship" is really just constant going-through-motions, and of course they need someone to crack the whip for that crap--it's not natural to live like that because it inherently burns a person out. If their form of worship was more meaningful and personal, the wife wouldn't be near as dependent on the husband for "headship."
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I would like to know if you have succeeded in helping your friends or family SLOW DOWN in their zeal as a JW
by BonaFide ini have read thousands of posts on this forum, and i am finding with all your experiences that however hard we try, it's difficult to actually get a family member or friend to disassociate themselves.
after all, some of us are still "active jw's", right?.
but, i have been noticing that some seem to have accomplished enough with questions and comments that at least their family members or friends are less active as jw's.
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daniel-p
Yes, I have. I don't know if you're familiar with my situation, but I stopped all activity over 3 years ago and it was rough going with my wife for a while. However, our marriage is the best its ever been (better, I believe) and she's now fairly inactive herself. She still says she believes in "the truth," but her manner and habits are much more balanced that what they would want her to do. She goes to the SUnday meeting about once every two weeks, hardly ever goes to a midweek meeting, and maybe service once a month. She avoids contact with people from the hall, except one or two friends who themselves aren't core witnesses.
It's actually very encouraging, and only recently have I even thought about it and compared her activity now to what it was a couple years ago. So far, I'm successful in keeping her close to me and keepingour relationship paramount. We are of one mind and our love for each other is stronger than ever. I never expected her to exit the JWs fully, and just always focussed on complete acceptance and support of her and what she wanted to do. I would recommend the same approach for others.
-dp (quietly ecstatic)
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226
Recently disfellowshipped prominent Assembly overseer in Western Europe now speaking out against the Watchtower org.
by the research lady informer elder, and assembly overseer roberto from france will be joining barbara and joe anderson on tonight's conference call, july 18,2009. roberto was disfellowshipped in june 2009 and after many faithful years of service is now joining thousands of others who are speaking out against the evils of the watchtower organization.
our call tonight will be focused on how the country of france, as well as other european countries are investigating jehovah's witnesses.
the watchtower organization is experiencing difficulties in these countries for the inhumane treatment and exerting too much control over people's lives.
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daniel-p
I'm sorry besty but ex-members with axes to grind are not exactly unbiased objective points of view.
Reniaa
Current members with axes to grind are likewise potential sources of unbiased information. HINT HINT.
You're just sore because you hate to see people have legitimate complaints against the WTS. Well grow up and live with it--there are thousands and thousands of ex-JWs with legitimate complaints against the WTS.
Don't shoot the mesenger just because you don't like the message. That just shows how scared you are of the TRUTH. And the truth is that your faith is built on a pantheon of amateur theology and bullshit quackery. Face it. Actually, you face it every day, willingly, and yet you cling to an absurd stance that is completely illogical. The only reason for that is: 1) to seek attention, or 2) the presense of massive cognitive dissonance. Probably both.
JW policy harbors pedophiles. JW policy needlessly divides families. JW policy supports child sacrifice over the blood issue. JW policy includes lying and misrepresenting information to the outside world. JW policy includes fearmongering and pronouncing alarmist propaganda on a worldwide scale.
These are verifiable facts. No amount of sidestepping of issues or sticking your head in the sand will change this.
Rid yourself of the cancerous and false teachings of the Watchtower and you may yet reach the potential of your true self--which is no doubt, a loving, balanced woman with clear thinking faculties.