Thank you for all the effort you've put into this! I will be attending a meeting today for the first time in quite a while, lot of family pressure, younger brothers first public talk. Actually I'm quite looking forward to going with 'clear vision' But your post has helped me a lot. I think I may need a padlock on my mouth though so I dont get myself into trouble
PoppyR
JoinedPosts by PoppyR
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24
Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-30-05 WT Study (Walk/Jesus)
by blondie ingo on walking as jesus christ walked
go on walking just as that one [jesus] walked.
how is jesus christ with his followers in this time...?.
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5
All the things I disagree with
by PoppyR in.
last night i sat down and wrote a list of all the things i have disagreed with ..sometimes silently sometimes loudly over the years, some of these are.. yoga, mediation, hypnosis (all of which i have done, enjoyed and benefited from and none of which have cleared my mind) oral sex (no comment .
on another note.. got stopped by a mormon in the town today, he asked me if i was religious.. i said "i used to be a jw".. and as i walked away i almost hopped skipped and jumped, first time i've said it out loud, and it felt good.. poppy xx
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PoppyR
Last night I sat down and wrote a list of all the things I have disagreed with ..sometimes silently sometimes loudly over the years, some of these are.. Yoga, mediation, hypnosis (all of which I have done, enjoyed and benefited from and none of which have cleared my mind) Oral sex (no comment ) vasectomy.. yep that's done. Tattoos.. both got those. Women and trousers, and other dress codes (ie a brother must wear a jacket to do the microphone... even when it's mid July) the list was much longer, but it suddenly struck me, that all these things were rules of men, NONE of them are in the bible. (Ok I know tattoos are, but I feel the scripture is misinterpreted, it was referring to marks of other gods) Why did it never occur to me before? I've NEVER understood the birthday thing and it killed me as a child, and even when my boys were little and I was practising I always made a special day out of their birthday, ie going out for a meal or something, it just feels WRONG not to! Christmas I can well understand and happily live without.
On another note.. got stopped by a Mormon in the town today, he asked me if I was religious.. I said "I used to be a JW".. and as I walked away I almost hopped skipped and jumped, first time I've said it out loud, and it felt GOOD.
Poppy xx
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5
a By the love they have among themselves
by Crooked Lumpy Vessel ini dont know the hebrew word for fake love....but this is the love that i have seen over and over again.. last year my nephew married a sister from our hall.
this young man is a good hearted person and saved himself for marraige.
looking back now in hindsight, i dont think this sister was a virgin but i think she pretended as though she was one.
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PoppyR
Slightly on this topic, my husband and I realising we were weak and had not studied with our children for... well ever, properly! Asked the elders if they would set up a study so someone could come and do one with them. We figured at least if we weren't doing it, the kids were getting some kind of spiritual food. Also we have young pioneers who would be damn grateful for a couple of easy cup of tea hours! The brother told us that it was the head of the families responsibility to do the study and only in exceptional circumstances would someone do this. i said outright to this brother, (who incidentally I am very fond of) So the society would rather my children die than to dare to break some red tape? Because they know full well we were NOT going to study with them, but they would rather nobody did than be pictured as doing the wrong thing.. At the time.. yes I thought it was wrong, but did not add them all up!
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28
What do you call God
by PoppyR inok, very interested to know, for those of you that still have a faith, and it seems many do.
what do you refer to god as?
is jehovah correct, is it not, is it too associated with jws for you to carry on doing that?
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PoppyR
Poppy, I applaud your desire to know what is "worth knowing"; however, if you are truly interested in knowing your Source, why choose the archaic tribal deity presented within the pages of the Bible?
Hey James.. I'm still very interested in the bible, I STILL feel it has much to tell me, maybe not all, but much, I would also like to read other religious books (oops I said that out loud) Therefore I would like to read a version that is simple and non biased, as I now fear the NWT is not. Sorry it's not your bag, but it's the way I'd like to go, at least for now.
Poppy x
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54
Skirting the issue
by Virgogirl inwhat argument is put forth that women must only wear dresses or skirts to the meetings or in service and are not permitted to wear slacks?
where does it say it's wrong for sisters to wear pants, and how are they convincing women in 2005 to buy into this?
i remember many bitterly cold chicago mornings with frozen legs running to doors and back to the warm car as quickly as possible, wearing a skirt which was ridiculous and inappropriate to the weather conditions.
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PoppyR
This was a biggie for me! I was told years ago that trousers were not considered 'Smart' attire for women to work in. for example would you go to a job interview in trousers.. well actually yes. now I work secularly I find that out of 10 female applicants probably 7 of them will wear trousers. In our local congregation one sister who is actually still faithful took to wearing trousers and was criticised so much, when I defended her in a group I was told darkly that I did not want to be taking sides with 'rebellious' ones..So that's when I started to wear trousers to my book study (which was in our house) with absolutely no comment from anyone..I find almost all people agree nowadays the 'rule' is outdated, but of course it wont change. I've always been a non-conformist!
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28
What do you call God
by PoppyR inok, very interested to know, for those of you that still have a faith, and it seems many do.
what do you refer to god as?
is jehovah correct, is it not, is it too associated with jws for you to carry on doing that?
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PoppyR
Ok, very interested to know, for those of you that still have a faith, and it seems many do. What do you refer to God as? Is Jehovah correct, is it not, is it too associated with JWs for you to carry on doing that? Do many of you still pray, I think this is hilarious, because the first time in about 3 years I've considered prayer and it's as a result of 'apostate' thinking!! First time in years I've thought God might be worth knowing...Also a ps, for those of you that read the bible still, is there a good translation? Simple, but accurate?
Poppy xx
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586 607 Jerusalem destroyed.
by PoppyR inhi guys, new!
and i'm sure this has been covered, but i find the site has no search for me to look, so sorry if you've discussed it to death.
for the first time last night i came across information about 586 being the actual year jerusalem was destroyed.
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PoppyR
Thank you all so much, I have read every post and cross referenced every article was very surprised by someone who said "what is the significance of this anyway"!!!! It is THE VERY BASIS of everything I've been taught and I've been shaken to my roots to discover it's not true. I just want to go into the KH and shout it out...lol, but dont worry I wont. I am smart, I know the most sensible option is to leave quietly. I want to see my family, I want to see my sister get married (she's just about to) my brother and sister in law (who was my best friend growing up) are just about to have a baby. It may be cowardly but I want to be around to see all that and dont see disfellowshipping or disassociation as the way to go. And I know they wouldn't listen if I talked to them about this, just as I wouldn't have a few years ago, how blind!!
I just feel my life is starting. I'm 36 years old and the world is gorgeous. All the things I thought were bad, evil, not to be touched, enjoyed. looked at. Suddenly.. I can see. And for the first time in .. ever I think, i can imagine having a relationship with god that isn't about what i'm NOT doing.
Have so much more to say, but want to carry on reading, studying etc etc. I have ordered Crisis of conscience from amazon, i want to read that for myself.
Poppy xx
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41
Scales falling from my eyes. (very long!)
by PoppyR inhi everyone, totally new here.
and still associating with jws... have been baptised 23 years, that was at the tender age of 13 when i had absolutely no idea what i was doing.
i have always been considered a rebel...brought up in a family by a single parent, my two brothers are both elders, the younger being a regular pioneer, my sister a regular pioneer and serving in a foreign language congregation.
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PoppyR
Thanks again! I have ordered 'Crisis of conscience' from amazon and am awaiting it's arrival. funnily enough I work in a public library so have good access to lots of materiel. I cant tell you how I feel today, happier than I have in years, like the weight that was on my shoulders has gone. I dont need to feel guilty, I am enough. But it's still very bittersweet, the great thing is I have read some lovely things here from people who understand, I dont hate the organisation, I dont hate the brothers and sisters, just now feel they are as I was.. misguided and afraid. I read the most amazing letter from an ex JW to her parents in the 'best' section that had me crying it was so much how I felt about so many things, especially the demons as a child! I still have a LONG way to travel, but feel SO relieved that I have finally accepted what I think my subconscious has always known.
Poppy x
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49
586 607 Jerusalem destroyed.
by PoppyR inhi guys, new!
and i'm sure this has been covered, but i find the site has no search for me to look, so sorry if you've discussed it to death.
for the first time last night i came across information about 586 being the actual year jerusalem was destroyed.
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PoppyR
On the ref... it's 1972 Awake (not even considered fit for the WT) and it's 5/8 and pages 27/28 It has a LOT of archealogical refs, but when you actually read it properly, they are not substantiated. Here are a couple of quotes...
"SECULAR historians usually give the year 586 B.C.E. as the correct date for the desolation of Jerusalem. Why, then, do Jehovah’s Christian witnesses speak of this event as occurring in 607 B.C.E.? It is because of confidence in what the Bible says about the duration of Jerusalem’s lying desolate"
"Various attempts to harmonize the date 586 B.C.E. with what the Bible says are therefore unsatisfactory. None of such attempts fit the Bible’s testimony that Jerusalem and Judah lay desolate for seventy years"
Opposed to Ptolemy’s Canon and "VAT 4956" stands the unanimous testimony of Jeremiah, Zechariah, Daniel and the writer of 2 Chronicles, that Judah and Jerusalem lay desolate for seventy years. Thousands of ancient manuscripts of these writings contain the identical testimony. So, because of the problems inherent in Ptolemy’s Canon and "VAT 4956," it takes more faith to accept them than it does to accept the Bible’s testimony, which would place the desolation of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E.
Underlining mine.
From what I understand of this, it means that 607 must be correct otherwise it throws out the whole of the rest of the prophecy... derrrr.
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586 607 Jerusalem destroyed.
by PoppyR inhi guys, new!
and i'm sure this has been covered, but i find the site has no search for me to look, so sorry if you've discussed it to death.
for the first time last night i came across information about 586 being the actual year jerusalem was destroyed.
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PoppyR
Fistly sorry to be green, but what is DUB? I just went back and looked extensively through the WT CD rom, and what I found shakes me a little that basically I need to accept 607 is the year, because if it wasn't bible chronology wouldn't be correct. Because we need to count 70 years otherwise the prophecies about the gentile times would not add up. So the article (which was 1972. nothing since) says that it is a matter of faith. Whoooooooaahhh there horsie. But I will go and check up the reference you gave me thank you. I've done more scriptural research and study this past 24 hours than I've done in years...lol.