commentary on the letter of james--(reduced to approx.
15mb--bookmarked--and searchable) many thanks to the researcher who took the time to provide this for us!
some of the researchers here may want to "replace" the first copy with this one!
I remember thinking how brilliantly written the James book was, even years later when I felt low and couldn't understand why, it would be my publication of choice.
Later on while reading Crisis of conscience it came to light that the brother that wrote it was later disfellowshipped for apostasy! It all made sense.
Poppy
we've had many jh and minimus threads that start with questions.
we've had loads of "why do you keep doing this?
" and "get a life!
My own experience is, in the past year or two this website has literally saved me!
I came here full of doubts and wonders, and most of the posts were simple, well informed, non judgemental and encouraged questions.
I still read most days and enjoy the different opinions and reasons. And the fact some of the oldest posters hang around and keep answering the same questions is so helpful to new ones just coming out.
Please keep it up!
Poppy
to deconstruct the jw rationale surrounding birthdays, a few simple guidelines should be followed.. (1): don't waste any energy trying to convince a jw that birthdays are not pagan, if they suggest that, readily agree.
whether or not the celebrations are pagan turns out to be a non-issue that distracts from the main point.. (2): stay focused on the fact that jws disfellowship people for celebrating birthdays.. (3): stress the point that there should always be clear scriptural reason for disfellowshipping someone.
ask them often throughout the discussion whether this is the case, get them to reinforce this need to themselves.. (4): remember, the first goal is deconstructing their rationale, not giving them a new rationale, not convincing them that celebrating birthdays is a good thing.. once you have these well in mind, the deconstruction can begin.. jw rationale, in brief:.
One of the best lines of reasoning I've ever seen was on this board, and it was about dogs..lol
Every time a dog is mentioned in the bible it is in a derogatory sense, they are seen as disgusting flesh eaters.
Yes are we forbidden to keep them as pets?
by the same reasoning the fact that the only time the bible mentions birthdays is in a bad light has no reasoning power whatsoever.
Are we forbidden from wearing white dresses and having cake on our wedding day? These are clearly pagan.
I NEVER understood the birthday thing! And now I am so glad I dont have to, I've had two so far, and LOVE my birthday, what could possibly be harmful.
Poppy (one person who doens't mind her birthday coming round!)
it's been a long time since i posted here but i often read your messages when ian (dansk) logs on.
as most of you will know, ian will be going back into hospital on monday for an allogeneic stem cell transplant and will be away from the forum for a good few weeks (hopefully he'll be back home within 4-6 weeks).
last time he was in hospital many of you sent messages to his ward and i know they cheered him up immensely.
Hi Claire
I'm sorry I have only just seen this message, I must have missed it first time it was posted. I tried to click on the link but I could not get it to open, I dont know if it's the time of day, I will keep trying, but please give Ian my regards, I've only met him once (at the apostacurry!) but have really enjoyed his posts and thoughts.
Much Love to you both
Poppy
and please dont give me links to read.
i dont want a complicated version; just a very simple explanation on the theory of evolution, and if possible, in your own words.
many of us are very ignorant on this subject and it seems that a few here are very knowledgeable so i hope you can help me and others also.. also if you believe in the theory of common descent, could you explain that to me also?
Under that system, the brown haired, brown eyed, 5ft tall people of the world would think of themselves as a different life form than the blond haired, blue eyed, 6 ft tall people (again, just an illustration here).
You see this doesn't make sense, because a brown haired 5ft tall person can quite happily mate with a 6ft tall blond person and produce beautiful babies that have charachteristics of both. As can a tiny dog mate with a great dane, the offspring will still be a dog and only be able to mate with other dogs.
The fact someone with brown skin has evolved to the environment is one thing, they are not changing species. And if they mate with someone with white skin the children will get lighter again. Is this evolution? Or just as you get a particular type of pedigree dog by interbreeding, is it not more likely that two dark skinned people mated, and moved away and could survive in a hot land, and slowly the group got darker and more distinct features, If the dark skinned thing is true, what possible evolutionary benefit could it have been to have thicker lips? Or for oriental people to have slanted eyes?
And I SO understand the question about there being NOTHING in the world today that is between the species. They are distinct. If we have evolved and adapted to our environment, why are we all still living together doing our respective jobs? No doubt some of you will be shaking your heads and thinking how stupid that is, but to me, it's just common sense.
Thanks to Warlock and Dave for making this a really interesting discussion. I'm still on the fence, but have some better understanding.
Poppy
and please dont give me links to read.
i dont want a complicated version; just a very simple explanation on the theory of evolution, and if possible, in your own words.
many of us are very ignorant on this subject and it seems that a few here are very knowledgeable so i hope you can help me and others also.. also if you believe in the theory of common descent, could you explain that to me also?
Thank you Dave for a reasoned and reasonable response. It makes sense,
Evolution is something I am moving towards but years of all the 'answers' being given to me have left me with big doubts, such as those Warlock mentioned about other animals having nothing like the infrastructure humans do.
No thanks to Inq, being called 'poppy dear' is just patronising and immediately removes my interest from anything else you said, you might like to read 'how to win friends and influence people' it's a fabulous book about how to get people round to your point of view WITHOUT making them irritated or take a dislike to you.
This is a forum, therefore a public post will no doubt arouse debate, it would be a very uninteresting place if that were not the case. If my children ask me to explain something, I would encourage them to come back at me with 'but what if' because that encourages them to learn and question.
Poppy
i can confirm (as there seems to be some doubt) at the service meeting last night during the item about the new watchtower, a letter was read by the po.
the public talk is to be 30 minutes long.
this is to allow for more association and ministry.. lengthy negative introductions about the state of the system of things/deep last days etc are to be heavily curtailed.
From what I remember the WT study ALWAYS Went overtime! It used to drive me insane, as if 2 hours at a meeting wasn't enough they had to waffle for the first half, rush through the second half, check the clock.. yep we should be singing now, but lets just do the review, same old wrinklies every week putting their hands up, song starts at the time the meeting should have finished...
My bet is this 15 minutes extra will just give them more excuse to waffle in the WT
If I was still going this would have been very welcome news, but a drop in the ocean to relieve the burden!
Poppy
and please dont give me links to read.
i dont want a complicated version; just a very simple explanation on the theory of evolution, and if possible, in your own words.
many of us are very ignorant on this subject and it seems that a few here are very knowledgeable so i hope you can help me and others also.. also if you believe in the theory of common descent, could you explain that to me also?
This is so typical of an interesting discussion that had degenerated because those that believe in evolution insist on calling anyone who disagrees with them stupid and uneducated.
I am neither stupid or uneducated, and was enjoying the debate, and had many questions like warlock such as why is there nothing that is between species?
But now... dare I ask them because someone will no doubt shoot me down in flames because I am so STUPID for not knowing what I believe any more after almost 40 years in a mind control cult.
We've all come from a place where we are told what to believe, hopefully now we can all respect each others opinions even if we disagree.
a couple fo days ago two witnesses knocked with their children, they gave me flowers and a card with the following message:.
"we want you know that we love you, and that you are in our prayers..we are thinking about you.. we remember too, and are grateful for yur support in the past, especially 6 years ago, when you came to the home, following our loss of dennis (not his real name).. in these last days, life is harder then ever.
satan is trying to break all of us, be it through health problems, the ones we love and even our brothers and sisters where it hurts the most.
I think the hard thing for me is that I know they feel sorry for ME!! I had a conversation with my sister where she talked about helping me to regain faith etc. I just ended up getting mad which I really didn't want to do, because it was so patronising. I said why would I need faith to believe something if it was obviously true! I dont need faith to know the sky is blue.
BUT, I do feel that this is done in a kind spirit, they genuinely believe they are doing the right thing, and the best thing if you are fading is to ignore it. Any kind of response will motivate them to think either they did the right thing, and carry on trying to 'encourage' you, or that you are an apostate and action needs to be taken.
Poppy
i've been seeing an amazing man for a few months now.
i recently found out that before we met, my boyfriend had been thinking about getting back together with his ex-girlfriend.
(who is going through a divorce of her own right now) they have a two year old son together.. he says that if his child weren't involved, he wouldn't even consider going back to her.
Stand back, give him space, if he chooses her (this is not about the child, it's a straight decision between you and her, dont confuse things) then you are well rid.
If you convince him to stay, you will be sorry a few months down the line. If he stays, it needs to be completely his choice.
Poppy
