WOW!!! Watch out for this guy you animals!
On his web page he says that he knows the secret wisdom of the name of God 4Q300I ii4=4Q299 2 i I4.
And I thought that I was the only one who knew! Word must be getting out.
Copernicus
JoinedPosts by Copernicus
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25
Observation by an outsider
by MikeNightHaShev ini notice that because the jw's point out flaws with the churches doctrines and beliefs that instead of fixing or repenting or solving the issues it's easier for church people to form a backlash whether it's honest or falacious in order to displace blame and smokescreen their own inadequacies.. you can not heal yourself by pointing out anothers wounds, you also can not solve your problems by displacing them instead of admiting and addressing them.. if a jw or anyone else points out the problem of abuse in the church then by pointing out an abuse in the jw elders does not solve the issues of the church abuses neither is it repentance as repentance should be.. if you can't discuss the bible and resons why you fall short and trasngress then by bringing up personal issues or attacking each other like jackals does not change those transgressions it just adds more.. as an outsider i must say all of you are like animals on their prey simply because you didn't like being exposed for your false testiments and false practices.
this means your emotional and psychological and spiritual level is far from being grown up.. will you dare persecute me for pointing out such observations?
a spiritually grown person will reflect on what i say, admit to it and try to change, but a child of darkness will feel their ego hurt and group rpide kicks in causing a person not grown to become defensive bitter and mean/perhaps even spiteful.
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17
Judging Jehovah's Witnesses
by Kent inmore puke!.
judging jehovah's witnesses.
religious persecution and the dawn of the rights revolution.
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Copernicus
Charles Colson explains in his book how even the most powerful men in the world could not hold together a conspiracy.
Then how do explain the long time existence of ALL the major religions if one can’t hold a conspiracy together? And please leave the “devil” out of it. According to your expert, even he’s not that good.
Watergate broke within two weeks of the allegations.
Really Rex, Watergate was a political action that took place in the glare of some of the most intense media scrutiny ever visited on a singular subject. Of course it broke. I only wish that Woodward and Bernstein would have had a by-line in the first century.
He says this is enough proof for him that the apostles and others did not die for some falsehood.
Good for him. It hardly qualifies as proof for me. People die for religious falsehoods every day. Martyrdom hardly substantiates anything.
They would have scattered like rats, recanted to the authorities, when people started to imprison and kill them.
Yes, and many of them did. I could very easily apply your same argument to validate modern day Mormonism. It just doesn’t hold any water Rex.
You believe because you want too. Any authority that bolsters your belief system is welcomed by you. I don’t share your delusions, though I have no problem with your personal right to have them. It’s the sharing of them with those who aren’t interested (or who know better) that gets on my nerves.
And Rex, did any of what you had to say offer comfort to a man who has lost his daughter to zealots? Hopefully, she won’t die a pointless death like the supposed apostles and others that you mentioned.
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25
Observation by an outsider
by MikeNightHaShev ini notice that because the jw's point out flaws with the churches doctrines and beliefs that instead of fixing or repenting or solving the issues it's easier for church people to form a backlash whether it's honest or falacious in order to displace blame and smokescreen their own inadequacies.. you can not heal yourself by pointing out anothers wounds, you also can not solve your problems by displacing them instead of admiting and addressing them.. if a jw or anyone else points out the problem of abuse in the church then by pointing out an abuse in the jw elders does not solve the issues of the church abuses neither is it repentance as repentance should be.. if you can't discuss the bible and resons why you fall short and trasngress then by bringing up personal issues or attacking each other like jackals does not change those transgressions it just adds more.. as an outsider i must say all of you are like animals on their prey simply because you didn't like being exposed for your false testiments and false practices.
this means your emotional and psychological and spiritual level is far from being grown up.. will you dare persecute me for pointing out such observations?
a spiritually grown person will reflect on what i say, admit to it and try to change, but a child of darkness will feel their ego hurt and group rpide kicks in causing a person not grown to become defensive bitter and mean/perhaps even spiteful.
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Copernicus
Hi Mike:
I notice that because the JW's point out flaws with the churches doctrines and beliefs that instead of fixing or repenting or solving the issues. . .
What issues? How might they be solved? What does personal repentance have to do with organizational “issues”?
. . . it's easier for church people to form a backlash whether it's honest or falacious in order to displace blame and smokescreen their own inadequacies.
Sure it’s easier. In fact it’s very easy when hypocrites starting pointing at splinters in the eyes of others.
You can not heal yourself by pointing out anothers wounds, you also can not solve your problems by displacing them instead of admiting and addressing them.
Maybe you can’t heal yourself (although I’d say it’s arguable), but you CAN deaden the pain. And you might prevent someone else from being hurt in the process.
If a JW or anyone else points out the problem of abuse in the church then by pointing out an abuse in the JW elders does not solve the issues of the church abuses neither is it repentance as Repentance should be.
What’s your point?
If you can't discuss the bible and reasons why you fall short and trasngress. . .
I don’t believe in the bible, so why would I discuss it?
As an outsider I must say all of you are like animals. . .
Well, at least you’re open-minded and not one to jump to conclusions. I like that about you already Mike.
. . .on their prey simply because you didn't like being exposed for your false testiments and false practices.
Exactly what are the falsities of which you speak?
Will you dare persecute me for pointing out such observations?
Ha, ha, ha. . . hell no buddy. You won’t be persecuted here. Actually I for one want to thank you for sharing.
A spiritually grown person will reflect on what I say. . .
Why would they do that?
So the reaction you chose reveals the level you are at, so what will it be, mature discussions or will you sink to lowly personal attacks?
Mature discussion about what? Your entire post was a personal attack; what is there to talk about in it besides how right and wonderful you really are?
I’m sure glad you dropped by Mike. You’ve added tremendously to the positive ambiance around here.
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17
Judging Jehovah's Witnesses
by Kent inmore puke!.
judging jehovah's witnesses.
religious persecution and the dawn of the rights revolution.
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Copernicus
Grunt:
I understand your feelings completely. Reading it brought to mind the different bible “studies” I conducted as a JW, and the conflicts they inevitably created whenever a family was involved. I cringe now when I think of the times I encouraged different ones to “put God (ie: the organization) first” – ahead of their own loved ones.
Jesus’ own words where used to justify this: “For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.”
Now, at this time, I don’t claim to have any real understanding of what the hell he was talking about, but I can’t imagine that practicing any philosophy which destroys familiar relationships can somehow be reconciled with his other commands emphasizing love.
I was part of a divided household myself. I can hardly speak of the deep regret I now feel for having put so called “spiritual things” ahead of my own family, who didn’t happen to share my beliefs; despite my many attempts to coerce them into becoming JW’s. My relationship with my son was effected the most. If you’re not in the borg, or somehow impacted by it, it’s hard to appreciate the pressure they bring to bear, and the tensions they create in a household.
There are principles in the bible that can help one to have a decent family life. When these same principles are espoused by men who conversely twist and mold the lives of their followers to the division of loyalty between a father and son, etc, it becomes a crime of the highest magnitude.
I can only hope that some day your daughter will see the light. Until then, the exercise of patience is your only option. Once you become a dub, there is the immediate pressure to make the congregation your family, and to disown all who are outside of it. It is a control technique, pure and simple. The boomerang like consequences of this loom large later, when one tries to leave the org. And they find they’ve alienated their former loved ones. Please try to keep your heart and your arms open. People wake up and depart from this cult every day. It does happen. In the mean time, keep doing your best to warn others of the danger. Success in this regard in the best revenge.
Regards,
Copernicus -
17
Judging Jehovah's Witnesses
by Kent inmore puke!.
judging jehovah's witnesses.
religious persecution and the dawn of the rights revolution.
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Copernicus
I think that the real issue (if there is one) to be raised with the author of this book is that although the dub’s will spare no expense or effort to fight MIGHTILY for the right to exercise organizational freedoms, they refuse to extend the benefit of those same freedoms to individual publishers.
I used to have a newspaper article on my office wall praising the Witness contribution to freedom in my country (the USA) and for their contribution in upholding constitutional rights. I threw it in the trash after I was persecuted by them for exercising my own right to speak, and observing their attempts to curtail free speech in so many others.
The whole concept is a contradiction in terms. Were they persecuted – yes. Are they capable of visiting the same persecution upon others – in a heartbeat! Where is the virtue in that?
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22
I didn't KNOW--w-w- THIS ! ! !
by ros ini just learned something from a post on the old h2o that has me steaming!.
(some of us still occasionally post there, including--bless his heart--kent.).
according to one poster, there seems to be something reallllly steaming at bethel since 1997 (assuming the guy knows what he's alluding).
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Copernicus
The thing that makes me sick is that she has three non-believing children who were jipped out of their inheritance!
They weren't jipped, it's corban now [8>]
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When God Hides His Face
by teejay indavid and nancy both carry a recessive gene for a disorder called zellweger syndrome, a disease for which there is no cure.
against 1 in 100,000 odds, they had a child who was born with the syndrome.
they named her hope, who struggled with life for 199 days.
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Copernicus
Hi TJ:
I was glad to see your response to my post. I thought the article was very thought provoking and I’m surprised it didn’t get more of a reaction on the board. I loved the title “When God Hides His Face” – perfect. It said it all in only a few words. As far as I can tell, God (if he exists) has hid his face from this young couple, and everyone else as well. I never could reconcile that with his supposed attribute of love, and now I believe that we have created an imaginary God in our image, not vice versa. Humanity needs to get past this worn out concept, but on to what?
Anyhow, I copied it and sent it off to a long time friend of mine today and we had quite a discussion about it. We came to the same conclusion as you:
Then, his last quote suggests that, like many of us who have become ex-JWs, he seems to be thinking of the big picture, of the world beyond his religious concepts. I wouldn't mind knowing how things turned out with them.
When you get a little distance from this sort of thinking, as we have, the whole thing looks so ridiculous, doesn’t it? Yet, just a few years ago my reasoning would have been similar to theirs. It’s good to be among the sane again, at last, ha, ha.
I’d like to know how things turn out for them also. Unfortunately there is very little comfort in the “big picture” either. No baby Hope waiting for them in heaven, or eventually to be resurrected and returned to them in a paradise earth. It isn’t easy to live with the kind of pain the parents have suffered, I guess I can’t blame them for inventing their own escape hatch, despite the cognitive dissonance that has reduced both of them to basket cases.
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15
When God Hides His Face
by teejay indavid and nancy both carry a recessive gene for a disorder called zellweger syndrome, a disease for which there is no cure.
against 1 in 100,000 odds, they had a child who was born with the syndrome.
they named her hope, who struggled with life for 199 days.
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Copernicus
A very interesting and poignant article TJ, thanks for posting it. It was also very revealing of the mindset people adopt (read: religious fantasy) to cope with the harsh and often inexplicable realities of life.
"I think David and Nancy have been entrusted with something [God] couldn't entrust to anybody else," says one. "I think God is intrigued with your faithfulness," he tells David.
Not meaning to be harsh, I think, sad to say, that the old adage “shit happens” would have covered this situation much more accurately, though of course it’s not nearly as emotionally satisfying as resorting to escapist anthropomorphic delusions. I suppose “God” is equally intrigued with the pointless suffering of countless millions who don’t even recognize him in the Christian context? Oh well, I guess God is funny that way.
Some thought this recommitment may have been part of God's plan.
God’s plan? This somehow involves a personal plan that God has conceived for these people? What utter nonsense. God is nothing if not indifferent. In fact, it would seem to me that indifference IS his premier quality.
But that rationale was more satisfying before the news of this new pregnancy. "Why twice?" asks Bob's widow. "What can God be thinking? Why not give somebody else this experience and let them do some growing?" Nancy says, "I don't think God is obligated to relate His reasons to me."
God is not accountable? How pathetic. Apparently he is the exception to his own rule. He supposedly offers the entire bible to explain his “reasoning”, and yet he’s not obligated to explain his “reasoning.” Does anyone else see an oxymoron here?
TJ said:
Sadly, it's the only evidence, a single piece of a huge puzzle, as it were, that points to a Creator. For me, there is no other evidence, anywhere.
I couldn’t agree more my friend, and I’ve come to exactly the same conclusion. I’ve even gone a little further by viewing the complexity of the human body not as proof of a creator, but as evidence of our own lack of understanding. Just because advanced physics may seem incomprehensible to a four-year-old, there is no need to assume that education won’t eventually resolve the mystery. The same goes for the entire human condition. We’ll eventually find the answers (such as they exist) in knowledge. Will we then be content? I doubt it. As the philosopher (one who Duns doesn’t quote) said: If God didn’t exist, we’d have to invent him. And this article offered exactly the reasons why that is so.
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Silentlambs and Signifiers that Signify Nothing
by dunsscot incall me a neopositivist, a semi-verificationist or semi-falsificationist, but the claims made by "silentlambs" reminds me of the shakespearean line that was quoted in the creator book published by the wtbts.
that is, the contentions of silentlambs seem like much "sound and fury" that in truth signify nothing.
i am of course referring to the supposed dateline show and the claims made about some members of the gb of jehovah's witnesses.
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Copernicus
Jerome said:
Without question he has no experience in these areas; that is abundantly (ab unda: from the flood) clear for all who are experienced to see, and his tediously prolonged verbosity now rings hollow. He is seen to be the apologist that he insidiously is.
To which Duns responded:
I do not have all day to dispense with the sum total of mendacious and unjustified vilifications thrust at my faith today.
The multitudes of first person examples of abuse that have been posted on this board don’t warrant some degree of vilification? Are the perpetrators not villainous? You must be kidding. I then have to ask, what WOULD qualify them as such in your view?
And:He now resorts to vague questions and trap queries in an attempt to put a true follower of Christ to the test.
Duns now resorts to exhibiting a persecution complex: the last bastion of the deluded, self-righteous, and hopelessly defeated.
Yes Duns, Jerome is right, you have no experience in these areas and you are arguing out of your depth. Why do that?
To Isis:
Welcome to the board, that thanks for speaking up. I can imagine how trying disputes like this are to someone who has suffered as you have.
As we seen played out over and over again in the political arena in these types of situations, the Society also will attempt to deny, deny, deny (thereby showing their complete indifference to the pain of their victims). . . until the facts are presented for all to see. For you, and others like you Isis, vindication of some sort is on the horizon. I say this because I too have had some recent involvement with the almost completed Dateline expose’, and I can tell you that this mess is far worse then I could have ever imagined. For certain, you are not alone.
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A Chinese Meal with Fred Franz
by VM44 innear the beginning of the book, "the orwellian world of jehovah's.
witnesses," one of the authors gives a personal experience where.
he and others were treated by fred franz to a meal at a chinese.
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Copernicus
Max said:
I have absolutely no use for the czars who clean up today. Copernicus tells it like it is in many well-to-do areas.
“Czars”. . . what a perfect description that title confers!
I wanted to note that in my post I certainly didn’t mean to imply that many of the traveling brothers don’t sacrifice greatly in every way to perform what they believe is a service to their brothers. They do.
But what I saw with my own eyes among those who I dealt with personally, was the dawning realization that the end wasn’t coming – and they had better do something fast to cover their butts. A perfectly understandable human reaction to an apparent fact. Unfortunately these same men continued to encourage the average pub to forego college, retirement planing, etc. Thus creating the same predicament for others that they themselves where trying to avoid.
What I’ve often wondered about though was how certain CO’s did seem to be selected for the choice areas. I have to believe that strings were pulled to get certain assignments, assuming one had the “juice” to make it happen.
Thoughts?