Posts by Analysis

6

Without Gorbachev or Rutherford

by metatron in

what would have happened to the soviet union if it was ruled by committee.

permanently without any gorbachev?

i think this is worth looking at with regard.

Analysis

I have read that management of companies and organizations goes through 4 distinct phases.

The first is Warrior, who conquers to gain power and maintain that mode of governing.

Then the Prophet or the Intellectual who sees the vision to grow

Then the Professional Manager or Organization person who make the organization a run smoothly

And then finally those who Acquire Power without having to actually know how to build or run the organization. They are incapable of any creative thinking to make the company thrive again. They at some point in the future will be replaced by one of the three other manager types. If the collapse is bad enough it starts fresh with a Warrior. If not a total collapse then one of the other types can revitalize the Organization.

I think the WTBTS is under the control of Acquirers, who are not really capable of doing anything to revitalize anything. They are only looking out for their own self interest with new surroundings in upstate New York. Some current Lawyer or Accountant will most likely be the next strong man in New York.

6

Without Gorbachev or Rutherford

by metatron in

what would have happened to the soviet union if it was ruled by committee.

permanently without any gorbachev?

i think this is worth looking at with regard.

Analysis

Soviet Union without any Gorbachev?

My two cents

I think Gorbachev was a catalyst, but much of what happened would have occurred without him.

I think one of three things could have happened.

They all start with a collapse of their ability to finance the government and peoples required needs. They would default on loans and therefore would no longer be able to import some of their required goods and services. They could no longer be able to support the Governments that look to them for leadership with the Foreign Aid and Weapons. Their realm of influence would decline until one of three things happened.

The German Model after World War 1. A new Dictator takes control and restores confidence in the National Honor of Mother Russia, similar to Hitler. Then you have stronger but smaller Russia.
The China Model. They realize that Capitalism is not that bad and do what the China has done the past 20 years.
The Argentina Model. The country wastes away with one corrupt Government after the other and loses it position in the World.

For Russia any of the three could still happen, but what about the WTBTS?

I think the committees of the WTBTS will end up with option 2, they will realize certain things are required to survive and attempt to maintain control over the population as long as they can. The lives of people will get better until one day they revolt or Big Brother concedes even more privileges. In China the revolt failed the first time, but now they are leaning toward more freedoms.

18

Reinventing the WBTS

by link in

i realise that i could well get shot down in flames here but it is my personal belief that the wbts will make a concerted effort to reinvent itself in the not too distant future.. i also believe that at this very moment they are working on ways to change the major doctrines that have become a millstone for them, without causing major problems and a mass exodus of the r&f.

as i see it they have to leave the vast majority of their teachings intact whilst removing or changing the problem ones.. by receiving some sort of new light on 607 b.c.e.

they would be able to change, or completely do away with, the significance of 1914. although this would need to be the ultimate aim i think it would be difficult to achieve without altering many of their current interpretations of scriptural prophesy.

Analysis

Link yes I do think that the 1914 doctrine, based on 607 as the year of the fall of Jerusalem, is unimportant. The average JW today can no longer tell you how they get to 1914 anyway and with the new publications they do not even address the issue in any detail. They could keep it or change it, either way it would not make a difference to most current and future JWs.

metatron is correct when he states; "The only efficient and rapid change seems to come from the Legal Dept - or
the Treasurer's Office. Money and law get immediate attention - not the cries for justice by the sheeple."

But, that is why I believe the mainstream changes will occur. It will be forced on them by the Legal Department and the Treasures Office. They need the money and they need to stop the cause of legal cases they can not win.

I tend to agree with what JT says about the change. Look, Catholics use birth control, they eat fish on Friday and most will get a Divorce and Remarry if they want to bad enough. However they still love the Pope and consider him the spokesman from heaven. Until recently most of them where proud to be Catholics. Those who have a reaction to the Child Abuse of the Priest still want the Church to survive and they think it is a disgrace what some have done to the good reputation of the Church.

45

God's Purpose Soon to Be Realized: WT idiocy

by Focus in

jw
friends

http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm.

" - http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm ?

http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm.

Analysis

AlanF said:

"I think that an important consideration in the present JW belief in the imminence of Armageddon is that Ted Jaracz, the head-in-fact of the JW Governing Body, believes that Armageddon is imminent."

Some on the Board seem to know a great deal about Ted Jaracz and what AlanF states make sense. But, do any have proof that Ted and the rest of the Governing Body really believe the stuff that the Writing Department puts out? In my view at least some of them have got to realize after all this time that Russell, Rutherford and Franz was just making this stuff up to sell magazines.

18

Reinventing the WBTS

by link in

i realise that i could well get shot down in flames here but it is my personal belief that the wbts will make a concerted effort to reinvent itself in the not too distant future.. i also believe that at this very moment they are working on ways to change the major doctrines that have become a millstone for them, without causing major problems and a mass exodus of the r&f.

as i see it they have to leave the vast majority of their teachings intact whilst removing or changing the problem ones.. by receiving some sort of new light on 607 b.c.e.

they would be able to change, or completely do away with, the significance of 1914. although this would need to be the ultimate aim i think it would be difficult to achieve without altering many of their current interpretations of scriptural prophesy.

Analysis

Look at the example of the Church of Later Days Saints. They became a mainstream religion and kept many of their primary beliefs. They have done away with the multiple marriages, and only shun the most outspoken members of their religion.

I think JWs could make some very minor changes and become a respectable mainstream religion. I feel that they have been doing this for some time. But, progress is choppy and it seems that the Strict Old Guard is actually making one final attempt to keep everyone in line.

But, if they did away with the destructive policies such as:

Disfellowshipping - Only Disfellowship National Figures who are active against the Organization or Mass Murderers. The LDS still shun 10 or 15 people a year. The GB just need to take this authority away from the Local Elders. Then instruct the Elders to turn matters over to the proper authorities if the offense is a real crime such as child abuse or rape.
They could keep their position on Blood, but never disfellowship or disassociate those who take blood.
Encourage the members to strive for higher education, which in the long run would mean more contributions.
Encourage Pioneering for only 2 years and then get on with your life, like the LDS.

If they did just those 4 things. They could keep most of the remaining doctrines. They are not the only religion that feels their leaders speak for god, or that the end is near. People want to believe in something. I think they could overnight actually increase their membership and contributions. The hours in Field Service may go down. But, they could have the Kingdom Halls packed on Sunday with the associated contributions.

Edited by - Analysis on 27 December 2002 13:13:13

14

FALSE PROPHETS IN GODS NAME ARE YOU ONE

by nightwarrior in

not from god then its falsefalse predictions.

/ false teachers wolves amidst the true flock .

jehovah god says no one can come to him except through( jesus christ ) .

Analysis

PROPHESYS IN MY NAME AND THAT PREDICTION DOES NOT COME TRUE. . THEN THAT ONE IS NOT FROM GOD

To take this one step forward, then the Bible is not from God!! Because everything prophesied in the Bible has not happened.

Utopian_Raindrops said

"I get confused as to what is right in Gods eyes"

The Bible does outline some basic rules that everyone can understand.

Love God

Show love for your fellow human, Do not return evil for evil

If it is within your power to help a fellow man you should extend a helping hand

If you believe something is wrong and you do it anyway you have committed a sin

I could go on, but I think you can see the point.

26

The Next Teaching to Fall

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

while many have had their hopes dashed concerning the change on this "generation " teaching, there is yet another teaching yet to fall very soon.it must and will fall because it connected to the generation doctrine that has already been changed.. the teaching that could shortly cause the governing body a serious problem and could bring about a major change for the vast majority of the rank and file is "the great tribulation".while this teaching has been put off to the " indefinite future"the gb.continues to have a serious problem with it.if the great tribulation fails to occur reasonably soon,the doctrine concerning the earthly hope for the vast majority of jw's.will have proven to have been false.the' great crowd' are those who will have come out of the great tribulation.according to the society those persons began to be identified as present as early as 1932.so the youngest members are now in their 70's or 80's.. again, the time-line is running out!

and has the potential of adversely affecting hundreds of thousands of other witnesses in the not to distant future,as time passes without the fulfilment of their hopes for a new heavens and a new earth.. also, some time ago,there was a watchtower study article, i don't remember which one it was .it spiritualized, armageddon!

psalm 91,especially verse 7.it said that a thousand will fall at your very side and ten thousand at your right hand,applies to those leaving the org.

Analysis

The Great Tribulation as you said was extended to a future date. And I think the "Millions Now Living" quote from Rutherford has already proven to be false. So I really do not see the issue with those of the Great Crowd in the 1932 as being a big deal.

The Generations and the Separating the Sheep from the Goats changes really should have had a larger impact then they did. Do not get me wrong I know many who have left. But, on the world level they are still growing.

I really do not see any major Doctrinal Changes coming in the near future. Lawyers attempting to protect the assets of the Corporation are running the organization. They will continue to gloss over the teachings as they have for the past 10-years or so.

Any major changes will come when they are forced to change by Governments. Such as the thread on shunning and child custody, or blood, voting, and child abuse, these are the areas of change in the future.

49

the bible making sense

by jurs in

jw
friends

before i had started studying with the jw's i had tried to read the bible.

it didn't make sense to me.

(in all honesty, i didn't try real hard nor did i put forth alot of time into my readings).

Analysis

Lefty 0r Yadirf

You said:

"Quit calling a mistake a "lie". There is a big difference, you know. " The key is are you capable of actually telling the difference?

Jesika is correct we should stop feeding the troll.

14

The "Clean Organization" Myth

by metatron in

jw
friends

i just had to laugh.

the old congregation i used to attend now has two young.

unmarried sisters who got knocked up by their 'worldly' boyfriends.

Analysis

metatron said:

"They are quite capable of this kind of distortion now . .

The sad thing is that for most of my life as a JW they would write very good articles in the magazines about issues related to family life. If people would apply the counsel their lives would have been enriched. And then with one paragraph or sentence they would put all the good information that witnesses should follow subservient to mandates to attend meetings and going out in service. Sadly too many would only remember that one sentence or paragraph.

Many JWs have lost their sense of balance, their sense of what is truly important. These are the ones that are having problems and this group sadly includes many Elders and COs. Like you I could no longer stand it and resigned from being an Elder. 18 months later I stopped going in service.

With that said, I still dont think that JWs are any worse then the public at large. The sad thing is they no longer meet the ideals that they used to hold so highly.

19

JW's a FRUSTRATED people?

by Smiles in

we know that the wt portrays the jw's as a "happy" people.

the wt would have the world believe that the wt organization as a whole is a "happy" organization.

yet somehow they still believe that jw's are a "happy" people.

Analysis

Skeptically Yours

I fully agree with you when you said.

"Go and investigate any other group of people and you'll find the same instances as you do in the witnesses crowd.

Don't obsess too much with just this one group."

I have found some of the most balanced people in the world are JWs. I have also found some miserable individuals who have a college education and nice paying job.

I think, that Smiles observations about frustrations do appear in the organization. But, not anymore then the general public. Many here on this board have experienced disruptions in family relations as a direct result of the religion. Others have had their belief system taken from them, again because of religion. People feel inadequate about all sorts of reasons it is not isolated to this one group. But, is it really any worse?