Posts by enlightenedcynic

20

I Asked My Wife A Question Yesterday

by enlightenedcynic in

over the last two weeks since i posted about my wife taking me to the elders, i have been working very hard to save my marriage.

i have made arrangements for babysitting so that we can go out at least once or twice a week.

we have taken in a movie, gone for a walk, gone to the beach, gone to the museum, gone to a jazz concert and just yesterday we went to a coffee house and talked over a nice cup of joe.

enlightenedcynic

Hello All, Over the last two weeks since I posted about my wife taking me to the elders, I have been working very hard to save my marriage. I have made arrangements for babysitting so that we can go out at least once or twice a week. We have taken in a movie, gone for a walk, gone to the beach, gone to the museum, gone to a jazz concert and just yesterday we went to a coffee house and talked over a nice cup of joe.(thanks again for all the advice!!!) What I have also been trying to do(very carefully, I might add), is to encourage open dialogue and free thinking with my wife...a lot of ,"Why do you think about this......." questions. I ask them in a relaxed, non-threatening manner and I try to ask questions that cannot be answered with a simplistic response. For example, while we were at the coffee spot, I said to my wife, " Sweetie.........(long pause).......did you ever wonder why Jehovah created us with this(I point to my skin and scrunch my face up slightly)...flesh..., skin..., our body...... it is so corruptible, it decays and rots. Even when A & E were perfect, they could still feel pain, they could still bleed or be injured. Why do you think Jehovah didn't just create us like his spirit family in the heavens?" She looked up at me and I knew that the wheels were turning! She says that she had always wondered about that and doesn't understand either, but, questions like those will be answered in the new system. I know that it is not anything to jump up and cheer about but I can't help but think that if I continue to stimulate my wife mentally, have more conversations that do not invole the wts or their policies, engage her in activities often, maybe..just maybe, my marriage might stand a chance and maybe one day I will be able to help free her from this cult. ec

14

My Thoughts About The "Deliverance Is At Hand" D.C.

by enlightenedcynic in

just finished attending the dc.

i am exhausted and i only went one day.

my wife fell ill thursday night and she could not attend the friday or saturday session, and me being the loving husband that i am, i stayed home and took care of her and the kids(humongous smile)!!!!

enlightenedcynic

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that everyone was warned repeatedly against "independent thinking". One brother said in his talk that, "If you are not in step with the FDS, don't humbly submit to their lead, if you question anything God's visible org says and refuse to be readjusted in your thinking,....then you shouldn't be here. This dc is for lovers of Jehovah and his visible organization."(thunderous applause) "Independent thinking", "independent thinking", guard against "independent thinking", look at the examples of those who fell into the snare of "independent thinking". Satan tricked Eve into the sin of "independent thinking", a witness can not be a happy and productive member of the congregation if they are allowing "independent thinking" to influence them. That right there was some serious programming!! And I also noticed a trend. The heavy, propoganda filled, programming parts are almost always presented just before a break and song. To me it seems that they like to reinforce those parts with something pleasant like a song that the average jw loves. Maybe I am wrong...just my observation. ec

14

My Thoughts About The "Deliverance Is At Hand" D.C.

by enlightenedcynic in

just finished attending the dc.

i am exhausted and i only went one day.

my wife fell ill thursday night and she could not attend the friday or saturday session, and me being the loving husband that i am, i stayed home and took care of her and the kids(humongous smile)!!!!

enlightenedcynic

Just finished attending the dc. I am EXHAUSTED and I only went one day. My wife fell ill Thursday night and she could not attend the Friday or Saturday session, and me being the loving husband that I am, I stayed home and took care of her and the kids(Humongous Smile)!!!!! I will not proceed to bore you with my notes. The content of the program has already been discussed by other posters. I will just give you some of my thoughts and observations. The overall tone of the parts centered around control. All of the speakers constantly stressed "staying awake" in these critical times and how all jw's must stick close to God's visible earthly organization. One brother gave a talk, and the phrase, "the voice of strangers" must have been mentioned about 15 to 20 times. He stressed how important it was that jw's not "lurk around" on the internet in chat rooms or aimlessly surf. You could feel the tension in the air. What is supposed to be refreshing and encouraging to the friends comes across as nothing more than an opportunity for the wts to hand down more edicts and "suggestions". More and more this cult resembles the first century religious leaders that burdened the people down with endless rules and regulations. When a speaker was being introduced for his talk, if he was a long time dub, we got a brief bio about him before he came on. "Bro. Such & Such has been a faithful servant for over 45 years" and the audience would ooh and ahh, those were the ones not sleeping. The rank and file jw is a pitiful sight. They are mentally, emotionally and physically drained. It is a chore for most to be there, but they do it out of obligation and to save face(like me). Anthony Morris, a GB member gave the keynote adddress, nothing special...just more jw rhetoric, but boy did he crank up the intensity. "JEHOVAH'S DAY WILL COME SOON", were the words he boomed across the crowd. Maybe 10-20 years ago that crap would have had a different effect, but everyone just sat and listened, I did not see any heightened response among the crowd. He proceeds to give an illustration as to how the sifting or preaching work can be likened to picking apples. He says that when one goes apple picking and shakes the tree, only the rotten or unripe fruit will fall to the ground. The rest, the "good or ripe" fruit remains on the tree to be collected by the picker. My problem with that analogy is that depending on how hard you shake the limb, good fruit can fall too, but my thinking or course is not "theocratic". In the final talk for the day, the speaker, a member of Bethel for 37 years gave a brief review of the 3 days. He went on and on with the usual stuff, but then he proceeds to tell all that, "the GB loves Jehovah's people and that they don't want us to loose heart or despair. The GB knows that jw's are tired but Jehovah gives strength to endure. Look at the example of Carey Barber, another member of the GB, who in about two weeks will turn 100. Why he still goes to work everyday!!!" (thunderous applause) "Bro Barber even cracks that on HIS BIRTHDAY(4th of July), he gets a fireworks display!!!" (loud laughter from audience) He finishes up by saying that we are all in good hands, trust the slave that Jehovah has appointed and know that the GB values all contributions and donations and uses them in a frugal manner to promote true worship. I just couldn't help but think how much of a control this org has on the members. Everyone just sitting there passively absorbing the brainwashing. Every word uttered is meant to reinforce the wts' control on its members. I hated being there but I felt more sadness than any other feeling. THIS IS A F*****G CULT, no ifs ands or buts about it. I also noticed that less and less Jesus is mentioned in these parts. At the culmination of the program, the brother read a resolution from the GB and I swear the phrases Jehovah and the faithful and discreet slave were mentioned about 10-20 times in the part, Jesus...maybe once or twice. The wts has replaced Jesus, taken over his role, and the average jw doesn't get it!! So frustrating, but so typical. Oh, and a grand total of 5 were baptized on Saturday...thats right 5. Anyway, just needed to vent some, thanks for listening! ec

78

This Past Sunday My Wife Took Me To The Elders- Part 2

by enlightenedcynic in

thanks for all of the kind words and advice, i appreciate it greatly and will look to use some of it.

a special thank you to both cal and vitty for their pm's which gave me a different perspective to look from.. so the p.o.

meets with us in one of the back rooms and my wife starts to speak.

enlightenedcynic

Thanks again to everyone who posted a response. I do plan to stick it out with my wife because a.) I love her and I know that she loves me also deep down and b.) for the sake of my children. I am just gonna play that role of a good ole' jw. I know that my wife is very afraid, being that she came from "the world" after leading a not so savory lifestyle. She has always told me that she could never go back to that way of life. Of course now, I must show her gradually and carefully that leaving the org is not the same as returning to that past lifestyle. She is very intelligent and studies a lot(wt literature that is) and since I have been on the fade for a while, she views her level of spirituality as higher than mine. So in order for me to effectively win my wife over, I will have to demonstrate an equal zeal for the wt rubbish! Then, when she feels safe and comfortable with me(what 10 years from now?...(smile)..), I should be able to begin trying to reason with her on certain topics. Thats the plan for the moment anyway. Thanks again for all the words of advice and encouragement. This board is the best thing that could have ever happened to me. I will keep you posted as events unfold. Warm regards, ec

3

Great News For The Victims Of Hurricane Katrina.....WTS style!

by enlightenedcynic in

jw
friends

maybe someone already mentioned this, but on sunday, following the wt study, a letter was read to the congregation that detailed how the rebuilding work was going in the gulf coast.

this i was told was a re-read of the same letter done at the service meeting part.

as i was just waking up from a good 45 min.

enlightenedcynic

Maybe someone already mentioned this, but on Sunday, following the WT study, a letter was read to the congregation that detailed how the rebuilding work was going in the gulf coast. This I was told was a re-read of the same letter done at the service meeting part. As I was just waking up from a good 45 min. nap during WT study, I can't repeat word for word what the letter said. I was genuinely interested in hearing the letter because I wanted to know how many jw's were injured and/or killed and how many were displaced and how they were doing. Well, the brother reading the letter starts of by saying that all will be happy to know that to date 1,_ _ _ (I don't remember the exact number) KH's were damaged and have been repaired with many more to be worked on. (um, hello...how about the "friends"?) He then says that over 1,000 homes have been repaired by the WTS thanks to the hard work of the volunteer workers. ( um...what about the people???) Oh and by the way(my words), unfortunately there have been almost 2,000 families displaced by the disaster. So in a letter that is supposed to update us on the condition of the friends affected by Katrina, we hear about the status of the KH's first, the homes/property second, and then bringing up the rear, the people. It is as if the WTS was saying to the people, "Sure, you don't have a home to live in but cheer up, at least the KH has been repaired". Gotta hand it to the society, they sure have their priorities straight. ec

29

So I Finally Dissassociated Myself...

by arecibo in

hi guys, .

just want to say how great it is to be able to talk to people in the same situation.

sometimes it feels like there's no-one who can really understand what it's like being brought up in the jws.

enlightenedcynic

May I be among the first to say welcome. It must be tough, being disconnected from your mom and any close associates you had in the org, but cheers to you!!!

You have begun your journey down the road of freedom. It is my wish to one day join you and all the others who have left this cult.

Best Wishes,

ec

78

This Past Sunday My Wife Took Me To The Elders- Part 2

by enlightenedcynic in

thanks for all of the kind words and advice, i appreciate it greatly and will look to use some of it.

a special thank you to both cal and vitty for their pm's which gave me a different perspective to look from.. so the p.o.

meets with us in one of the back rooms and my wife starts to speak.

enlightenedcynic

NA....nope, not one mention of the "deviant" sex acts. She was probably too embarrassed to admit that she loves it. Like I said, it is only afterwards when she gets a guilt trip, "the society says this is wrong so I can't enjoy it." And no Minimus, I didn't get a little sumthin', because I refused that night, told her that after the early morning talk with her and the meeting with the p.o. I was just too tired. She wasn't too happy and neither was I because I really wanted some,but a guy has to have some self control/respect.

ec

70

This Past Sunday My Wife Took Me To The Elders!

by enlightenedcynic in

early sunday morning, around 1:30 a.m., my wife wakes me and says that she can't sleep and needs to talk with me.

i say ok and she proceeds to tell me that she wants a seperation.

i was hurt, but not shocked, because our relationship is not that close at this point after 14 yrs of marriage.

enlightenedcynic

Thanks everyone again for the advice. I have started another thread which completes this experience. I know now that I must be extremely careful and "play the role" effectively, until a better option presents itself.

I will keep you guys abreast of the situation.

ec

78

This Past Sunday My Wife Took Me To The Elders- Part 2

by enlightenedcynic in

thanks for all of the kind words and advice, i appreciate it greatly and will look to use some of it.

a special thank you to both cal and vitty for their pm's which gave me a different perspective to look from.. so the p.o.

meets with us in one of the back rooms and my wife starts to speak.

enlightenedcynic

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all of the kind words and advice, I appreciate it greatly and will look to use some of it. A special thank you to both Cal and Vitty for their pm's which gave me a different perspective to look from.

So the p.o. meets with us in one of the back rooms and my wife starts to speak. She says that she can't see herself being with me anymore because she feels unsafe. Unsafe?? "Why do you feel that way?", I ask. She proceeds to run down a list of things that I am doing wrong.

1. We don't work in field service as a couple

2. Family study is not held frequently

3. She rarely sees me reading my WT's or other literarture or preparing for meetings

4. (Drumroll please.............................She found this apostate literature on the computer, how can she feel safe or think that her children are safe with me beacause(her exact words), "Anyone who doubts Jehovah's organization is capable of anything".

The p.o. lets her words hang in the air and then says to me, "So what do you have to say in response?" I answer,

1. It is very difficult to bring myself, the wife and two kids(ages 6 & 8) out in door to door. I thought that by us taking turns in going out(each of us takes a child when we go out) that we were doing good. It is better than not going out at all! Besides, in order for us to work alone as a couple, we would need a babysitter and the only ones who babysit for us are the ones whom I pay to do it.

2. I agree, family study is hit and miss sometimes ,and I will do better.

3. I also agree, I rarely read WT's and other literature at home because when I get home from work, I usually have to cook a meal, wash dishes and tidy up(we both work and I get home first with the kids that I pick up from afterschool). I will try to do better.

The p.o. nods his head and says that it just sounds like we are overwhelmed and exhausted like so many other families "in the truth". He says that we need a break from our regular routine, why don't we send the kids away and take a vacation alone. Great idea, but my parents are deceased, and my other relatives are not "in the truth", so the kids don't get to see their uncles and aunt very often. My wife's mom is in the south, she is old and sickly so she can't manage the kids. Now what? The p.o. says that we have a difficult situation, but that Jehovah will help us. Don't give up and try to work this out since the congregation loves and needs us. Yeah, I can just feel all the love when friends pass me by and barely open their mouth beacuse I am not an elder or a ms.

The tone of the conversation and his voice now changes and the p.o. now says to me, "So whats this about apostate literature?" I answered that I don't have any apostate literature. I said that what my wife printed out was info about JW's that is freely available online. He then says, "Where did you get the old WT articles and the UN letter thing, certainly not from the slave's website?". I answered, "No, I didn't get it from the official WT site, but again, the information can be found freely online. Newspapers have archives online that you can access and Google is a very powerful search engine!". "But why do you need to snoop around online about the society, all the info we need is right there(he points to the library) and if you insist on using a computer, all you need is the CD", the p.o. says to me. He then says the words that I know mark the turning part of this conversation..."You do know that what you have done is wrong?". At this point my wife is glaring at me and so is he, waiting for the wrong answer to come out of my mouth. I chickened out and said, "In retrospect I realize that I should not have accessed this info online, I could have really stumbled across some faith damaging stuff". The p.o. sits back in his chair and unclenches his hands. "Good...good...good, he's gonna be just fine", he says to my wife. He says that I should pay close attention this weekend to the parts at the DC on the dangers of the internet and apostasy. He proceeds to offer a few more words of "encouragement" and then prays...my wife reaches over and holds my hand.

As we leave the hall and walk down the street(my wife is walking up ahead with the p.o.'s wife who waited alone in the auditorium for him)the p.o. says to me, " You know, I was were you are right now. I have doubts and questions..we all do, but see this thing right here(pointing at his head/brain) it is a blessing and a curse. Information is powerful, too much information can kill you! Spiritually that is". He then slaps me on the back and rubs the nape of my neck.....I wanted to scream.

We reach the corner and bid our farewells to the p.o. and his wife. As we are walking towards home, my wife says that she loves me and doesn't want to lose me and that my children need me very much, but if it ever comes down to Jah or me...there is no choice! She then does something that makes my blood boil...she puts her hand under my jacket and playfully scratches my back(her sign to me when she wants sex)..."Maybe we can do something tonight", she says.

Can you say trapped for the foreseeable future?

ec

70

This Past Sunday My Wife Took Me To The Elders!

by enlightenedcynic in

early sunday morning, around 1:30 a.m., my wife wakes me and says that she can't sleep and needs to talk with me.

i say ok and she proceeds to tell me that she wants a seperation.

i was hurt, but not shocked, because our relationship is not that close at this point after 14 yrs of marriage.

enlightenedcynic

Early Sunday Morning, around 1:30 a.m., my wife wakes me and says that she can't sleep and needs to talk with me. I say ok and she proceeds to tell me that she wants a seperation. I was hurt, but not shocked, because our relationship is not that close at this point after 14 yrs of marriage. She says that she can see that my heart is no longer into "serving Jehovah" and that she has tried to be a good wife but just can no longer bear the strain. My reply to her was that I provide financially for her and my children, do family study with her and a seperate study with the kids and go out in service(all this while knowing deep down that the WTS is a scam and racket!!!). She says that all of those things are just and outward display, and that my conversations show that my mind is not being regulated by holy spirit. She also said that the reason she can't be intimate with me(no sex in about a month and a half) is because I enjoy deviant sex acts(performing oral sex on her which she loves in the moment but hates afterwards..she refuses to do the same for me). Not one time during our marriage have I ever uttered any anti-society language to my wife. She has on occaision voiced displeasure with certain things but always wraps things up with a "just leave it in Jehovah's hands". I then said to her that we should just try to get some sleep and discuss this further in the morning, she says that there is nothing further to discuss and that she is going to contact the p.o. before meeting and arrange for him to meet with us so that she could see what her options were. Being that I have never laid a hand on my wife, ever spoken to her in an abusive manner and as I already stated, I financially support my family, I asked her on what grounds she thought she would be able to seperate? She goes to the bedroom, comes back and hands me some papers stapled together. As I started to look over them, I recognized that they were printouts of old watchtower articles, highlighted in certain paragraphs, newspaper articles that were not, shall we say, pro-WTS and a copy of the UN NGO letter that confirmed the WTS' status. Seems innocent enough right? Wrong! All that info was on my computer and she accessed it and printed it out so that she could show the brothers that I had doubts about the org and was viewing apostate literature!! I have to run now, but I will let you know what happened at the meeting with the elders and how I handled it. All in all I'm okay, but I am saddened that my companion thought nothing of "turning me in" to the elders. I love her very much and she loves me(obviously conditionally!!). I see now though why so many JW marriages are breaking up lately...as the saying goes...two's company, three is a crowd. I have a full sized bed. My wife and the WTS are in it. Me? I'm on the floor. Do I have grounds for a divorce? ec