skeeter1

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Posts by skeeter1

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  45

  2007 District Convention to hammer apostates?

  by yaddayadda in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this years "follow the christ" dc looks like it is going to be focused on avoiding all those evil apostates and their falsehoods, judging by some of the dc talks listed on the back of the june 2007 awake!

  do not follow false teachers .

  do not follow false stories .

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  skeeter1

  Old geezers in any religion get more religious as they approach their death.... Add to that formula, a self-righteous JW

  Skeeter
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  9

  SEXTUPLET PARENTS INTERVIEW

  by skeeter1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  parents of sextuplets share life's joy and sorrow.

  'it was really tough.

  i don't think we are the same people that we were before'.

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  skeeter1

  Parents of sextuplets share life's joy and sorrow 'It was really tough. I don't think we are the same people that we were before' MARK HUME Globe and Mail 18/04/07 VANCOUVER -- They seem like any ordinary new parents caught between bliss and exhaustion as they work shifts around the clock caring for the babies they have just brought home from the hospital. But the young Jehovah's Witness couple sitting curled up on their couch, as the sun sets over their home in the Fraser Valley near Vancouver , have just been through an extraordinary experience that they say has changed them forever. "It was really tough. I don't think we are the same people that we were before," said the father, a robust young man with dark hair, glancing at his wife. She has a pale complexion and had just let out a sigh after coming down from the nursery. She nodded silently and smiled as they exchange a knowing glance. On Jan. 7, they became the parents of the first sextuplets born in Canada. It was hailed as a miraculous birth, but soon afterward two of the tiny premature babies, born at just 25 weeks gestation, died at B.C . Children's Hospital. Within weeks, the four others -- two boys and two girls -- were seized by the Ministry of Children and Family Development to force blood transfusions as their hemoglobin levels dropped. That set off a continuing legal battle in the Supreme Court of British Columbia, in which the parents seek to define the boundaries between state powers and religious rights.
  The parents are seeking a ruling that the ministry violated their constitutional rights when it apprehended the babies. The couple, who cannot be identified under a court order meant to protect the family's privacy, recently brought three of their babies home; the fourth, a boy who remains in hospital, will soon join them. Upstairs in the couple's modest but neatly kept row house, the three babies are sleeping, side-by-side in two cribs, under the watchful eye of a relative and the babies' older brother -- who can be heard cooing over the new siblings his parents had promised him. The couple have remained isolated from the news media for the past three months, but they agreed to break their silence by sitting for a single interview this week. They are relaxed now and able to laugh about the surreal experience. One day they were an ordinary couple leading a simple life in suburbia; the next they watched news bulletins about their famous babies flash across TV screens. On the day the government seized the infants, however, the young couple were clinging together in a hospital room, weeping as they begged authorities not to give their babies a treatment they didn't feel was medically necessary and that violated their faith. "I asked them not to do that. They had no emotions on their faces. It was just like, 'This is what we're doing,' and they walked out of the room," the mother said. "I can't understand how you can just watch two parents very upset, crying, 'Don't do this. This is our children.' And they just get up and walk away." The babies were returned after a week, but by then they had all been transfused. "Anyone who calls themselves a Jehovah's Witness does not accept blood transfusions," the father said. "It says it right there in the Bible," his wife added. They were both raised Jehovah's Witnesses, and the issue of whether to allow blood transfusions should their premature babies need it, or the mother hemorrhage during birth, was never debated. In their family it is clear: Faith comes first. "We didn't even discuss it. We knew what we were going to do," the mother said. She stressed that the decision was not something pushed on them by church leaders. "I guess my biggest thing is that people have been told . . . as a Jehovah's Witness we are forced into making decisions and we're influenced by people. I just want to make it clear that no one tells us what we should do," she said. "People think that we are a cult and that we have a leader who tells us what to do. That is so not true. I do not let people tell me what to do." Even though their babies did receive blood, their parents say that has not affected their feelings for them. "The No. 1 thing [I want people to understand] is we are loving, caring parents. In the media it was portrayed that we don't care about our children. . . . Some people said, 'They want them to die.' Or they said, 'They don't care about their children because they are withholding medical treatment.' Which is completely inaccurate," the father said. "Another misconception that people have is that after a transfusion we feel differently toward our children, that we don't accept them or somehow we don't love them as much," he said. "Or we punish them," the mother added. "I don't look at them any differently because they got a blood transfusion. They were forced to have something that is against our belief." Both parents said that having their children taken from them has left emotional scars. Asked whether she is still angry about it, the mother answers calmly. "Yeah, but not like how I used to be . . . there's no point to being bitter and angry forever . . . [but] I'm angry that I was completely dismissed as a mother. . . . I was just disregarded." Added the father: "My anger is that they can do this and not have to answer for it. That's the thing. There is a large loophole in how it works, the [Child, Family and Community Service] Act, that allows them to do this." That argument is the subject of the court case to be heard later this year, and, while the legal case is important to the parents, they said that, for now, they are focusing on taking care of their babies. The infants weighed only 700 to 800 grams at birth, but are now between two and three kilograms. "They seem huge to us. Compared to what they were we say, 'Wow, they are growing so much,' and then when people see them they say, 'I've never seen a baby that small,' " the father said. "I don't think they are that small," said the mother, who joked that she needs to grow two new breasts to feed them. "I'm not Dairyland," she said. Looking back on their experience, the couple said that much of it is a blur. So much happened so fast, and it was so out of the character of their simple lives that it left them bewildered at times. "I wasn't expecting it was going to be as big as it was," the mother said. The father, who is on an unpaid leave of absence from his job, said he is loving every minute he has with the babies and will stay home as long as he can afford it. "Even when they are crying at night and you are dead tired and have 20 minutes of sleep, I still -- it sounds weird -- but I cherish getting up just because, who else would you want to have looking after your child? Who else would you want caring for them, feeding them, bathing [them]? As a parent, you always want to do that." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070418.BCTUPLETS18/TPStory/National
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  11

  MEDIA BLITZ - JW BLOOD & SEXTUPLETS

  by skeeter1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  while the va tech shootings have made top billing, the jw blood doctrine is also a top story in canada.

  canada press announces that the sextuplet parents & jw lawyers are in court, fighting for the right of the parents to be granted a hearing before the children were taken away.

  ex-jws protesting outside the courthouse appear in the paper, a nice picture too.

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  skeeter1

  Sounds like the Watchtower lawyer had a bad day in court.....

  • Not allowed to cross-examine the babies doctors

  • Not allowed to bring in own experts & Judge said he "had enough information"

  • http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=bf79781c-fb1b-4ecf-abc9-5d1ee60123a8&k=47582

  Jehovah Witness sextuplet case delayed

  Vancouver Sun

  Published: Monday, April 16, 2007

  A judicial review of actions taken by Children and Family Development officials when they seized four of the surviving sextuplets born Jan. 7 so they could be given blood transfusions against the wishes of their Jehovah Witness parents has been postponed until at least July.
  B.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Donald Brenner had been expecting to hear affidavit evidence from the various parties during a two-day hearing beginning today. But the family’s lawyers asked Brenner to order various government officials and the doctors who performed the transfusions to appear in court so they could be cross-examined on their written testimony.Lawyers for the provincial government, including George Copley — the province’s leading expert on Canadian constitutional issues— opposed the application and said there was no need for cross-examination of any of the affidavits.
  The family’s lawyers also wanted to bring in witnesses to testify about the purported medical necessity of transfusing the infants and the parent’s contention that the blood transfusions given the surviving sextuplets were not necessary.
  But Brenner said he “had enough information” in the affidavits and was concerned that allowing cross-examination would unnecessarily broaden the scope of the judicial review which is being conducted in chambers.Two of the prematurely born babies died shortly after birth.
  The four surviving children — two boys and two girls — were given one blood transfusion each. Three of the babies are now living at home with one boy still remaining in hospital but expected to be sent home soon.
  Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose blood transfusions as it offends a basic tenant of their faith which teaches that God demands they “abstain from blood.”
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  11

  MEDIA BLITZ - JW BLOOD & SEXTUPLETS

  by skeeter1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  while the va tech shootings have made top billing, the jw blood doctrine is also a top story in canada.

  canada press announces that the sextuplet parents & jw lawyers are in court, fighting for the right of the parents to be granted a hearing before the children were taken away.

  ex-jws protesting outside the courthouse appear in the paper, a nice picture too.

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  skeeter1

  While the VA Tech shootings have made top billing, the JW Blood Doctrine is also a top story in Canada. Canada press announces that the Sextuplet parents & JW lawyers are in court, fighting for the right of the parents to be granted a hearing before the children were taken away. Ex-JWs protesting outside the courthouse appear in the paper, a nice picture too. And, now, more stories come out...(see below). The case is on hold until this Summer.

  Most importantly, we find out that the condition of the babies. I pray they live.

  Also, it looks like Watchtower Attorney Brady is getting himself into deep doo-doo with Canadian legal ethics. Will he be disbarred?

  Mon, 2007-04-16 19:42 National News

  By: CAMILLE BAINS

  VANCOUVER (CP) - A lawyer for the parents of sextuplets says his clients'constitutional rights were violated when their babies were seized by the B.C. government so they could be given blood transfusions against their parents' wishes.

  Shane Brady wanted to cross-examine doctors, social workers and a government lawyer over their affidavits supporting the government's seizure decision.

  Cross-examining those who provide affidavits in a case is not a usual practice and Chief Justice Donald Brenner of B.C. Supreme Court denied Brady's request on Monday.

  The parents, whose names are under a publication ban, are Jehovah's Witnesses and their religion forbids the potentially life-saving medical procedure.

  Brady argued the doctors'affidavits state their opinions on why the children needed blood transfusions but don't provide any evidence to back them up.

  "There (are) facts that are at issue and cross-examination could help to resolve these issues," he said.

  Brady's colleague, John Burns, said they may appeal the cross-examination issue.

  The sextuplets were born at B.C. Children's Hospital on Jan. 7 - almost four months premature.

  Two of them died within weeks while four others - two boys and two girls - survived.

  Three are now at home, while one boy remains in hospital.

  Outside court, he said the long-term effects of the babies' premature birth, when each weighed about 1.8 pounds, are unknown.

  "The babies are healthy for babies who are born extremely premature but the long-term prognosis, the parents hope that it's positive but it's too early to tell."

  The children's father was in court but did not wish to talk about the case.

  He is asking for a judicial review on the decision of the director of child welfare to seize the children and an appeal of two provincial court orders that authorized blood transfusions.

  Kris Chen, a lawyer for the Crown, told the court that cross-examinations don't apply to such appeals.

  "I can't find any cases where a judge has ordered cross-examination involving the Child, Family and Community Service Act," Chen said.

  Margo Fleming, another Crown lawyer, accused Brady of being in the "strongest conflict."

  She told court Brady spoke to the provincial child welfare director and made assertions about the parents' rights.

  Fleming suggested Brady then used the information he got from that conversation as the father's evidence, but those statements are "strongly contradicted" by a social worker.

  "Is Mr. Brady going to continue to rely on that evidence, which is essentially his own evidence?

  "It is a conflict that concerns the director," Fleming said, adding the parents have different accounts of their conversations with social workers involved in seizing their children.

  The case has been put over for several months.

  Brady is a Jehovah's Witness who often represents members of the denomination.

  He has been sued by a Calgary man, who says Brady counselled his daughter to reject blood transfusions.

  The case involving the death of Bethany Hughes will go before the Alberta Court of Appeal on June 28.

  Burns said he and Brady are pursuing the sextuplets case on behalf of the parents to set a standard across Canada so others in their position would get a judicial hearing before blood transfusions are imposed.

  Brenner suggested there were "some time sensitivities" involved in performing the potentially life-saving medical treatment.

  But Burns said parents still need a reasonable opportunity to present their case.

  Outside court, Brady said B.C. is among few provinces that haven't enacted legislation to allow parents to go to court before the government can seize their children for objectionable medical treatment.

  He said some provinces put those provisions in place after a 1995 Supreme Court of Canada decision based on a similar case in Ontario.

  "Ontario, Saskatchewan, Quebec, Newfoundland, Alberta, all of those provinces require that even if the state could apprehend, if there was a concern about safety, they can apprehend the child but they must go to court first," he said.

  "Give the parents a fair hearing first before some objectionable treatment can be authorized."

  He said the parents had expert opinions from three neonatologists - from New Mexico, California and Ontario - who said the babies' condition did not merit blood transfusions.

  "Maybe not everyone agrees with the parents' religious views," Brady said.

  "Well, that's not what this case is about. I think any parent would be upset if they learned that the government could apprehend their child and interfere with the parent relationship on important matters without having to justify it in advance."
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  24

  DO JW HAVE FREE CHOICE ON BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  do jehovah's witnesses have free choice on blood transfusions?do jehovah's witnesses have free choice on blood transfusions?.

  vancouver sun (subscription), canada -.

  a group of top academics as well as former jehovah's witnesses are raising stark warnings about the ethical ramifications of a vancouver court case delving ... the watchtower society, the legal and political body representing the six-million-member religion, portrays itself as a champion of religious freedom.

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  skeeter1

  Jdubs have NO free choice on blood.

  You face shunning, getting ratted out to the elders by other jdubs who find out, the hospital liasion elder & other elders visit you in the hospital to make sure you 'stand firm', and then....they get you a jdub attorney to make sure you 'stay the course.'
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  185

  WT BLOOD GUILT EXPOSED TO THE WORLD

  by DannyHaszard in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  parents don't get a moral pass.

  toronto star, canada - 3. even the discovery that their parents were devout jehovah's witnesses and is there any other kind of watchtower congregant?

  raised only faint alarm ... rosie [email protected] the author.

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  skeeter1

  SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALSO BAAAAACK! I WISH I COULD BE IN VANCOUVER. Good luck everyone.
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  155

  Which avatars are your favorites?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some people's avatars make me smile, others make me think.

  there are some that i just love to look at.

  here are some of my favorites off the top of my head.

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  skeeter1

  No one likes a blood sucking mosquito, either.

  I like hamsterbait.... so cute & cuddly looking.
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  15

  Shock us, with a revelation

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tell us something that will give us goosebumps.

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  skeeter1

  Great news that the Big A is tomorrow. I don't have to go to work now.

  Skeeter
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  16

  Brooklyn Residents Speak Out Against Watchtower Society Project

  by Arthur in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  national times newswire - april 14, 2007. .

  watchtower headquarters unveils new roller derby rink.

  by arthur - times staff writer.

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  skeeter1

  Remember the days of the Sunday afternoon Witness skating party - the one where it was "cool" to hold a brother or sister's hand and skate around..... ooooh, la, la.....the days of imagination.

  The Society decided to take the skating party up a notch - to roller derby. In addition to Kingdom Melodies, Jim Croce songs will play. After all, Jim Croce is waiting ressurection into the New System and wrote the most famous of all Roller Derby songs

  Roller Derby Queen by Jim Croce

  Gonna tell you a story that you won't believe
  But I fell in love last Friday evenin'
  With a girl I saw on a bar room T.V. screen
  
  Well I was just gettin' ready to get my hat
  When she caught my eye and I put it back
  And I ordered myself a couple o' more shots and beers
  
  Chorus:
  
  The night (you know) that I fell in love with a Roller Derby Queen
  (Round and round, oh round and round)
  The meanest hunk o' woman
  That anybody ever seen
  Down in the arena
  
  She were five foot six and two fifteen
  A bleached-blonde mama
  With a streak of mean
  She knew how to knuckle
  And she knew how to scuffle and fight
  
  And the roller derby program said
  That she were built like a 'fridgerator with a head
  Her fans call her "Tuffy"
  But all her buddies called her "Spike"
  
  (Repeat Chorus)
  
  Bridge:
  
  Round and round, go round and round (3 times)
  
  Well I could not help it
  But to fall in love
  With this heavy-duty woman
  I been speakin' of
  Things looked kind of bad
  Until the day she skated into my life
  
  Well she might be nasty
  She might be fat
  But I never met a person
  Who would tell her that
  She's my big blonde bomber
  My heavy handed Hackensack mama
  
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  15

  Shock us, with a revelation

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tell us something that will give us goosebumps.

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  skeeter1

  On Monday & Tuesday, the sextuplet parents are returning to court in Vancouver. I expect there to be media coverage . . .

  Skeeter