Sorry, not to belabor or nitpick the semantics of nihilism,, but tetra seems to care, even a little bit, since he hasn't killed himself yet. Suicide is easy to do: jump off a cliff,take too many sleeping pills,run in front of a train,etc, but he hasn't done it yet.If you really want out,you'll be out, trust me.
It may be the case that he wants to continously enjoy something/someone/somewhere/some way that compells him to forge on.The way he describes life sometimes, it seems that no matter what "crap" (obstacles,conflict,disappointment) he encounters,he still thinks it's worth living out the rest of his life, whether it be minutes or decacdes.After all, he feels that it's satisfying to purge his JW demons by contributing to this board. Talk about incentive,project,or purpose....
If he truly hated his particular life, as opposed to the broader concept of life in general, he would have offed himself, but the fact is,even he realizes that things change,but more importantly people change.They change by choice.The choices they make determine where they go,and how they feel. This freedom makes them limitless in what they want to do,or where they want to go. So, until we die, we are always a work in progress.Death is the obvious barrier against what we want to do. Other than our physical death, what's stopping us? Nothing. So there is always more room for choice,change,and circumstance, however we define those to be. Even Tetra knows that if you become resteless,dissatisfied,bored,and so on,you can always make a choice to engage in something else,or go somewhere else, for better or for worse. Freedom isn't a choice,it's aready what we are born with and inescapable,wheter it be wealth, evil, religion, altruism, selfishness, or suicide. The problem is, we are nauseated by this fact of freedom and we can't do anything about it other than realize the fact that we are "sentenced" to keep making choices. It's like humans are free, but in a prison. We are "free" to make any choice we want, but we are "bound" to this process of making choices. We can't escape it, or turn it off. Sometimes we want other people to make choices for us, but even then, we still give them consent if we listen to them, since we can always choose not to listen to them or concede.This upsets alot of people. But, like I said, the fact that we are free enables us to "readjust" ourselves until we're where we want to be, or do what we want to do. Tetra sold his condo,wishes to pursue art for his own enjoyment,etc, and that sounds like he's got a plan of some sort, no matter how "small" it may seem to him.
Forge on, Tetra.
existentialist
JoinedPosts by existentialist
-
110
Why do so many people NEED to believe in a greater purpose?
by gringojj ini am an atheist.
i believe that this is the only life we have, there is nothing more.
i have no greater purpose.
-
-
existentialist
-
110
Why do so many people NEED to believe in a greater purpose?
by gringojj ini am an atheist.
i believe that this is the only life we have, there is nothing more.
i have no greater purpose.
-
-
existentialist
I guess you say "nihilist." I say "almost-nihilist",technically speaking, that is. My purpose? I say it's ALL subjective for me. I am selfish too,to an extent. And seeing to it that I help others that I care about,is also selfish, since it makes ME feel good. So I guess in one sense,we're not that different. Rock on, brotha!!!
-
57
Leaving JWs Has Made Me Intolerant of Stupid Thinking - How About U?
by Seeker4 inlori (my girlfriend - a non-jw).
and i had quite a discussion last night.
i am almost always a very tolerant, easygoing person, but there is this one aspect of my personality that has caused us a certain amount of tension.
-
-
existentialist
It WAS an intersting discussion, but since he has all the answers, its rather a moot discussion. He hasn't answered any of my questions,but he'd rather arbitrarily decide what is "good" and "bad," "right" or "wrong." I was just debating, but am now ignoring any of his replies,since he's "won" (groooan)
Seattle... I understand, but even in science,not all "explanations that make accurate predictions and explain all the available evidence",can be experimented on. That was my point in the beginning.Some can and some can't. For example, no one can perfectly prove the Big Bang theory since it's impossinble to do so,otherwise, we would have to go back to the very beginnning of the universe in order to observe the phenomena itself and provide the data in question.Unless we have time travel, it simply cannot be done. I was mentioning the fact that some things can be viewed as "infallible" like Newton's Laws of Motion, and some can't ever be proven, that's all.
As far as evolution, even in your article is says:Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.Well,which one is it? A "fact" or a theory? Evolution is a fact, but the mechanics of it are theory?,hhhmmmmmm.....
Call me a fool,but I am anti-evolutionist.Empiricism is suposedly the "key" to science,yet it still imposes speculation, and mixes it in, in some instances. For example, it can't explain what actually came BEFORE the Big Bang.I feel it ahould be either speculation OR "fact," seoerately not both, mixed together. Think about it:the plants came before botany. Humans have a tendency to apply abstract constructs to what is simply in front of them. Yet, at the end of the day, they're still just plants. -
110
Why do so many people NEED to believe in a greater purpose?
by gringojj ini am an atheist.
i believe that this is the only life we have, there is nothing more.
i have no greater purpose.
-
-
existentialist
"a self-serving, nihilistic asshole who finally fell off the edge of the world."
That sounds like a purposeful person to me..
As for so-called "nihilism",if you look at it a certain way, it's not true nihilism, since a TRUE nihilist would annihilate themselves and would therefore forfeit their connection to anything in the world and kill themselves.Yet, you're still alive,obviously,so you have an interest in something (you yourself mentioned "self-serving" and "selfish")which i take, is yourself. The continual (since you haven't killed yourself yet) interest in your own gratification is proof that you have a reason to hang on to life.This can be viewed as a "purpose" (which would be life) or at least a project of some sort, even if it's not rigorously defined.
Think about it:the nihilist knows that he is alive. That's where his failure lies. He rejects existence without managing to eliminate it. He denies any meaning to his transcendence, and yet he transcends himself. A man who delights in freedom can find an ally in the nihilist because they contest any seriousness or importance in the world together, but he also sees in him an enemy insofar as the nihilist is a systematic rejection of the world and mankind, and this rejection ends up in a positive (as in actively pursuing, or on purpose) desire: destruction. Any project of annihilation or destruction can still be viewd as a positive undertaking, especially if you continuously dwell on it and affirm it.
What I'm trying to say is,unless you successfully kill yourself,you are still caring about SOMETHING/ANYTHING,therefore you may have a purpose,as "weak" as you may perceive it to be.You are still connected to something in order to prevent you from killing yourself. -
57
Leaving JWs Has Made Me Intolerant of Stupid Thinking - How About U?
by Seeker4 inlori (my girlfriend - a non-jw).
and i had quite a discussion last night.
i am almost always a very tolerant, easygoing person, but there is this one aspect of my personality that has caused us a certain amount of tension.
-
-
existentialist
That's funny, since your grammar isn't anything to applaud either("Meant to write a bit more than that" requires an "I" in the beginning of the sentence).
One doesn't indiciate the other, otherwise a person who's excellent in grammar or spelling can never be "unintelligent" or incorrect about anything (how's THAT for "logic"?). Come on, take some responsibility for what you postulate.Sloppy "logic" = sloppy arguments. Welcome to the world of a logician.
Actually you shouldn't quote anything. Especially if the pot calls the kettle black.
Give me a better source for my defintions.
You're right.I don't have problem than my space bar,it's the space between certain people's ears.
You still haven't answered any of my questions about theology,but never mind, you have it all figured out. Keep smacking those people who don't agree with you.Who needs intelligent debate,right? Meant to write a bit more than that. Hey exist...: 'What spelling and grammar' have to do with thinking the poster is educated and intelligent - well, one indicates the other. Hope you figure out that html format soon. Try this. Click on the subject, then hit edit. Then fix your work. I have to do that all the time. Come on, take some responsibility for what you write. Sloppy writing = sloppy thinking. Welcome to the world of an editor. Shoddy writing doesn't mean I can't quote it. Not at all. Maybe just the opposite. That I should quote it. As far as the use of the term theory in regard to scientific thinking, try a better source for your definition. rmt1 - He's got a way bigger problem than just with his space bar. S4 -
57
Leaving JWs Has Made Me Intolerant of Stupid Thinking - How About U?
by Seeker4 inlori (my girlfriend - a non-jw).
and i had quite a discussion last night.
i am almost always a very tolerant, easygoing person, but there is this one aspect of my personality that has caused us a certain amount of tension.
-
-
-
110
Why do so many people NEED to believe in a greater purpose?
by gringojj ini am an atheist.
i believe that this is the only life we have, there is nothing more.
i have no greater purpose.
-
-
-
57
Leaving JWs Has Made Me Intolerant of Stupid Thinking - How About U?
by Seeker4 inlori (my girlfriend - a non-jw).
and i had quite a discussion last night.
i am almost always a very tolerant, easygoing person, but there is this one aspect of my personality that has caused us a certain amount of tension.
-
-
existentialist
1.What either spelling or grammar have to do with this discussion, I have no idea. But,if something is unclear, kindly point it out and I'll gladly rewrite it so that it will hopefully be even more clear than what it already is (at least to some of us).However, you say that my writing is "shoddy" even though you were still able to quote my "The solid 'assuredness'..." and so on. Interesting... 2.Our defintions are obviously different: Fact:n. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences Theory:n. Abstract reasoning; speculation:ex.a decision based on experience rather than theory. Two different things.But if you wnt to mix fact and speculation together then go ahead. 3.If you don't define science as infallible,then why do you rely on it? How is it different than JW teachings if they're not? 4.What do theories of science and engineering have to do with either faith in Creation, the Flood, or Jesus Christ? Please explain some "basic concept theory" in science and engineering(and proper spelling and grammar,for that matter). "Hell is other people"-Jean-Paul Sartre
-
110
Why do so many people NEED to believe in a greater purpose?
by gringojj ini am an atheist.
i believe that this is the only life we have, there is nothing more.
i have no greater purpose.
-
-
existentialist
Funny that both sides are conceding to existentialism.Hell,even JW's are conceding it to it as well.Even God/Jehovah/Allah/Guru Narnak/all Hindu,Shinto deities,etc can't ever control every single one of our individual thoughts and actions.Otherwise, we'd all be "perfect." I believe that that the word "purpose" is too arbitrary to define objectively. Is the purspose refer to oneself? All others? Animals? The Planet? The universe? God? Did Ivan the Terrible,Atilla the Hun,Napoleon,Alexander the Great,Adol On another note, if you feel good about being an atheist,then why even ask the question/topic up in the first place?It seems (in another incredibly existential move) that others will take notice.When one practices her/his belief, she/he is affriming it for all humankind. When a Nazi is practicing her/his belief, she/he is doing it, in his or her mind, for all woman/mankind.
-
57
Leaving JWs Has Made Me Intolerant of Stupid Thinking - How About U?
by Seeker4 inlori (my girlfriend - a non-jw).
and i had quite a discussion last night.
i am almost always a very tolerant, easygoing person, but there is this one aspect of my personality that has caused us a certain amount of tension.
-
-
existentialist
The problem is,however,that if one were to "smack" people for being "wrong" due to intellectual ignorance, then, in a limited sense, you aren't much diferent than the JW's. In terms of exact beliefs, there's an obvious difference,but the notions of "infallibility," whether it be either intellectual or theological/theocratical run parallel to each other.The content may be contrasting,but the form of which any righteousness takes is just that: righteousness. As the Witnesses,Mormons,or Catholics,etc, have changed their perception over time, so has the "infallibility" of science. Theories and hypothesis come and go, and while many remain perpetually unrefuted, a number of them have been underminded by other more "substanital" evidence. The solid "assuredness" of certain ideas within science can't be proven either, since they're still only theories, until there is enough evidence. For example,there is the theory of evolution. One would have to literally sit there, for millions of years, taking in data, in order to objectively prove that evolution, is in fact, taking place. But we obviously cannot do this until one is able to live that long to show and prove any results. Oddly enough,Dawrin himself used the word "Creator" (yes, with a capital "c")in the same context as his theory of evolution. Science isn't the only discipline to be further revised. Who hasn't heard of revisionst history, and so on? If you read about Russel's Paradox,we find that even mathematics isn't as "infallibe" as we think it to be,specifically on the subject of classess and members of classes. I think it's safe to say that although there are certain undeniable "truths" that one can see, there is also a constant undermining of ideas that we once held as "infallible."