Posts by crownboy

13

RICO Laws now apply in Sex Abuse Cases!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

about a year ago, i visited with a local attorney in spearheading an effort to get the jw pedophile issue into the courts.

one of my questions to the attorney was whether rico laws could be applied, similarly as they have been applied to other groups who conduct activity across state lines in the usa.. brief history: rico laws were initially established to help the federal government fight organized crime across state lines, and to expand the scope of their powers so that they could penetrate links between a local crime operations, and the crime boss organizations ... often such links are well hidden, and undocumented, governed by oral directives.

here is the link to the rico laws:.

crownboy

Thank you, Amazing for posting this topic.

I have to agree with MadApostate on the likelyhood of RICO cases working against the society. There was a news segment in my area (NYC) talking about certain members of the Catholic church in a NJ area suing under RICO laws to recover damages brought on as a result of a child molestation cover up. It was brought out how difficult it is to get churches under the RICO laws, and the piece even said that the people in that particuar suit probably had a very poor shot at winning due to the way the judge was asking questions.

I think that churches, Catholics or JW's, should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when they break the rules, especially when a child's welfare is at stake. I hope that states will eventually start using RICO laws to bring them down, and if not, amend the laws or create new ones to ensure churches don't get away with molestation.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

39

100 Baptism Questions

by badboy in

jw
friends

iunderstand from a recent watchtower/awake that elders ask 100 questions before u are allowed to b baptized?.

what questions?

crownboy

Amazing said:

However, a little unknown secret: Many Elders will bring an extra copy of the book along so the candidate can follow along with the portions of paragraphs that are read, and as the questions are answered, if they have some difficulty, they can look at the book to refresh their memory. Nazi-type Elders will not do this, and they will even ask many or all of the 'optional' questions.

You're not supposed to have the book? The elders I did my questions with specifically told me to bring my book along! It seems like a lot of elders disregard "theocratic arrangement" . However, I probably would have answered all the questions correctly anyway. As you said, if you've attended meetings for a certain number of years, you get the teachings down in your memory pretty good. It's not rocket science or anything.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

60

Losing my Religion......

by flower in

well at 29 years old, after a lifelong relationship/belief in/association with a higher power i called god, here i am very close to taking an athiestic or agnostic approach to the rest of my life.

it really hit me the other day although my doubts have been there but i just have been forcing myself to ignore them because i was afraid to give up that religious part of me because its all that i have ever been and i was afraid of the unknown.

but i realized after getting through another one of those weeks from hell that it makes no difference how much i pray or how much i believe.

crownboy

(((flower)))

I can relate to what you are going through. For me it wasn't so much the question of "does God care?" (though you bring up some really valid points), but it had more to do with the bible itself being a fallible book with mistakes. I figured that an all powerful God would not create a holy book so full of errors. (Yes, I did read Christain apologeic books. However, I found too many stupid arguments, misrepresenations of truth, and mainly too many after the fact explanations that only might be true, and only if you have a good imagination.)

I probably had some doubts about God since my "faithful" JW days. I could never understand why he had to kill as many people as he did in the Old Testament. Sure, I knew the reasons given, but it seemed to me that he used unneccessary force; he could have tried to reform the people, look how many chances he gave Isreal! I also couldn't understand why he'd kill over 6 billon people (if you're a mainsream Christain about 5 billion people) for not worshipping him a certain way. Isn't "being good" regardless of how you express your spirituality, really important?

While I've pretty much rejected the Judeo-Christain God, I think it's at least possible that a higher power might exist, though I don't "worship" anything due to the fact I see no evidence of a need for it(or that that being even exist). As Gopher pointed out, if a God does exist somewhere, he probably has left us to fend for ourselves here.

You should probably do some more study on the topic of God and spirituality, so that you may be able to really know your beliefs. I did so and came to my conclusions, and you've probably done a lot of searching too ( I remember posting on an earlier, very long thread about God that you started).

Double Edge said:

This board is full of people who once had a strong belief in a higher power and once that belief system was shaken up everything falls apart. Just because the "picture" you had of GOD wasn't correct doesn't mean He doesn't exist, or that He doesn't care.

I think it's because many of us have a sense of skeptisism after we leave. We realized how fooled we were about the Watchtower, and we feel more free to question God altogether. Some of us don't like what we find, some find leaving the JW's increased their faith in God (e.g. Ray Franz). Most theist don't have the "crisis of conscience" most x-JW's have, most don't find themselves having to question many of the beliefs they hold dear, which usually causes them to question even more things. Intially, after finding out "the truth about the truth", I found myself to be a stronger Christain than before, resolving myself to serve God correctly from then on. However, the doubts just wouldn't leave my mind, and I knew I had to address the doubts about God the same way I did my JW doubts. I wasn't "angry" or "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", I just felt I had to be honest with myself intellectually. Today, I feel better for it.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

64

"Dubs For Dummies"

by Farkel in

dear brothers and sisters in the worldwide brotherhood of jehovahs witnessestm,.

there has been much public interest in our beliefs lately, so we have prepared a very brief summary of our core beliefs in a new pamphlet which you may offer to interested persons.

hopefully, this pamphlet will generate enough interest with honest-hearted people and enable you to start many new bible studies.

crownboy

Farkel ,

So funny, but sadly so true. I love your post, keep making them!

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

41

How often did you comment at meetings?

by LDH in

jw
friends

i have a theory and i'd like to put it to the test here.. i would be willing to bet that the posters who post a great deal probably commented more than the average publisher at the meetings.. i know it's true in my case.. on simon's forum we have the whole range of 'publishers-' from those that comment a lot ---down to those that are just there.

the lurkers.. what about you?.

lisa

crownboy

I am one of those "comment on the last paragraph of the Watchtower" type. I don't know what percentage of my comments are on the last paragraph, but I venture to conjecture that it's pretty high. I almost never comment on Thursday night, it has probably been years since I last did so.

However, I always tried to give good talks (now I really don't care). Aside from my first talk, I don't think I ever prepared a talk with more than a day or two before the event, but it was always well delivered (no bad grammar), and I pretty much never stumbled over big words (didn't need to hear the "bible tapes", either), and usually "well researched" (quote a publication). I remember once delivering a talk number 2 after learning about it in the middle of the instruction talk!. The brother had forgotten to give me the slip, and for some odd reason I didn't check the board. I think I was 14 at the time. I ended up giving a pretty darn good talk, and afterward, people asked me how long it took me to prepare it! I told a couple of people I prepared it during the instruction talk and highlights, but they thought I was joking. I was also lucky it was a second school talk, otherwise I might have just told the school overseer I was unprepared. How many Witnesses actually spend tons of time preparing talks anyway?

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

52

WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1, 20...

by stevieb1 in

the following is taken from questions from readers p.31 of the my 1, 2002 watchtower.

it is the wt response to the question: "when john saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in jehovah's temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?".

quote.

crownboy

deddaisy,

I believe that the Watchtower amazinly attributes Rev. 19:1 to the annointed despite the fact it says "great crowd". I think they arrived at it through circular reasoning ("the annionted go to heaven, and the great crowd stays on earth, since Rev. 19:1 talks about people being in heaven, it must be the annionted"). I could be wrong, but I think that's it. However, the scripture talking about the great crowd "standing before the throne of God" does refer to the "great crowd", but standing before God's throne means mearly being in His presence, which according to the Society means it happens on earth.

JW Ben said:

What is all the fuss about?
Most JWs wouldnt care if the OS were in this court yard or that court yard.
Just where the OS stand in realation to the temple, if it be in a part of the temple that was not part of the original or not, makes no difference to a JW as to the out come of Salvation. They still beleive that the OS will be here on earth and the LF will go to heaven.
What is wrong with people expanding their knowledge. It hapens all the time espectially in medicen. I am glad that doctors continue to advance. Sometimed they get it wrong and sometimes they get it right. The overal effect is a learning from mistakes and improving.

True, but in the interim did that doctor claim to speak for God and oppose all who disagreed with his old methods? Did he punish those who suggested he was wrong, especially when they found pretty good evidence that he was indeed in error? The comparison is not the same.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

28

YOU ARE ALL SORRY LOSERS

by JWs_suck in

you are all sorry losers you should be pounding the streets and forcing people to take your stupid watchtowers but instead you are sitting on your fat azzes complainging and crying about how you were treated!!

if you had kissed azz a little more in the kingdom halls you wouldn't be here!

!

crownboy

If I'd have known how good Pierced Angel's homepage was, I'd have clicked on it sooner!

An example:

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

8

What is the Special talk on?????????

by JT in

jw
friends

for those of you who still swing by the hall from time to time.

what is the special talk on this year?.

thanks

crownboy

JT,
You can check out the outline here:
. http://watchtower.observer.org/

It seems like I know more information about the JW's as an "apostate" than when I was "faithful" .

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

30

Alternatives to JWs

by Xander in

jw
friends

since there are new people coming to this board on fairly regular basis with questions about the jw religion, i thought i'd pose this topic.. many, upon leaving the organization, don't really know where to turn for guidance.

"look to yourself" doesn't really cut it when you've been told how to think your whole life.. many choose atheism, which is fine.

however, for those still looking for a religion, here is a site that lists many of the worlds major religious movements.

crownboy

Interesting test.
My results:

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (92%)
3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (89%)
4. Liberal Quakers (87%)
5. Neo-Pagan (64%)
6. Nontheist (64%)
7. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (61%)
8. Theravada Buddhism (60%)
9. BahА'М Faith (56%)
10. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (56%)
11. Reform Judaism (47%)
12. New Age (47%)
13. New Thought (47%)
14. Taoism (45%)
15. Jehovah's Witness (40%)
16. Scientology (39%)
17. Sikhism (39%)
18. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (37%)
19. Mahayana Buddhism (36%)
20. Orthodox Quaker (33%)
21. Jainism (19%)
22. Hinduism (14%)
23. Eastern Orthodox (13%)
24. Islam (13%)
25. Orthodox Judaism (13%)
26. Roman Catholic (13%)
27. Seventh Day Adventist (12%)

Guess I'm more pagan than JW now. What would my parents think?

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!

6

big plans

by forgetmenot in

jw
friends

notice: i think these are questions for christians.... okay, dub's have big plans for the future: preaching, armageddon, paradise on earth, perfect people.... does anyone here believe that whatever is right now, is exactly the way god wants it?

.

and if jesus is going to come in the future and solve all of our problems with peace on earth, what was the point of him coming the first time?

crownboy

forgetmenot, great points.

If I'm not mistaken, according to the Society, another reason God allows all this stuff to happen (besides the infamous "bet with the Devil"), is so that in "the New World", when God automatically destroys people who disobey him, we won't be able to say that we didn't know how bad not living under God's rulership is, and that rejecting God would clearly show that we reject "God's sovereignty" inspite of first hand knowledge, so we are truly culpable for our actions.

Of course, it's quite possible that God could have taught us the lesson of disobedience in a more humane way. He could have just held Adam & Eve as an eternal example to the rest of perfect human kind (he would allow the two to have perfect children), as what would be the result of disobeying God. Everytime a perfect human thougt of sinning, they would think of what happened to Adam& Eve. If some other person decided to sin, they too would be added to the list of idiots, and would further reinforce the resolve of perfect humans not to sin. I'm sure few people would rebel under such circumstances, and it would not require as much death and suffering as God's current model does.

Go therefore and baptize the people in the name of the father and of the son... what the hell, we just need to bring up the yearbook numbers!