WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1, 20...

by stevieb1 52 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • stevieb1
    stevieb1

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The following is taken from Questions from Readers p.31 of the My 1, 2002 Watchtower. It is the WT response to the question: "When John saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in Jehovah's temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?"
    QUOTE

    "It is reasonable to say that the great crod worships Jehovah in one of the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple, specifically the one that corresponds with the outer coutyard of Solomon's temple.

    "In times past, it has been said that the great crowd is in a spiritual equivalent r antitype, of the Court of the Gentiles that existed in Jesus' day. However, further research has evealed at least five resons why this is not so. First, not all the features of Herod's temple have an antitype in Jehovah's great spiritual temple. For example, Herod's temple had a Court of the Women and a Court of Israel. Both men and women could enter the Court of Women, but only men were allowed into the Court of Israel. In the earthly courtyards of Jehovah's great spiritual temple, men and women are not separated in their worship. (Galatians 3:28,29) Hence, there is no equivalent of the Court of the Women and the Court of Israel in the spiitual temple.

    "Second, there was no Court of the Gentiles in the divinely provided archtectural plans of Solomon's temple or Ezekiel's visionary temple; now was there one in the temple rebuilt by Zerubbabel. Hence, there is no reason to suggest that a Court of the Gentiles needs to play a part in Jehovah's great spiritual temple arrangement for worship, especially when the following is considered.

    "Third, the Court of the Gentiles was built by the Edomite King Herod to glorify himself and to curry favour with Rome. Herod set about renovating Zerubbabel's temple perhaps in 18 or 17 BCE. The Anchor Bible Dictonary explains: "The classical tastes of the imperial power to the West [Rome]......mandated a temple larger than those of comparable eastern cities." However, the dimensions of the temple proper were already establshed. The dictionary explains: "While the Temple itself would have to have the same dimensions as its predecessors [Solomon's and Zerubbabel's], the Temple Mount was not restricted in its potential size." Hence, Herod expnded the temple area by adding on what in modern times has been called the Court of the Gentiles. Why would a construction with such a background have an antitype in Jehovah's spiritual temple arrangement?

    Fourth, almost anyone - he blind, the lame, and uncircumcised Gentiles, could enter the Court of the Gentiles (Matthew 21:14, 15) True, the Court served a purpose for many uncircumcised Gentiles who wished to make offerings to God. And it was there that Jesus sometimes addressed the crowds andtwice expelled the money changers and merchants, saying that they had dishonored the house of his Father. (Matthew 21:12,13; John 2:14-16) Still, the Jewish Encyclopedia says: "This outer court was, strictly speaking, not a part of the Temple. Its soil was not sacred, and it might be entered by any one."

    Fifth, th Greek word (hi.e.ron') translated "temple" that is used with reference to the Court of the Gentiles "refers to the entire complex, rather than specifically to the Temple bulding itself," say A Handbook on the Gospel of Matthew, by Barclay M Newman and Philip C. Stine. In contrast, the Greek word (naos') translated "temple" in John's vision of the great crowd is more specific. In the context of the Jerusalem temple, it usually refers to the Holy of Holies, the temple building, or the temple precincts. It is sometime rendered "sanctuary." - Matthew 27:5, 51; Luke 1:9, 21; John 2:20.

    Members of the great crowd exercise faith in Jesus'ransom sacrifice. They are spiritually clean, hving "washed their robe and made them white in th blood of the Lamb." Hence, they are declared righteous with a view to becoming friends of God and of surviving the great tribulation. (James 2:23, 25) In many ways, they are like proselytes in Israel who submitted to the Law covenant and worshipped along with the Israelites.

    "Of course, these proselytes did not serve in the inner courtyard, where the priests performed their duties. And members of the great crowd are not in the inner courtyard of Jehovah's great spiritual temple, which courtyard represents the condition of perfect, righteous human sonship of the members of Jehovah's "holy priesthood" while they are on earth. (1 Peter 2:5) But as the heavenly elder said to John, the great crowd really is in the temple, not outside the temple area in a kind of spiritual Court of the Gentiles. What a privilege that is! And how it highlights the need for ach one to maintain spiritual and moral purity at all times!

    END QUOTE

    Your thoughts on this "new light" would be appreciated.

  • Xander
    Xander

    I'm terribly sorry, but my dubspeak->English translator must be broken.

    In other words, does anyone know what the hell they are on about now?

    I did like this one:

    In the earthly courtyards of Jehovah's great spiritual temple, men and women are not separated in their worship

    Oh, no, of COURSE not. There are no special meetings of congregation overseers women can't attend. Nope. And the GB? The women on it attend the same meetings the men do, right? Oh, wait, THERE ARE NO WOMEN GB MEMBERS!

    A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
    --George Santayana
  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    Funny, but I recently posted something on another DB in jest, which could "fit" with the "new light" here.

    Could the WTBTS be planning to announce that there is a second class slated to go to heaven that would be subordinate to the "anointed"?

    There are an awful lot of people claiming to have a heavenly hope these days. Since this is supposed to be a "calling" from Jehovah Himself, even though it's not popular within the congregations, it's difficult to state outright that these people are not who they claim to be.

    If they go with this, however, I'm wondering how they'll "new light" the earthly class.

  • RR
    RR

    These guys are so backwards.

    The whole tabernacle arrangement has four parts.

    The Camp, The Court, The Holy and The Most Holy.

    The Camp is where the Nation of Israel camped. They could very well represent the world of mankind. The only way to the Father was through Jesus, Jesus stated he was the door. Thus we had to believe in Jesus to be justified. That's where the court comes in. Entering through the door of the court, represented accepting Jesus and being justified. Then there was the Holy, which only the priest were allowed to enter, this would represent those who have been spirit-begotten. Only the High Priest could enter the Most Holy, that would be in the presence of God Himself. Thus this would represent heavenly glory.

    In my opinion, the great company is a heavenly class.

  • hybridous
    hybridous

    Hmmm, if the WTS is getting ready to amend this particular part of the 'truth', then they may go '2-for-1', so-to-speak.

    What I mean is, if they're gonna say that the members of the great crowd may actually entertain a hope for heaven, they may change the official understanding of 144,000 from a literal number to a figurative one.

    This could help them to deal with the (claiming to be) annointed 'excess' that exists. Without just refuting them, the WTS will allow for their heavenly hope and keep them 2nd. class. That way, the R&F can avoid the inevitable discomfort when some 20 year old looney-toon starts telling everyone at the KH he/she's a special one. The R&F can pretend to buy the crazy's claim, since now WT theology allows for an unknown number of annointed.

    I really could imagine this happening, it seems like just another innocent 'change of understanding' which the R&F would swallow without too much trouble, while they ignore the huge implications of such a chamge.

    Sounds crazy, yes? No? What do you think?

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    I'm with Xander in that my Hova-Later seems to be broken... The article rambled on and on, but didn't seem to actually say anything.

    Did I miss something? Can someone translate the JW-Speak?

    "As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
    Believe in yourself, not mythology.
    <x ><

  • heathen
    heathen

    SHAZAAAAAAAAAMMMM

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    The article made perfect sense to anyone who is a conoisseur of la Dud speak. The Great crowd are both IN the temple and NOT in the temple both at the same time.
    Actually, I couldnt understand it either, but thats okay. Neither did the guy who wrote it!
    I do gather, from this, that the Great crowd have been moved FURTHER OUT from the holy of holies. Correct me if Im wrong.

    I just LOVE the way the WT pulls extreme literalism out of the drawer, when it suits them. "Women were not allowed in the mumbo jumbo courtyard", hence the Great crowd cant be in THAT courtyard.
    Hahaha.
    Lol WT.
    I think the objective of this may be a sussing out of the response
    from the hungry, ever eager banqueters at the table of truth.
    Maybe they ARE thinking of creating another tier in the hierachy of the kingdom to get rid of the annointed/1935 (or whenever) problem.

    First bit of doctrine stuff Ive read in months thats piqued my interest! On ya Stevie!

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Most interesting news. Thanks for the post stevieb1.

    I noted the phrase "declared righteous" as now applying to the Great Crowd. Also they are now to be considered "really in the temple". Very interesting, indeed!

    There seems to be nothing left except saying that the only hope is a heavenly hope - and isn't that what the so-called 'false' Christians have been saying all along?

    Cheers,
    Ozzie

    "If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."

    - Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Ozzie,

    I noted the phrase "declared righteous" as now applying to the Great Crowd. Also they are now to be considered "really in the temple". Very interesting, indeed!

    Yes, I noticed this also. Another theological vacillation as these people try to understand the very basics of Biblical doctrine.

    I believe that they should be "declared incompetent" at this stage.

    Best regards - HS

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