I posted before I saw your reply rem. Nice comments as usual.
crownboy
JoinedPosts by crownboy
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21
There's just something about theists that say they were once atheists....
by logansrun inyou know the type, the ones that say, "oh yes.
i tried to not believe in god..." or "when i left the jws i became an atheist, but since i found jesus..." simply put, i don't believe them.
i don't think they ever really stopped believing in god.
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There's just something about theists that say they were once atheists....
by logansrun inyou know the type, the ones that say, "oh yes.
i tried to not believe in god..." or "when i left the jws i became an atheist, but since i found jesus..." simply put, i don't believe them.
i don't think they ever really stopped believing in god.
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crownboy
Nice post OrbitingTheSun.
My guess would be that it would be fairly unlikely for an atheist to be converted to Christanity, but perhaps to some other god belief. (I consider myself agnostic too, BTW). I couldn't read the site that you linked in your post, but I'm guessing that it isn't a link trying to prove Anselm's ontological arguement?
logansrun, valid points there as well. Not being aware of the bible's flaws can lead you to be taken, I suppose, but at the very least, hopefully it wouldn't be because of something as innane as Josh McDowell's books.
Because Lewis lost a debate one time (‘one jarring bump in his intellectual road’) about his book Miracles, we come to the conclusion that he has a ‘sad grasp of logic’?
I don’t think that conclusion is based on good critical thinking… or logic.
I think rem mentioned that the lack of logic was found in many of his apologetic works. When I was going through my stage of de-conversion from Christainty, and wanted to find reasons to still accept it, among many books that were reccommended to me was Lewis' Mere Christanity. This is probably Lewis' most famous and widely acclaimed apologist work, and quite frankly, the logic in that book was quite lacking. If his other books are even remotely close to that one, then his grasp of logic would indeed be quite bad.
Number two, regarding atheist converting:
I think it is ridiculous to say that an atheist can’t come to change his or her mind about what they believe and become a theist… and then perhaps convert to a particular religion, like Christianity. Give me a break it happens all the time. It just pisses off some current atheists.
Well, I don't know about (re)conversions happening "all the time", especially given the fact that the non religious population doubled during the last decade in the US. However, since I've already stated it's perfectly possible for that to happen, I have no problem with your sentiments, really. I doubt atheists are "pissed off" by such conversions, but perhaps dissappointed if the decision was made due to extremely emotional or irrational methods.
Well, I think if most thought about or researched enough, certain things like a literal belief in the bible or quran (or other religious books written by men) would be rejected due to those books many unfactual, or unverifiable, or silly, or evil claims (in the case of the bible, all of these are true ). Belief in some sort of creator should be grounded in facts, not "faith".Number three, ‘and another thing!’:
It’s is as if some atheist think that if everyone THOUGHT hard enough about what they believe, everyone would be atheist. I find that very presumptuous.
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There's just something about theists that say they were once atheists....
by logansrun inyou know the type, the ones that say, "oh yes.
i tried to not believe in god..." or "when i left the jws i became an atheist, but since i found jesus..." simply put, i don't believe them.
i don't think they ever really stopped believing in god.
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crownboy
I largely agree with the comments here, but I suppose it is wholly possible to be "converted" from atheism to Christanity or some other form of theism.
The folks who were "angry at god" obviously were not atheist, since you can't be angry at something you don't believe exist . And I get pissed at people who go with the "you don't want to be accountable to god" arguement as well. Why the hell would I put my eternal well-being at stake like that if I believed in all the Christain stuff? It's not like most atheist become crazy party animals who have sex 50 times a day with people they aren't married to while simultaneously eating the hearts of babies and robbing liquor stores while holding up a burning crucifix (or torture stake ). But I guess some people have to maintain delusions.
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Do you believe in God now?
by Ron1968 in.
this question has probably been asked before, but since i am a newbie, i wouldn't know.. anyway, i would like to ask if you believe in god or a higher power since becoming an ex-jw?.
ron
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crownboy
I'm agnostic to the "god concept", but I definitely don't believe in the bible's version of god.
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Harry Potter Mania
by Shakita inmy daughter and i just love the harry potter books.
we are eagerly awaiting the 5th book in the series which should be delivered to my home on saturday.
anyone here pre-order the book?.
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crownboy
Well, I'm one of those people who has not read any of the Harry Potter books, nor watched any of the movies, but I was at a Barnes and Noble bookstore last night at 7:00 PM, and there were already people lined up outside to get tickets for the midnight release, which were not to be given out for at least another 2 hours. Geez, would it have killed people to go get the book today when the lines are all long gone ?
Every person who has read the series has told me that the books are great, both adults and kids alike. Up to yesterday I ignored them, but at the aforementioned B&N they were selling the 1st four books in the series at a 20% discount (plus an extra 10% for me since I'm a Readers Advantage card holder), so I basically said "why not?", and spent $25 on the 4 books, this despite the fact that I don't normally read children's books, as well as the fact that I have no less than 10 books that I still have unread that I still plan to read ahead of the four I just bought. Oh well, J.K. Rowling will have to wait untill after Joyce Carol Oates.
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72 Virgins for Martyrs !!! Here are the facts.
by Amazing ini have worked with many islamic men.
most all were from iran (persia), syria, jordan, palestine, and egypt.
all were either sunni or shiite.
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crownboy
Yeru, exactly what part of the bible supports a western style democracy? Rome wasn't Christain, right ?
So are you saying that all those non- Christain based societies have no laws against stealing, murder etc., and therefore secular Western countries derived it from the only source of such morality, the bible? No? So other societies have derived the same basic rules without looking at the bible? Yes? So they developed them because they are an obvious basis for a regular functioning society and have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity? And they also banned slavery even despite the bibles approval of it?
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72 Virgins for Martyrs !!! Here are the facts.
by Amazing ini have worked with many islamic men.
most all were from iran (persia), syria, jordan, palestine, and egypt.
all were either sunni or shiite.
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crownboy
Yeppers, and China and the USSR were SHINING examples of the absence of religious influence on government.
How exactly was lack of religion the specific reason for the atrocities that occured in these places? Why didn't belief in god stop the Nazi's from killing all those Jews? Why didn't belief in god stop American Christains from endorsing slavery? Why did god inspire old St. Paul to be OK with slavery to begin with? The way I see it, religion and belief in god has very little influence on morality. The country with the highest percentage of Christains in the world is Rwanda, and some of the most peaceful places to live in the world is the non god fearing nations of Scandinavia. The reasons for the way people act have nothing to do with whether or not they believe some invisible guy is checking them out 24/7, especially since people who believe in him almost always find a way to show that what they are doing is sanctioned by their invisible guy. It's a bit more complicated than that.
As far as the original intent of the thread, good points. It gets very tedious sometimes to discuss Islamic atrocities, because everytime you do so you have to acknowledge that other religions have their skeletons, or that certain practices that are still allowable and wide spread by Islam were used by others, as if these points were not already known. Untill Islamic countries and Muslims stop burying their heads in the sand (and untill certain western liberals stop trying to protect Islam from valid critisicm) and face up to the fact that their religion needs reform, things will continue to be bad for them. And pointing to moderate western Muslims doesn't help either; they're not the guys we worry about.
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'Jesus box' exposed as fake
by Rado Vleugel in'jesus box' exposed as fake
a stone box touted as the oldest archaeological evidence of jesus is, in fact, a well-crafted fake, israeli archaeological experts say.
the box, an object known as an ossuary, was said to have contained the bones of jesus' brother james.
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crownboy
Well, KGB, I suppose we can't have any non Catholic christains examine the box either since they would be biased towards believing in the Jesus story, right?
So since every archaeologist either believes in the Jesus story or doesn't, we can't trust either group to examine the box, I suppose? So we can't use this as any sort of proof either way, right?
Well, I suspected it was a fake from the beginning, but if it was determined that there was an extremely high probability that the box was genuine, I wouldn't try to bring up the religious credentials of the people examining it, just their scientific methods, and if that was determined to be proper, then good for them. It seems that in this case they did a good job.
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In your experience, do JW's show hospitality?
by Gopher inand i don't just mean "formal" hospitality that is scheduled on the announcement board for visiting speakers and travelling overseers.. i mean real, from the heart, love of strangers (xenophilia in greek).
xenophobia (fear of strangers) is the antithesis of hospitality.. when you visited other halls where nobody knew you (and you weren't the guest speaker or the travelling overseer), did people go out of their way to make you feel welcome?
or did they mutter to themselves, "i wonder who the stranger is?
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crownboy
At least here in the US, I find the Witnesses down south are more hospitable than up here in NYC, but as others have said, it has more to do with the culture of the place than with JW doctrine per se.
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Noam Chomsky: What's Happening?
by Abaddon ininteresting interview with noam chomsky.. i would find it infinately preferable if people would read the article (if they are interested) and address issues in the article.
whilst people are perfectly free to say;.
not fair!
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crownboy
Pork Chop, Chomsky is most definitely not a Marxist. I suggest that you actually read some of his stuff before you make such comments (i.e.: he's written against Marxism many times). It's quite easy to simply dismiss him as a "left wing nut" because he doesn't believe that Ronald Reagan was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but as has already been brought out, he'll attack the left and the right with equal tanacity (which is probably the main reason I respect him, because I most certainly don't agree with many things he says. Most of the right wing shills would find a way to make G. W. Bush look like god even if he were caught on tape driving a stake through a new born babies heart, while the same folks would pick on the silliest things a Democrat would do). Now, I have indeed read some "left wing nuts" a couple of times, but Chomsky definitely isn't one. He's very intelligent and insightful, and tries to make you think instead of appealing to emotion and retoric.
(BTW, Chomsky is a libertarian socialist.)
Nice thread, Abaddon.