"This reminds me of a stance I took in an essay. There's a popular school of thought in Literary studies that certain authors, like Rudyard Kipling, are racist.
Just as 'sexist' loses it's meaning the further back in time you go, as there was no 'correct' attitude to compare it with amongst the tide of misogyny, so to does 'racist'. A book written at a time when most people (even those who thought of black people in a positive light) would be called racist by modern standards will tend to show some of those unreconstructed attitudes. "
Clever but sorry this arguement though has some truths doesn't really cut it. Simply ask any Black slave "you know it's 1750 everybody expects you to be a slave so do your bit for white society and don't worry be happy. Jolly good show"
Slave, "Yes sir massa I is a happy slave I knows yo ain't racialist its 1750"
"Also, books and films do not always express the attitude of the author, but may present reportage or fictionalisation of actual events and attitudes."
I know this abaddon. But reality is that too many hollywood films portray too many times the the groups I've mentioned in a bad light, whilst stereotyping their own in good light. That's just a fact. If you want to use that as ammunition to call me a anti-semetic it up to you.
"This showed convincingly that Rudyard may, compared to today, have had some racist attitudes, but that he mostly created characters like those in the world he saw around him; reportage is not racism.
It depends what you do with it. What spin you put on it.
Lets talk about the recent history which still affects these stereotyped people. So we pick racist tendencies from the wider society I then happen to be a film producer and reflect all these in the films I choose to produce. I'll produce a string of negative stereotyping films to report on the state of our society. What's left is white society being reminded whose "good" and whose "bad".
"
In which case Geobels could be justified and accepted as the norm. Right?
Wrong. Portrayal of Goebels is not justification or acceptence of his actions as a norm."
That was my point. It's wrong
A predominantly WHITE society representing corrupt WHITE cops is not much of an issue.
"You miss my point. If (as is so) black people are more likely than white to be a/ poor, and b/ have a criminal record, then a portrayal of areas with large black populations as being poor and criminal is simply reflecting society."
"Like I said. Again. It's the frequency that is the problem."
"The fact that black people are more still likely than white to be a/ poor, and b/ have a criminal record is a sign that despite efforts, in practise society in the USA is still racist even if far fewer individuals are racist than thirty years ago."
And Hollywood knows exactly what to do with this racism.
"I think addressing the issues that prevents true parity in society no matter what race one is is FAR more important than assembling a list of movies someone can assert are racist. "
Well meaning people addressing the issue of drugs is not helped by Hollywood's glamorisation of it. Racism likewise.
"I mean look;
NO, YOU missed the point, a black man in jail AGAAAAAAAAAAAAIN. Give it up Funky
Okay, you going to tell me black people are NOT disproportionately represented in American prisons? Well, you can if you want, but you'd be wrong. It is a fact. Rather than saying a thing about this awful fact, you talk about movies!!!!"
I know it's a fact but "a black man in jail AGAAAAAAAAAAAAIN
"Damage? There's MORE damage from the social ills that are portrayed than in the protrayal of social ills. And the existnece of social ills is where the real racism lies."
Correct so let's not give the predominantly white society any more excuses to find these groups unsavoury.
I grew up believing that Native Americans were the savages where as in fact whites were the savages.
I'd figured that one out by age seven (33 years ago). About the same age I realised that Germans were now not the enemy. Kids drawing ignorant conclusions is not an indication that which they draw their conclusions from is racist.
So, are you telling me Europeans are stupider than animals? OH MY GOD!!! "
Abaddon what are you talking about? I was merely saying that animals had picked up on the ensuing disaster and scarpered saving themselves.
"Well they certainly stuck to that
I do hope you realise that was humour."
Yes I did!
"Poor rizzo!
Now that's OFFENSIVE.
If you make anti-semetic remarks out of ignorance it's bad enough... congratulations, you've gone from a possibly over-enthusiastic critic of the portrayal of black people in Hollywood movies to sympathising with someone Zeig Heiling. Not a very logical standpoint..."
Abaddon you got the wrong end of the stick. "Poor rizzo" was written in a sacrcastic manner.
Spectrum
JoinedPosts by Spectrum
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97
Does the King Kong movie have racist overtones?
by enlightenedcynic inhey everybody,.
was having a discussion with a co-worker about the new kk movie.
he asked if i saw it already.
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Spectrum
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84
WTBS article prove 587/586 BC fall of Babylon
by crazies inlabashi-marduk: (9 months) succeeded by nabonidus
(insight volume 1 p.453 chronology; watchtower 1965 january 1 p.29)
evil-merodach: 560 bce562 bce (2 years)
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Spectrum
Scholar,
You didn't answer points 1 and 2.
If you can please do. -
97
Does the King Kong movie have racist overtones?
by enlightenedcynic inhey everybody,.
was having a discussion with a co-worker about the new kk movie.
he asked if i saw it already.
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Spectrum
" So I'll wish you a Merry Christmas and hope that some day you'll find a movie that portrays black people in a manner you deem acceptable."
I'm sure there are but there are far too many of the others.
I think if you put your brain back in that skull of yours you'ed quickly realise who the has the racist agenda. Merry Christmas -
97
Does the King Kong movie have racist overtones?
by enlightenedcynic inhey everybody,.
was having a discussion with a co-worker about the new kk movie.
he asked if i saw it already.
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Spectrum
Cuckoo,
Regarding Training Day I was commenting on the stereotyping of Latinos.
Like I said I don't have a problem which non whites being given hardnut violent roles, my issue is that Hollywood over does it to the point where it becomes stereotypical racist. And racist is what that place is.
My Argument is silly you say. Tell that to my black friends, educated upstanding members of white society. Ask them how they feel everytime a big Hollywood movie shows and black person in bad light especially when being watched by the white society within which they must live.
I think you need to check your motives for not wanting to see what is glaringly obvious. -
97
Does the King Kong movie have racist overtones?
by enlightenedcynic inhey everybody,.
was having a discussion with a co-worker about the new kk movie.
he asked if i saw it already.
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Spectrum
"These are your examples?! They were really the best you could come up with?"
You want me to list them all do you? You'ed be shocked if anything.
"Independence day - Will smith the muscle, Jeff Goldblum (Jewish Character) the brain that saved the world.
Will Smith is less suited to playing a brainy scientist than Jeff Goldblum, "
What hollywood racist decided that. Why couldn't a latino be the saviour of the world. Oh silly me Latinos are just dopey drugs barrons. Of course it's racist.
"nothing to do with race." LOL. Dream on Funky
" I could similarly claim that this film stereotypes white people as nerdy and awkward. " If you saw my first post I said look and the percentages and a racist pattern is immediately obvious.
"(It doesn't of course, but it's as relevant as your claim.) What about films like Lethal Weapon or Die Hard With A Vengeance where a white guy is the muscle and a black guy is the brain?"
Yeah a black guy with a big gun.
"Bad Boys - gun toting Black guys with very bad language Die Hard - gun toting White guys with very bad language"
Look at the percentage of black character rolls. That's the issue. Of course they are going to make films with white guys holding guns.
"LA Confidential - Blacks raping a white girl white man kills the bad black guys. That's what you got out of that film?"
That's what the put in that film. A film about bad tempered and corrupt cops padded with black rapists of white women. Open your eyes Funky.
"Do you object to all films that at any point show any black person committing any sort of crime?"
No but the frequency with which it is done stereotypes black, latino and Native Americans.
"English Patient - I was flabbergasted you could cut the racism overtones with a knife. If you have seen it guess which part I'm talking about. No idea. Please enlighten me."
A Nazi interrogator brings in a cute looking young nurse into to interrogation room, and say's "this is a muslim girl" and the next thing you see is the muslim girl chopping the thumbs off William Defoe.
Absolutely loaded with racism.
"And hundreds of others that I can't remember now. That's convenient. Although, your standards are so low you can pick any film with a black person in it (obviously any film without a black person is racist by omission) and put a negative spin on it. "
No it's not convenient. The more I could have remembered the more the point would have been made.
The Shawshank Redemption: Morgan Freeman is content to spend 50 years in jail while the clever white man finds a way out.
NO, YOU missed the point, a black man in jail AGAAAAAAAAAAAAIN. Give it up Funky
"Guess Who's Coming to Dinner: Sidney Poitier has to be incredibly successful and charming (acting white?) to win over his white in-laws. "
In The Last Supper who was the most psychotic. Of course you guessed it the black guy.
"I can only guess why someone would perceive every portrayal of someone of their "race" as intended to be representative of that "race" and then try to see the most negative aspects."
That's right you've guessed it Hollywood is racist.
"You missed the point. It's not racist to portray things as they are, even if the way things are is due to racism."
In which case Geobels could be justified and accepted as the norm. Right?
I've watched quite a few latin and italian made movies and non had anything to do with drugs lords and mafia I imagine a few do. These are the very societies hollywood wishes to represent. It's not just about what goes on in these societies as you contend but it's the racist spin that Hollywood wishes to apply.
"That's utter nonsense. South American and Italian directors are making films about their own countries and culture. Obviously they will not all be drug or gangster movies. Hollywood makes films mostly about the USA. If they want to make a Mafia film, obviously the mafiosi will be Italian or Italian-American. "
It's all about percentages Funky
"Africans need a stupid white man to show them how to survive in their own natural environment. Ridiculous. What films show anything like that?"
Tarzan. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what idiot came up with that idea. You mentioned whose going to believe Amish jihad, yet they believe of a stupid white man well versed in jungle affairs, which incidentally requires generation of accummulated knowledge to survive in. LOLOLOLOL
"Now I very rarely go to the cinema and rarely watch a film all the way through.
That figures. You seem to have missed the point of most of the ones you have seen."
No they are boring and racist.
"Poor rizzo! He was a blatant anti-Semite. Why do you feel sorry for him?"
I don't, but in terms of Hollywood they have shown themselves to be anti-Gentile. -
97
Does the King Kong movie have racist overtones?
by enlightenedcynic inhey everybody,.
was having a discussion with a co-worker about the new kk movie.
he asked if i saw it already.
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Spectrum
Abaddon,
Independence day - Will smith the muscle, Jeff Goldblum (Jewish Character) the brain that saved the world.
Bad Boys - gun toting Black guys with very bad language
LA Confidential - Blacks raping a white girl white man kills the bad black guys.
Star Chamber -A Black person I think was raping a girl or doing something nasty.
English Patient - I was flabbergasted you could cut the racism overtones with a knife. If you have seen it guess which part I'm talking about.
And hundreds of others that I can't remember now.
" Before you complain about how unrepresentative the portrayal of the living conditions of an average black American is in movies, do you know what the real-life difference is between average white living conditions and average black living conditions? Please quote references."
I know there is a lot of poverty in the US but this thread is about racist portrayals.
" No, not to the extent black people were in the past, nor will it ever, as attitudes have moved on. There might be sterotyping, but then crack gangs run by a group of Harvard graduates who pimp Ivy League hookers would not be particulary believeable."
Have you seen Denzel's film Training Day.
"A society where the criminals tend to be disproportionately of a certain race or races is where the racism is. The movies portraying that society are not nessarily racist by representing that society."
This is where I disagree it is the intention behind deciding to make that movie that way. And even if some have no permeditated intention the damage that is done is great and unforgivable. I have many black friends and none of them are represented by racist hollywood's usual spin on black people, of course they are agrieved.
I grew up believing that Native Americans were the savages where as in fact whites were the savages.
" And if we made a movie about drug lords in 1870, they would be British - read up on the Opium War. At the moment drug lords ARE often South American."
I've watched quite a few latin and italian made movies and non had anything to do with drugs lords and mafia I imagine a few do. These are the very societies hollywood wishes to represent. It's not just about what goes on in these societies as you contend but it's the racist spin that Hollywood wishes to apply.
Africans need a stupid white man to show them how to survive in their own natural environment. Ridiculous.
"Hell, you watch really bad movies. The ones set in Africa with Macaws and Cockatoos sitting in the trees... "
Now I very rarely go to the cinema and rarely watch a film all the way through.
" I've seen two programs in a week which describe how two seperate indigenous populations (Thai Sea Gypsies and Andaman Islanders) escaped the tsunami last year without loss of life as they were so primative they remembered the stories about a big wave coming if the sea went back too far and ran for it."
I heard that very few mammals were caught out by the disaster. Their instincts told them to run for the lives.
"Yeah, well at the 3rd International Artistic Convention in 1908, it was decided for the next hundred years Jews would be given all the good parts as they were bored with Fagin, Shylock, and all the other fun fun roles that had been written for them in the past millenia. Get over it, the agreement lapses in 2008. I think gypsies are up for the next hundred years of good parts, or is it the gays (remember only gay Jews could already get good parts)?"
Well they certainly stuck to that.
" The question about rizzo stems from a nazi apologist by that name who was utterly obsessed with Jews and how they controlled the world and how unfair every one was to poor Adolf, who only killed a few by accident. He benefitted us with his 'wisdom' and got his bigotted ass banned from here."
Poor rizzo!
" The 'virtue of the world' comment sounded a bit... odd..."
There is nothing odd about it. It's a fact of hollywood. -
84
WTBS article prove 587/586 BC fall of Babylon
by crazies inlabashi-marduk: (9 months) succeeded by nabonidus
(insight volume 1 p.453 chronology; watchtower 1965 january 1 p.29)
evil-merodach: 560 bce562 bce (2 years)
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Spectrum
Scholar,
I have very little knowledge on this so I can't put up a good arguement for or against. It's obvious that there is a tug-of-war on this issue between JW and secularist and the slippery fish is the rope, although each side will claim they have the fish.
"as it is simple and easy to explain but this cannot be said for the chronologies of Christendom where there is much disputation over the year for the Fall of Jerusalem in either 586 or 587."
simple for a layman or a seasoned historian?
Every book I've read talks about 586/7 never 607. Are you sure christendom disputes its own version?
1. If Jehovah doesn't use pagan kings for chronologies then why does he use dragons and scary violent creatures to scare the living daylights out of his subjects?
2. Why are signs of the end all about death and destructions? Why couldn't it be fluffy angels coming down to show imperfect people the path to righteousness. Killing millions upon millions of people with earthquakes and wars and disease just to give us a sign does not endear us to Jehovah your God. Signs can take many forms Jehovah seems to like all out mayhem.
Think about that Scholar, for your own sake. -
97
Does the King Kong movie have racist overtones?
by enlightenedcynic inhey everybody,.
was having a discussion with a co-worker about the new kk movie.
he asked if i saw it already.
-
-
Spectrum
"JJRizo? is that you?"
No. why? -
84
WTBS article prove 587/586 BC fall of Babylon
by crazies inlabashi-marduk: (9 months) succeeded by nabonidus
(insight volume 1 p.453 chronology; watchtower 1965 january 1 p.29)
evil-merodach: 560 bce562 bce (2 years)
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Spectrum
Scholar,
Why is this super important date for JWs and God for that matter such a slippery fish? This date should be crystal clear to all righteous people of all intelligences but instead it takes celebrated scholars and theologians to work it out or not some argue. Missing this missing that, he served so long, no he didn't yes he did........It shouldn't be an IQ test. Why does god fix important dates according to pagan kings anyway if I've understood it right? -
23
Intelligent Design and Real World Nastiness
by TD inthe concept of intelligent design in every form that ive run across contains as a basic premise, the benevolence of the "intelligence" behind the design.
please dont misunderstand; i'm not faulting proponents of id for this.
any other id scenario involving a supreme being is frankly too depressing to contemplate.
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Spectrum
TD,
Apologies. I got confused because you spoke of ID then said
"However the task of reconciling the idea of a munificent Designer with the reality of life is is not without a few hurdles."
so i linked munificent to ID as a hurdle to ID but forgot that you were addressing a religious ID.