Posts by Spectrum

20

Another stupid blunder by the WTBTS.

by gumby in

many times the wtbts are pretty good at changing poilicy without looking to obvious to the r&f as being sneaky and having a motive behind their changes.

normally they can even justify their change as scriptural to the unwary.

however, when they changed the baptismal questions, it was more obvious that there was "motive" behind the change and some exited the group because of the change.. this thread is for those who have never heard of the change before and were not aware of the current stance the wtbts has taken regarding baptism.

Spectrum

"and also understands that his dedication and baptism identify him as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization can he acceptably undergo water immersion."
That sounds more like you are joining a club than accepting the salvation that Christ offers for those who believe in him as the saviour. Maybe they put that bit in to remind people that they are actually under contract to abide by WTBS rules however unsavoury they might be, including shunning ones family.
There is nothing about Christ. Or did you just not paste it?

20

Disfellowshipping - Pros and Cons

by Spectrum in

when i was a jw i remember believing that disfellowshipping was jws great and distinguishing feature.

great, because it got rid of the people that didn't take our righteous path seriously and wanted the temporary trappings of the world including all the sinful stuff and brought them back into our puritanical line if they genuinely repented.

the congregation therefore maintained a high christain standard.

Spectrum

Country Girl,

I wasn't really talking about Ozzie per se I was talking about all of us including Ozzie.
I take your point that if you are raised in the Org then you have no choice and the contract is via proxy of your parents. Parents decide a lot of things for us when we are young, this is not unique. I was forced to do a lot of things when I was young but going to the meetings was not one of them so I don't know how it feels for you. When I did go I went voluntarily and I was still bored out of my skull so I wouldn't volunteer for another 2 months.
What surprises me is that my sister's children seem to enjoy it. That defies belief considering how lazy they are. Maybe they escape doing school homework!
The main point for this thread is really for those that join later in life with a lucid mind then decide it is not for them. Their personality doesn't suit this rigid regime. They prefer to smoke or fornicate or whatever else they get up to that breaks their rules.
At the time I prefered not to have these people as part of the Org as it brought the standard right down and made a mockery of the claim that we were God's path for salvation. Although I had nothing against these people in my heart I thought that they had lost their salvation and were now worldly. In this sense I was in total agreement with disfellowshipping.
I think that if you get kicked out for blatant misconduct, everyone more or less knows the rules, then there should be no hard feelings over the decision.

"You need to get a grip. Would you hold those of us that were FORCED into this organization through no desire of our own to the same standard? Why should those of us that were FORCED be FORCED to maintain a certain standard after we find out that what we were forced INTO was a big farce?"

Good point, and the answer is don't get yourself into a contract that doesn't suit you. If a bank gave you a piece of paper that in the small print said your soul belongs to God but your ar*se belongs to us would you sign, be worked to the bone for no salary, then complain about your woeful situation they put you in. Nobody in the right mind would do that.

A good question is, how many people don't know what they are getting themselves into?
I think that JWs have gone too far with dealing with disfellowsipped people. They are treated like lepers this is plain wrong. I find this really unchristain which in Christ's eyes it is unacceptable. The JWs have to watch out lest they find themselves dangling over gehena.

58

The Unkindest Cut: Hateful Words from JWs that Show Their True Colours

by Scully in

jw
friends

i decided to start this topic when ozziepost shared the experience of a bethel representative telling him and mrs. ozzie "and don't forget, we've got your children!

it's important for us to hear these experiences and to share them with each other.

it helps us tear down the mistaken beliefs that the incidents that happen to us are not isolated ones, but are in fact par for the course when one parts ways with the jws and wts.

Spectrum

One JW was spreading rumours that my brother was lusting after our blood sister, she had told my best friend who immediately came and told me. Before telling me he asked me to promise not to say anything to this person. So I promised. As it dawned on me what he was saying I went ballistic. I asked my friend to release me from the promise but he wouldn't. If she was standing their infront of me at that moment I would have beaten her to a pulp. It could have ruined my whole family's reputation.
She came up with this story because my brother had apostasised purely because he realised that they were not God's people. If this had got to my sisters ears it would have really damaged her well being. Thankfully whoever heard kept it to themselves because it never reached my sister's ears. I think if I remember rightly my friend warned her to cut it out so there was damage.

I met this miserable sh*t-for-brains JW a few years after I had left the Org and was told by her that I was going to die at armageddon as was her apostate son. Her son by the way couldn't stand her. She really f*ck him up. The sad thing is that early on I thought that he was the crazy one but it was quite the opposite.
I apologise for my bad language.

20

Disfellowshipping - Pros and Cons

by Spectrum in

when i was a jw i remember believing that disfellowshipping was jws great and distinguishing feature.

great, because it got rid of the people that didn't take our righteous path seriously and wanted the temporary trappings of the world including all the sinful stuff and brought them back into our puritanical line if they genuinely repented.

the congregation therefore maintained a high christain standard.

Spectrum

Confession,
Thanks for that analysis I can now see where JWs get there shunning laws from. I think you have explained it clearly. From your analysis which I agree with they have gone too far. You also mention that it is a little unclear as to how exactly to view dissenters because some of the passages are stronger in condemnation than others. Obviously the JWs went for the full on slap them into submission interpretation.

Ozzie,
I think if you want to maintain a certain standard your going to have to go along with the rules of that organisation. You entered into that contract because you were enticed by the high standard that you witnessed on entering. And it wasn't even a bog standard contract, it was a baptism. To then say that, I don't agree with your standards, they are too this or too that, I find disingenuous.

However having said that, the contract must be fair. What they expect of you they must first apply to themselves. Any judgement must be done in the spirit of Christ. How would Jesus have handled this situation rather than how would OT Jehovah.
We can't consider Christ a pushover either and let people behave unchristian like with impunity otherwise JWs might aswell merge with the Catholics.

I would have had a serious problem if I was told not to talk to friends. In fact I think that I had already made my mind up not to follow this rule at least for friends. I remember one idiotic meddling JW say to me, "did you know your friend was disfellowshipped", I said "yes, i was talking to him yesterday", then she went into a song and a dance about how i should not talk to him. I can't remember my reaction well but I think I just laughed it off.

Barry,
I don't know what to say regarding your experience. I know in my congregations you would have got a couple of warnings then got kicked out. It seems you were an anomaly! The thing is what you did didn't make you a bad person but a bad JW, uncomforist therefore didn't belong in that club. So there should be no hard feelings. Am i right?

For me this thread is an exercise to find out whose overdoing what. Some of the JW shenanigans are really bad but some of the counter accusation might not merit serious thought.

20

Disfellowshipping - Pros and Cons

by Spectrum in

when i was a jw i remember believing that disfellowshipping was jws great and distinguishing feature.

great, because it got rid of the people that didn't take our righteous path seriously and wanted the temporary trappings of the world including all the sinful stuff and brought them back into our puritanical line if they genuinely repented.

the congregation therefore maintained a high christain standard.

Spectrum

Ozzie
I'm too tired now to give you a well thought out answer. I'll be back on the job in a few hours. It won't be a yeah it's all bad.

20

Disfellowshipping - Pros and Cons

by Spectrum in

when i was a jw i remember believing that disfellowshipping was jws great and distinguishing feature.

great, because it got rid of the people that didn't take our righteous path seriously and wanted the temporary trappings of the world including all the sinful stuff and brought them back into our puritanical line if they genuinely repented.

the congregation therefore maintained a high christain standard.

Spectrum

When I was a JW I remember believing that disfellowshipping was JWs great and distinguishing feature.
Great, because it got rid of the people that didn't take our righteous path seriously and wanted the temporary trappings of the world including all the sinful stuff and brought them back into our puritanical line if they genuinely repented. The congregation therefore maintained a high christain standard.
Distinguishing, because no other religion banished their followers for unchristian conduct. You could do everything and anything and still be a catholic or orthodox christian worthy in the eyes of the priest.

Disfellowsipping, for me, gave a lot of trust and credibility to this organisation and convinced me that it was the closest to God's truth compared to the other religions that had a blase attitude to severe misconduct. It was like they didn't take the bible seriously, 20 hale Marys and your back on tract for paradise.

77

why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?

by evergreen in

hi everyone, i have often wondered why so many religions view jesus as being god.

every website i look up claiming to be the christian faith strongly believe that this is the case.. i mean the actual trinity doctrine didnt come about untill about the 3rd or 4th century and was originally the catholic church that brought it about.

although jehovahs witnesses seem to push jesus into the background a lot which is something that has always troubled me.

Spectrum

Little Toe,

"I'm afraid you show a woefully inadequate knowledge of Christendom."
That's true.

"I suspect you got it from the JWs, as did most of us."
Unfortunately that's true too.

"Not all Christian denominations are Paedo-baptist."
I take it your not talking about those that wish to convert. Maybe Baptists wait.

"Many Christian denominations evangelise."
How? The ones I know expect you to turn up to their church. If that's evangelising then JWs are doing a better job. Yeah they teach wrong doctrines but who doesn't.

" My personal conviction is that a personal relationship with Christ is what makes a Christian"
This is the best form of Christianity. Would you preach Gods word or each to his own?

77

why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?

by evergreen in

hi everyone, i have often wondered why so many religions view jesus as being god.

every website i look up claiming to be the christian faith strongly believe that this is the case.. i mean the actual trinity doctrine didnt come about untill about the 3rd or 4th century and was originally the catholic church that brought it about.

although jehovahs witnesses seem to push jesus into the background a lot which is something that has always troubled me.

Spectrum

Gumby,

"Christendom has made the witnesses look like pee-ons when it comes to missionaries in these countries. Unless the country and people can further Brooklyns pocketbooks, their missionaries do not recieve the backing christendom gives it's missionaries. At list christendoms missinaries are supported by other christians, not a meager allowance along with your OWN funding like the dubs.."

That's interesting. Can't argue with you because I don't have enough info. I knew there was the odd missionary sites here and there but I thought that the help they gave was secular like mother Teresa - Schools, books hospitals etc. Christ always spoke about feeding the soul.

"not a meager allowance along with your OWN funding like the dubs.."
What allowance did the apostles have? Isn't the vatican the richest state in the world with it's own bank?

25

Conspiracy freaks, here`s one for you!

by Hellrider in

http://profindsearch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 .

the picture is from the watchtower of february 15, 1983. in case i`m not succesful in putting the picture in here, here`s a page you can watch it... .

http://profindsearch.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15.

Spectrum

Belial,

What do you think of the so called subliminal pictures in JW literature? Is it a real phenomenon or coincidence?

77

why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?

by evergreen in

hi everyone, i have often wondered why so many religions view jesus as being god.

every website i look up claiming to be the christian faith strongly believe that this is the case.. i mean the actual trinity doctrine didnt come about untill about the 3rd or 4th century and was originally the catholic church that brought it about.

although jehovahs witnesses seem to push jesus into the background a lot which is something that has always troubled me.

Spectrum

Flying,
"I still maintain that if Jesus was God, he would have made it very clear. "
I still think he would have got clobbered if he did!! Nobody was protecting him.

"Jesus never once said he was God."
Don't know if he said it in a round about way but he was careful of the blaspheme laws.