The WTS will fight this any way they can as long as they can. They will lead most dub’s to blame Upton for this public display (something about the love of the greater number will cool off), instead of the WT for not caring for their own. Besides $79k won’t go far when you get the boot with nothing but the close on your back.
Posts by JackC
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210Real 'BIG' news WTS sued biggie worker compensation
by DannyHaszard injehovah's loses comp case
church may be forced to pay millions
by jess wisloski.
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53
My "un"association letter
by AuldSoul in.
the name was suggested by someone who posts here, since it is not really a disassociation letter.
here, for your criticism pleasure, is my "un"association letter..
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JackC
Auld Soul, In 2005 my husband and I watched one of the "pillar" couples in our congregation fall apart. No big deal, right? Happens all the time, right? Except, this couple had been assigned to oversee and help us overcome a problem in our marriage only years earlier... Herein lies the problem; elder and pioneer (previously) wife, daughter and son in Bethel service, very, very openly opinionated family, ALWAYS voicing opinions on who should be or shouldn't be doing what. Oooops, the pioneer dumps the elder - leaving an ugly mess for the congregation. To make a long (admittedly all too familiar story within the Org) short - elder begins attaching himself to us. I think his wife put it to him this way; 'I'd rather die at Armageddon than live forever with you'...ouch! Well, enough said, we became surrounded by more and more crazy. This propelled prayers in directions that had never been sent before. Pretty soon I was just praying for the truth. The prayers were so strong, the heartache would wake us (not the break up of the marriage of these former friends but rather the lunacy that followed - just to clarify) drove us to start asking questions and we found answers immediately. I should also mention that we were praised for our attendance, how we raised our children, how informed they were, well spoken, well behaved, well prepared, our CO commented on the diction of our 7 year old, we definitely had presence in our Hall. We have come full circle. Life is so beautiful, there is so much to see and be. I too was raised a Witness. My father still serves in a neighboring congregation. My mother pioneered most of my childhood. I was baptized at the age of 13. I never went to college even though I graduated a year early from High School, my gifts were never viewed as gifts to be used outside of the organization, certainly never in this world. I am responding to you because of your desire to let the record speak for itself. My friend, I applaud you. I just finished my first semester in College. After all of the heartfelt prayers (the only reason why I reiterate that to you is due to the fact that we were taught from youth that those who were on the outside of the congregation might as well be praying to themselves - that and I have the overwhelming need repeat things, for emphasis) It was amazing how my History and Geology class worked hand in hand to reveal the answers to questions that the society would never or would only scratch the surface on. I often left my history class with knots in my stomach, in conflict with my inner voice, my "bible" trained conscience and I took more notes and read more books and attached myself to my professor pressing for more resources. All the answers I needed were in my history class. The sad part is that most of us will all suffer the same fate. In the end, history repeats itself. Just the other day I'm afraid I "lost my cool" when an elder who just recently moved into our congregation called, I guess he needed to take a stab at us. When we implored him to read our file he was very reluctant to even speak about it. I told him that I was amazed at how he could just call us up cold and provide answers to all our questions without even knowing what they were (especially since he denied even knowing we had a file). I'm not sure but I think they call that, a miracle. Knowledge is power. Amen. I loved all your letters. You do a great job of expressing yourself and I look forward to reading more posts from you.
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25
UN Coverup... Help?
by sandy ini would like to write to the wt and ask them about their former un status.
does anybody out there have a letter that they wrote and that i could kind of use as an outline or even copy, if you don't mind?
you can post it here or pm me or even email me at [email protected].
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JackC
We have already experienced attempts to nail us down on that question, however due to years of ‘education’ on how to side step and deflect we have yet to answer. Soon, when done playing with them, we will DA and be done with it. I do genuinely feel sorry for our PO, he has lost a ‘strong, front row family’ and has even conceded (not in front of others) that our questions and concerns are valid. He’s in a bad position, when we officially go, a lot of heads will turn and he will be left with a lot of fallout.
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25
UN Coverup... Help?
by sandy ini would like to write to the wt and ask them about their former un status.
does anybody out there have a letter that they wrote and that i could kind of use as an outline or even copy, if you don't mind?
you can post it here or pm me or even email me at [email protected].
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JackC
My wife and I sent in the below letter a while back. The response came rather quickly, 3-4 weeks, and was what we expected, 'a man at the UN said we needed to become...' along with the finger being pointed at us for deceiving ourselves. They also sited some older WT articles to 'prove their point'. I would share the response letter with all of you but we were not even allowed to hold it, it was read to us. We have drafted a second letter that is a bit more pointed and accusatory in nature. Not that it will help, other than we can hope to give somebody a headache. We will post as soon as a response is given, I am currently trying to get a copy of the response from the first.
We would like to start this letter by affirming our faith in the bible and the promises that Jehovah holds out for us through the sacrifice of his son, Christ Jesus. However recent events and developments within this organization have left us disheartened with our view of the society. We therefore beg of you to please provide the answers that the body of elders in our congregation (xxxxx, New York) and our Circuit Overseer (RxxxxAxxxxx) could not.
We were given a copy a newspaper article from ‘The Guardian’, dated 10/08/01 (Attached). This article led us to inquire with the United Nations directly for confirmation, as well as the CBS news bureau in Manhattan, again confirmation was given that the ‘Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was associated with the United Nations Department of Public Information from 1992 to 2001.’
It was only after this first round of inquires that we quietly approached our Presiding Overseer (xxxxxxxxx). He was taken aback by what we asked and said that he did not question what we found but his gut reaction was one of disbelief, ‘I could not imagine the society ever doing that, didn’t they read the Revelation book?” This too was our initial reaction when we received confirmation of the Guardian’s article.
We both have been raised in the truth and have been baptized more than ten years each. Basic guidelines that have been given repeatedly from the platform and through the pages of the publications, that the slave class has provided, over the years included this simple fact: ‘Don’t even give the appearance of wrong doing, for the very appearance can bring reproach on Jehovah’s name.’ Did we misunderstand this? Does it only apply to publishers, or to all of Jehovah’s people regardless of position?
We both, on separate occasions, called Bethel to make inquiry on this matter. We received two very different responses. First, my wife was transferred form department to department to department until being connected with a brother that reluctantly told her it was the writing department; he also refused to give his name stating that they like to remain anonymous. Being that we are all brothers, this seemed very odd not to ever share names, do we not tell people in the field ministry of the importance of names especially when communicating one on one? The condescending tone in this brother’s voice escalated to disdain and approached anger as he realized that my wife could not in good conscience accept his ‘canned’ answer.
This ‘canned’ answer stated that ‘a man at the United Nations said we need to become an NGO to continue having access to the library facility at the UN.’ It is interesting to note that until the terrorist attack in New York on 9/11 the only thing needed to gain access was a valid passport. In addition to this we have discovered though various sources that the UN makes available all its publications and documents in various depositories around the world, including the NYC library system. So why would access to the grounds of the United Nations as an NGO be needed?
After all, through our investigation, gaining NGO status involves more than signing a library card. It requires complete audited financial documents, signatures from three members of the board of directors, letters of reference from other organizations, and the agreement to disseminate information on behalf of the United Nations (Attached). We find that sharing this information and assisting the wild beast in any measure very disturbing.
We have been told that the reason for withdrawing from UN was that language was added that could no longer be adhered to with a clean Christian conscience. This is wrong, the UN charter for NGO’s has remained unchanged since 1968 when it was fist founded (Attached). We have found no evidence anywhere to support this claim, if you have evidence please forward it to us.
My wife then asked the brother why and how we aligned ourselves with the wild beast of Revelation? The brother responded by asking her if she pays taxes, and that the government is the two-horned beast. Therefore we ourselves are aligning ourselves with the two-horned beast. Her response to this was simple, ‘Jesus told us to pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar.” This brother’s response though short and simple spoke volumes, he hung up. Is this the love that Jesus displayed when his disciples were having trouble understanding something, is hanging up after accusing a sister of being aligned with the two-horned beast loving?
A few days later I called Bethel and was transferred to the service desk at Patterson, the brother there offered no information and directed me to submit all questions on this matter in letterform. So here is our inquiry as directed.
Further discussions with our local elders resolved only the fact that they have no information at all regarding this. In fact they seem to have no desire to obtain the truth in this matter, but would rather we spearhead this effort, are not the elders to look after the flock and assist in clarifying issues? After insisting they contact the Circuit Overseer it came back that he too had heard nothing of this association.
The question we need to ask is this; if this is no big deal, as the elders and CO would lead us to believe, then why has no information been distilled down the ranks to some level? Instead we are required to address this issue directly with the society, where is the organization in that? Is it hoped that this will just go away? We are often reminded that the covering over of a sin is worse that the sin itself. Is this not a cover-up? How are we as publishers to respond to those we meet in the field when they inquire of this association? I realize that mistakes are made, everyday, we are imperfect, but when the actions of one affect millions should not the millions be at least told that its been corrected.
From our viewpoint, as publishers, if a letter was sent to the congregations when this association with the UN was ended it would have given the appearance of no harm no foul, but this side stepping and dodging leads to conclusion we don’t want. Please brothers help us in resolving this matter, please inform us with facts where and why we may be mistaken.
Christian Love, -
13
Need help with this ..
by JackC inhey everyone.
im 35, have been a witness for 30, baptized at 19, married at 22 and now have 3 kids.
my wife and i are leaving and are considering all the options.
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JackC
The best idea I've heard was to post letters to the friends and family you really care about before you leave or are announced. Don't go in to detail on why you are leaving, simply say you have concerns and if they want to know, they can contact you. I am a strong believer in giving information only when it's wanted.
Amen to that, we followed the bouncing ball ourselves and would never expect anyone to follow us. JW's are so used to being spoon fed every bit of information that it would defeat the whole purpose of setting someone free if we provided more that a starting point to them. This point is a must in any letter to anyone.
Thanks,
J
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13
Need help with this ..
by JackC inhey everyone.
im 35, have been a witness for 30, baptized at 19, married at 22 and now have 3 kids.
my wife and i are leaving and are considering all the options.
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JackC
Thanks for the link, I'll be checking that out tonight. I have already registered to vote and have planned a burning this spring of unneeded bound volumes, unless anyone here wants them. I don't know, I think I would always be 'watching my back' if I fade away. If I go to a store it would be nice for anyone with a problem to feel compelled to avoid me, if that makes sense.
Thanks,
J
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13
Need help with this ..
by JackC inhey everyone.
im 35, have been a witness for 30, baptized at 19, married at 22 and now have 3 kids.
my wife and i are leaving and are considering all the options.
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JackC
See my last post to metatron for a little history.
We have too trained our young ones well, but the are smart, smarter than most adults. My oldest (9) understands the hypocrisy with the UN thing. So going by this we feel making a stand is needed to show them that we are secure behind our principles and that it is love of righteousness that is driving this.
Thanks,
J
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13
Need help with this ..
by JackC inhey everyone.
im 35, have been a witness for 30, baptized at 19, married at 22 and now have 3 kids.
my wife and i are leaving and are considering all the options.
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JackC
Well, how do I put this. My family is all in the 'truth', but I really would count it a blessing if they wouldn't talk to us, not that they do now. They are one of the most dysfunctional families I've ever seen, no love-loss there. My wife's family: parents and siblings all in, dad's family never in and are extremely supportive (taking us in for Xmas, presents and all) I would have to say that Dad and Mom would be the hardest to get over, maybe. Her oldest brother already shuns us for not going to the KH and he lives 1500 miles away, in fact he came into town to make it a point to shun us. Her other sibs, one follows dad everywhere the other is secretly supportive.
I guess, cut and dry we can live without any of them. But for closure we need to do something even if it is just screaming in the wind.
J
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Need help with this ..
by JackC inhey everyone.
im 35, have been a witness for 30, baptized at 19, married at 22 and now have 3 kids.
my wife and i are leaving and are considering all the options.
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JackC
Hey everyone. Let me first tell you a little about myself. I’m 35, have been ‘a witness’ for 30, baptized at 19, married at 22 and now have 3 kids. My wife and I are leaving and are considering all the options. So I ask this, how did you do it, letter to elders, CO, Society, other? What was in it, main points etc. What were you trying for DF, DA, fade-away and why? Did I miss anything?
We have already sent a letter to the Society asking about the UN/DPI thing, of course no answers. But we did get the finger pointed at us, apparently we have been deceiving ourselves. That’s right we’re not supposed to look at facts and draw our own conclusions, shame, shame, shame. But the elders backed off the apostate talk when we pointed out that we have only talked to them. So we are leaning toward a second letter with a very accusatory theme and let the poor locals have to df us. Make them work.
Anyway thanks for all your input.
J
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53
My "un"association letter
by AuldSoul in.
the name was suggested by someone who posts here, since it is not really a disassociation letter.
here, for your criticism pleasure, is my "un"association letter..
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JackC
My wife and I are drafting our letter as we speak. Still not sure if DF or DA is a better fit for us. I thank you for your posting your letter as well as all our friends comments. We hope to shock and awe some people with ours. Not that it will help, we just want out.
J