Good point perfect1. I know I had no idea who they were when I was in. I guess in an information age, they feel they can't completey keep these guys anonymous. But it is probably still true that most dubs have no idea who they are or what qualifications they may have for the job.
Posts by alanv
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184A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars ini mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .
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cedars.
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184
A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars ini mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .
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cedars.
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alanv
Question : Explain to the board in detail why you think Cedars is paranoid
as to the things he point out in the pics
1 The picture is about the earthly part of the organisation. Nothing to do with the heavenly part. Do many of you really think that Jesus is about to be booted out, because he is not in the picture?
2 The comfy chairs. As I have already stated chair quality changes wherever you live in the world. I already said in Denmark they had a 3 piece suite in the library, while we in UK had hard uncomfortable chairs. It did not mean they were any better than us did it? If the gov body had been shown sitting on old hard chairs, the immediate response would be, 'no way do they sit on old chairs'
3 Sitting on part of Africa. The yearly report spells out exactly what is happening in the world. They don't need subtle pictures to add to that report.
4 Cedars I know you are not looking for supporters, I was trying to tell you that you usually write well written blogs. They are very interesting and informative. It’s just that this time I do not share your view.
5 The hierarchical nature of the religion. As I have already stated, this picture is nothing new. It has been the same for decades. Publishers bow down to elders, elders bow down to circuit overseers. (By the way there is no district overseer there, do you think he has been done away with. And yet the circuit overseer has to bow to him.) To continue, circuit overseers bow down to branch elders and the branch bows down to governing body. That is how it was and that is how it is. Nothing has changed. No need for subtle pictures to add to that report.
6 jwfacts mentions the fact that there are no women leaders. This is true, and a good point to make, but again it is nothing new. JW women all know their position in the org. They agree to it at their baptism. That is the structure the org has. If women don’t like it, they are free to not join up. Of course that is a terrible way to be going on in the 21 st century, but that is how this organisation works. All witnesses know that, they know about the steps from the governing body to the publisher.
If all of this was shown to someone studying, then yes it is very useful imfo. But the converted already know and accept this. The society are purely pushing the point home, just like they do in every article they have ever written.
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184
A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars ini mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .
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cedars.
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alanv
Cedars I normally am a very strong supporter of yours. You have written some excellent blogs. However you even seen surprised that the governing body members look like themselves. Who do you think they should look like Donald Duck?
The hierarchy thing is nothing new. This is how the structure has looked for decades. Why are you surprised at it. I'm not saying it is right, but nothing here has changed. This picture will not change the average witness view of the organisation. It is already how they view it. All it does is reemphasise that point. It is part of their mind control. They want everyone to see where they should be in the org. Nothing to do with, comfy chairs, no Jesus in picture or sitting on Africa.
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184
A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars ini mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .
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cedars.
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alanv
OK If you feel that Jesus is about to be booted out of the heavenly organisation then that is your choice. And I will be the first to apologise if that happens. But in truth it aint gonna happen. The whole idea of the picture is to show how the earthly part is made up, nothing to do with the heavenly part. I think blondie got it right, saying the bit that is wrong is the fact that the first 4 rows had people sitting there. lol. That is about as wrong as this illustratioin gets.
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184
A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars ini mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .
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cedars.
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alanv
Cedars of course you can respond. It is your thread. I am giving my view. But trust me, you would get nowhere at all showing those points to a witness.
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184
A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars ini mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .
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cedars.
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alanv
No Eden I don't. And certainly it would never, ever be important to the average witness. They except Jesus as the second most important being in the universe. That has not and will not change. Many on here are reading much to much into this illustration. I despise the organisation and what it says and does, but if you were to make any of the points that Cedars mentioned at the beginning to a witness you would just be totally laughed at. Not one witness would say, woh, I never thought of that picture like that. Lets get back to real sins of the organistion and not nit pic what sort of chairs they sit on lol
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184
A picture so outrageous, it deserves its own thread...
by cedars ini mean no disrespect to sd-7 or his fine thread on which this picture has already featured, but i think it is just so ridiculous that it deserves a thread all of its own.. lurkers and apologists, this is how your precious organization views itself.... behold the madness.... .
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cedars.
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alanv
Cedars, you are starting to get really paronoid. The picture is about the EARTHLY part of Jehovah's Organisation. It does not matter what the heavenly part of the picture shows. It is not about that. And deciding that the gov body have better chairs is frankly stupid. In some lands the elders chairs are cheap and chearful in other lands they would be top quality. It varies obviously from country to country. In the 1970s I visited a kingdom Hall in Denmark. They had an area with a 3 piece suite, totally unheard of in UK.
Also do you really think the society put a picture of Africa on purpose, after just publishing the service report about which countries are doing well and those that are not. You are giving them far to much credit. I can guarrantee that not 1 JW in a 1000 would even look at the map or care about it. It simply shows the JW structure of things. End of.
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Do we have an update on how many NEWBIES have joined in 2012 ?
by smiddy ini think with every year their are more and more newbies that identify with this site , would you like to say " hi ", if you have joined in the last 12 months ?.
does anybody have a graph of the numbers of newbies who have joined in say the last 5 years ?.
i think that would be interesting.
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alanv
Anyone who is interested could click on members above and scroll through that section. It actually tells you when that member joined.
I agree would be interesting, but would be a huge job preparing a graph of all those members. Good luck to anyone who wants to do it.
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2012 report analysis - percentage Witnesses to world population
by cedars inyet another graph i'm afraid!.
this one you should find interesting.
it shows the average number of witnesses as a percentage of the global population is increasing, although at nowhere near the rate it was in the 90s.
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alanv
Thanks Cedars. Percentages only go up very slowly when dealing with very big numbers. The JWs are very, very tiny compared to the world population so you would expect a bigger rise. Bit like reading in Yearbook that a small country has had 20% rise. Sounds good until you realize that actually there were only 100 witnesses there in the first place, so total now is 120. No big deal.
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Any "friends" of Bethelites get a 2013 Yearbook yet?
by Gayle ini know the yearbook isn't on jw.org yet?
but in the past, some have gotten a yearbook gift sent to them by now?
things seem 'quiet' about the 2012 worldwide service report too..
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alanv
Atlantis just got back to me and said there is no sign of the complete report yet. He reminded me there are a few figures in the December 2012 Kingdom Ministry.