Posts by Morocco

39

It is that simple!!

by Rooster in

john 20:30-31

30 to be sure, jesus performed many other signs also before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll.

31 but these have been written down that you may believe that jesus is the christ the son of god, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Yeah, you know I just thought of something. Its probably pretty obvious but I am not a scholar and quite the lurker here. I can't help notice that the Watchtower uses phrases like "you may have life by means of his name", and other parts talking about the life Jesus gives, to indicate that it is the heavenly life, if you are anointed, or it is the earthly paradisaic life if you are part of the great crowd. But I suddenly got the real meaning, here it is talking about gaining SPIRITUAL life, not regular life. Jesus was always talking about becoming spiritually alive, John 5: 24-25 has recorded what Jesus said as a good example:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

How can an alive person be dead yet hear his word and become alive? Unless its talking about a spiritual life? Now that I am out of the WT I can finally see the real meaning to a lot of the scriptures. These dead who “hear the voice” and live are spiritually dead people, not physically dead people. The WT does not like this idea of spiritual life because it robs themselves of the power to provide it.

85

A Bad experience with JW is a permit for SIN?

by El Mariachi in

i've been reading some sad experinces here... i dont see anyone talking about the bible... only how misserables the organization made their lives... ok ...so because of that...now i have permission to smoke marijuana and commit fornication?

this sounds pretty much like aa... and everybody having his/her personal "superior power" who is giving them the permit to do whatever they want...

i've been df for 4 years now and also dont agree with some jw teachings... why instead of blaming the wt for everything dont we look for the real truth in the bible and make things right.

Morocco

Hey El Mariachi you aren't listening to Jehovah.

Matthew 7: 1&2 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged,
and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Think about it

31

Got any quick 1914 / 607 points?

by drew sagan in

tomarrow i'm meeting with a jw friend who is connected to what's going on with these elders that came over our house and everything else.

i can't get into details as to how it works out, but this is the important part.

this guy (and elder) can be a quite reasonable person.

Morocco

Yeah, you're right drew, it does represent his rulership and sovereignty. I think I would like some fresh pepper with my foot. However, my point still remains. If you read Daniel 4 nowhere in it does it say this tree represents God in anyway. The WT slips that idea in there but has no way to back it up except their saying so. I would really like to see the scriptural evidence that says the tree ALSO represents God's sovereignty as well as Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom. Also in verses 28-37 the bible gives the record of the dream being fulfilled! All they are doing is taking something that has already happened and making it yet to happen. Plus any speculation of this end time is not only scripturally unsound, but the knowledge of it was forbidden even to the people closest to Jesus.

Acts 1:6-7 So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.”

29

RAY FRANZ vs WT PSYCHOPATHS (news)

by DannyHaszard in

jehovah's witnesses wish you'll answer the door

the grand rapids press, mi - 1 hour ago .

... he holds the answer to all your problems.

Morocco

Jehovah Says: Look guys I'm not forcing you to go out in service, but think about why its called SERVICE. I mean, I can't help but notice that you haven't been hitting the numbers lately, so we need to remember how easy it is to fall away from doing what is right. This is your choise and you should remember that but Jesus said to go door to door. Even tho its your choise the bible says if youre a watchtower guard and you don't warn people of the coming danger that you could be BLOODGUILTY of their death because you had a LIFESAVING message... your choise tho.

31

Got any quick 1914 / 607 points?

by drew sagan in

tomarrow i'm meeting with a jw friend who is connected to what's going on with these elders that came over our house and everything else.

i can't get into details as to how it works out, but this is the important part.

this guy (and elder) can be a quite reasonable person.

Morocco

In no way do I claim to be an expert here, but I am actually going through something that is similar to your situation drew sagan. I just wanted to point out that in the book of Daniel Nebuchadnezzar had a dream about a big tree being cut down and bound with copper bands. The WT puts a lot of stock in this tree symbolizing the group of Jehovah's true worshipers and how it will be bound for so many times. The WT article I was reading the other day, in fact, explicitly said the tree represents true Christianity, but this is false. Right now I can't think of how this is tied in with 1914, but the WT article I read explained it. Basically the Bible, in no uncertain terms, says that the tree in the dream is NOT the worshipers of Jehovah, but it is Nebuchadnezzar and his empire. This tree being the “true Christians” is the foundation for a lot of the WT's understanding of 1914 and since their understanding is inaccurate, everything that follows that is attached to this foundation including 1914, 607, gentile times, etc is incorrect. Rip out the foundation and the whole building will crumble. Perhaps I can find the article when I get home tonight and explain it better.

Daniel 4: 20-22 (NIV) the NWT hasn't altered this passage I just like the NIV

20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth, 21 with beautiful leaves and abundant fruit, providing food for all, giving shelter to the beasts of the field, and having nesting places in its branches for the birds of the air- 22 you, O king, are that tree! You have become great and strong; your greatness has grown until it reaches the sky, and your dominion extends to distant parts of the earth.

7

The Changing Watchtower?

by Morocco in

i just want to go over a couple of topics on my mind and see what you guys all think about it.

i've noticed recently the new change in the blood doctrine and, to me, i interpreted this as the society's way of finally acknowledging the fact that the teaching is too difficult to maintain.

this is like putting a small crack in a submarine so that the water doesn't come rushing in causing people to panic, but with time the ship will still sink.

Morocco

by the way, how the heck do you get formatting to work in here?

7

The Changing Watchtower?

by Morocco in

i just want to go over a couple of topics on my mind and see what you guys all think about it.

i've noticed recently the new change in the blood doctrine and, to me, i interpreted this as the society's way of finally acknowledging the fact that the teaching is too difficult to maintain.

this is like putting a small crack in a submarine so that the water doesn't come rushing in causing people to panic, but with time the ship will still sink.

Morocco

I just want to go over a couple of topics on my mind and see what you guys all think about it.

I've noticed recently the new change in the Blood doctrine and, to me, I interpreted this as the Society's way of FINALLY acknowledging the fact that the teaching is too difficult to maintain. This is like putting a small crack in a submarine so that the water doesn't come rushing in causing people to panic, but with time the ship will still sink. Allowing fractions is the next step to allowing blood and soon they will be denying that they ever had a no-blood doctrine.

The recent convention was Deliverance At Hand! Notice the exclamation as if it was a certain, authoritative statement, not a supposition.

The Watchtower says it has quit assigning specific dates to events, yet they give every follower the math and means to assign their own date, one that is the same with everyone. Take for instance the following 1993 article from www.watchtower.org:

http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/article_07.htm

God's Purpose Soon to Be Realized
How Close Are We?
6th Paragraph Down)

How long a time period would these last days prove to be? Jesus said regarding the era that would experience the "beginning of pangs of distress" from 1914 onward: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." (Matthew 24:8, 34-36) Thus, all the features of the last days must take place within the lifetime of one generation, the generation of 1914. So some people who were alive in 1914 will still be alive when this system comes to i ts end. That generation of people is now very advanced in years, indicating that there is not much time left before God brings this present system of things to an end.

Interesting. Let us all suppose that the MAXIMUM life span of a human is... 112 years. The difference of 2006 and 1914 is 92. So if “that generation” were 0 years old in 1914, they are 92 years old today. So we have a MAXIMUM of 20 years left. So, on the safe side, let us say half that... 10 years. In 10 years the End should come, maybe even safer and say 5. For the next 5 years I will be Sodom and Gomorrah incarnate, then repent, and be okay. However, the Society, with this article, says in no uncertain terms that The End will come in the next 20 years.

But, hey don't forget, we all need to heed scriptural advice that “it is not for us to know the hour which God has set by his own authority.” So you can't say you know the exact hour, but it doesn't say anything about estimations!

Now we hear rumors that the Watchtower corporation is separating itself from the Jehovah's Witnesses. This of course, will never truly happen because they are the same being. The ties from the Jehovah's Witnesses to the Watchtower will just go underground and become harder to find. One more skeleton in the closet.

Something, I believe is about to happen with the whole entity of this religion. I think they are sitting on a major paradigm shift. They must adapt to a changing world or crumble, and I think there are signs that they are changing, but they are simultaneously desperately trying to create huge influxes of people with Armageddon scare tactics (that worked so well in the past) without becoming responsible for what they know won't happen. SOME of their rigid doctrines appear to be softening or on their way to becoming obsolete, yet they continue to propagate that their Deliverance is At Hand! The End could be tomorrow! And how much more effective will this be for The Watchtower when they can blame everything on the Jehovah's Witnesses if something goes awry like in 1975 or 1914? The separation is a fail-safe, and insurance plan, and it has been created because the amount of damage-control work has taken its toll on the corporation. Are they afraid they are going to run the Witnesses into the ground with upcoming campaigns? Are they going to let the Jehovah's Witness brand name die if one of their preaching campaigns becomes too hot to handle? Are they planing on experimenting with the newly isolated religion and shaping it into something else?

21

I Need Help!

by Morocco in

hi, i'm new to this forum and i was hoping someone could help me with some reasoning here.

i notice in the watchtowers they mention that on occasion people fall into the "trap" of "independent thinking" and this is often associated with pride and a misunderstanding of god.

also just as frequently it mentions that god progressively reveals truths to his followers.

Morocco

Wow, good response from everyone, thanks for the interest. You've all given me a square one. I know that equating independent thinking with Satan is the Society's way of saying “follow us blindly and don't look at the past” but to me it seems that God would want independent thinkers. How are we to “put all things to the test” if we don't think critically? How are we to “watch out” for those wolves in sheep's clothing if we don't have independence of thought? Also, to say that God reveals truths little by little may be true. However he does not reveal something that is contradictory to the eventual truth and then allow a time where people are affected in negative ways by it before fixing it. If THAT is God then I don't want God in my life.

48

Why is truth is so hard to find in Bible

by The Dragon in

i have been studing it for years looking for answers....yet for every answer i find there is a counter to it.

the words themselves are twisted by leaders/teachers to fit their personal opinions and adgendas, as well as twisted by trying to rely on our own reasoning to understand them.. a good example would be the way our current system of laws work.. if the supreme court writes a law into the book..say for example.."evil" is anyone who does this....... it is then turned over to a bunch of undereducated enforcers to interpert and judge others they feel are "evil".

they are allowed to accuse and shoot first asking questions later.

Morocco

I hear a lot of people talking about muddy concepts, and admittedly I am now at the point in my life where I ask myself why can people use the Bible for damn near anything they want to use it for? Why is there no clear-cut end-all interpretation or understanding of what is being said? My answer, for me, is that is the point. IF there is a God and he is indeed a good being looking for people with good hearts then wouldn't it be interesting to see what we did with his power? Wouldn't it show our true character and what is at the core of our hearts if the Bible, or religion, were set up in such a way that it provided people with the power to destroy or heal, believe or give up? The power to CHOOSE, for others or ourselves, is the only thing that can determine who we are, if we are either good or bad. I have been studying the Bible for a time and see that sometimes there is no answer to questions. WE have to make the answer, and that, to me, is the point. What kind of conclusion will we come to? How will we treat others? WHAT KIND of picture will we portray God as? The Christians who scream condemnation at the atheists may be punished for not showing love and tolerance, the atheists who shout there is no God may be punished for not believing, who knows? All I know is that it can't hurt to be tolerant, kind, forgiving, and try your best to be a good person in your heart and that if there is a God he will see it and not forget HOW you have behaved about the ever increasing confusion that is life.

21

I Need Help!

by Morocco in

hi, i'm new to this forum and i was hoping someone could help me with some reasoning here.

i notice in the watchtowers they mention that on occasion people fall into the "trap" of "independent thinking" and this is often associated with pride and a misunderstanding of god.

also just as frequently it mentions that god progressively reveals truths to his followers.

Morocco

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I was hoping someone could help me with some reasoning here. I notice in the Watchtowers they mention that on occasion people fall into the "trap" of "independent thinking" and this is often associated with pride and a misunderstanding of God. Also just as frequently it mentions that God progressively reveals truths to his followers. And I've noticed they usually refer to Proverbs 4:18 where it says "18 But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established" This is, I believe, where they get their "new light" theory. On both of these topics I need help on showing from the Bible how God, not only does not progressively reveal truth, but also how independent thinking is not something to be considered evil. I know in my heart and with reasoning that the demonization of free thought and the idea that truth is revealed in steps must be incorrect but I am looking for a, hopefully existent, sound scriptural piece that will allow me to back up my reasoning. Thanks in advance! ryan[/i]