Yea right. It takes triple the text to proove "fleshy ressurection" to "spiritual ressurection" instead of believing what bible says. Can anybody point me to the place in bible where somebody (besides Jesus) is ressurected NOT in his previous body? Or what about Deeds 8:39-40 was Philip also spiritual superbeeing to be able move around. Or whas Jesus allready spiritual being when he was walking the water? Common... if Jesus is not ressurected, but there is some spiritual copy of Jesus which did not die for our sins, then you are still under damnation of God. See... this is where JW looses their salvation - not believing that Jesus himself give HIS life (not body), DIED and RESSURECTED (in his own body) and gained WHOLE power in the heaven and the earth. So... diagnosis for JW is - burning in the hell even if they don't believe it! Simple and plain... hell is what awaits JW... and their interpretation will not save them!
Shazard
JoinedPosts by Shazard
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39
Parousia and invisibe presence
by Hellrider ini`m discussing something with a jw.
i claim that the greek "parousia" doesn`t mean invisible presence, it simply means "presence".
isn`t that correct?
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Can I pick your brain?
by nerofiddle inim looking for your help with an issue.
although im agnostic and not a bible believer, im currently having regular visits/discussions with a couple of jw elders.
im fully aware of the jw doctrine that christ is a created being and im familiar with scriptural texts and the reasoning they use in support of that claim.
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Shazard
See you are good example of normal human bible nonbeliever who understands Bible as it is written. That different cults and sects change meaning of words and even whole sentences using ANY argument they can find or even invent. They use "logic" to proove you spiritual things. Ok... now to John 1:3 this word "by" is greek "dia", which I believe stands for english "by". English is only my 2nd foreign language, so I can't say for sure. In my language there is no such word as "by" with the same meaning as in english. I believe that the word "by" may be used somehow different in Kings James times or whatever. But I guess correct rendering should be "by". But there are scriptures where the same construction is applied clearly to God... Heb 2:10, Rom 11:36. But also the same claims which are sayed in John 1:3 are sayed in Colossians 1:16. Funny is that Collosians 1:15 they use ase proove text of Christs being created beeing applying meaning of "firsborn" as "firstcreated" (as if to born is to create) ignoring context, which demands that this "firstborn" should be rendered in sense of superiority, the one who is over all!
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Quotes Mirror
by Shazard inhttp://www.sarunas.lv & http://www.sarunas.lv/downloads/ in this second link is the whole site zipped.
this site will not be stable, but whoever is in europa, can try!
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Shazard
http://www.sarunas.lv & http://www.sarunas.lv/downloads/ in this second link is the whole site zipped. This site will not be stable, but whoever is in europa, can try!
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77
why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?
by evergreen inhi everyone, i have often wondered why so many religions view jesus as being god.
every website i look up claiming to be the christian faith strongly believe that this is the case.. i mean the actual trinity doctrine didnt come about untill about the 3rd or 4th century and was originally the catholic church that brought it about.
although jehovahs witnesses seem to push jesus into the background a lot which is something that has always troubled me.
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Shazard
Hellrider, you are right. Most of JW and others try to argue against trinity without even understanding what it says. And most funny is that JWs uses antimodalist arguments against trinity without understanding trinity! That is straw-man method!
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77
why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?
by evergreen inhi everyone, i have often wondered why so many religions view jesus as being god.
every website i look up claiming to be the christian faith strongly believe that this is the case.. i mean the actual trinity doctrine didnt come about untill about the 3rd or 4th century and was originally the catholic church that brought it about.
although jehovahs witnesses seem to push jesus into the background a lot which is something that has always troubled me.
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Shazard
People, hear yourself. You are comparing your imagination god with Jesus and saying, as Jesus does not act like MY imagined God then he is not God. So say me, how would God Allmighty would act if he would come to earth in human flesh? What would he say? What would he do? Would he showed love, example of obidence, would he wash your foots, would he DIE for you if he would be God? How does YOUR God acts? My God acts just like Jesus did...
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77
why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?
by evergreen inhi everyone, i have often wondered why so many religions view jesus as being god.
every website i look up claiming to be the christian faith strongly believe that this is the case.. i mean the actual trinity doctrine didnt come about untill about the 3rd or 4th century and was originally the catholic church that brought it about.
although jehovahs witnesses seem to push jesus into the background a lot which is something that has always troubled me.
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Shazard
And also all this stuff comes from human undestanding of term "God". God sayed - "I am who I am". People thing about God as about beaing in image of human. But it is opposite. God is not like human in his nature. You even are not able to define term "person" without applying it to God. God is something different then men, so it is just assumption that he is LIKE human in his nature. God does not claim he is one person... he is claiming that he is the one who brings everything to reality. He is creator... THE CREATOR of this reality (and any reality beyond this). Even his name YHWH means that, so it should be translated not "LORD" but "CREATOR". But the assumption that creators nature is something like "powerupped man" is wrong. People are not able to change their view on reality even when God himself reaveals the reality... People whant reality to be in sync with their imagination. So if something (Christ) does not conform to their imagined "God" then he is not. And even God cant change their mind. So question here... Do you know YOUR God? Do you know him so well, than if he would stood up in front of you in the image of man, would you recognize him. Would it be enough him to say "I AM your God"? Would you believe such claim. What should God do in his human image to make you believe that he IS your God? Should he show his power by healing only by his words? Should he rebuke demons and Satan? Should he rebuke wind and storm? Should he rise from the dead? Would YOUR God die for you to proove his love to you as the creature of HIS image? How would you recognize YOUR God? I have recognized my God... in Christ... and untill I breath I put ALL my hope that he will not let my eyes to go blind and to deny Christ... My Lord and My God! Lord Christ, please do not leave me, but I know you would not, coz you promised so!
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77
why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?
by evergreen inhi everyone, i have often wondered why so many religions view jesus as being god.
every website i look up claiming to be the christian faith strongly believe that this is the case.. i mean the actual trinity doctrine didnt come about untill about the 3rd or 4th century and was originally the catholic church that brought it about.
although jehovahs witnesses seem to push jesus into the background a lot which is something that has always troubled me.
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Shazard
FlyingHighNow, Actually he DID claim it, only not everybody hears it, sees it and believes it! When you read with opened eyes, you see at every second sentence Christ claiming he is God! The problem is if you do not recognize God's name, if you do not recognize the one person all the time appearing to Old Testament fathers and prohpets, if you do not recognize Gods work, Gods words... you will not recognize Christ. If you say that Christ is not God, you are claiming to KNOW what and who IS God, but Christ sayed if you knew Him youw would knew God. But MOST important thing is... if you do not recognize Christ as God, then you are still under your sin and Gods punishment is over you. If Christ is not God, then you are not saved! And nobody is saved.
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"no man hath seen God at any time"
by mdb inin the book let god be true (watchtower bible and tract society, 1946), p.86-87, section titled is there a trinity?, while attempting to disprove the trinity doctrine using 1 tim 3:16, it states:
the translation, word for word from the greek, reads, "who was manifested in flesh.
" the american standard uses "he who"; other versions use the word "which".
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Shazard
Most funny is comparing Isaiah 6:5-10 with John 12:39-41 ... JW just can't explain this.
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JW are right
by Shazard inthey just don't know what about :) i will tell... actually the day when watchtower organization is going down from inside, it will bee armageddon for them!
just don't know exact year it will happen so no... i am not prophet, just descreet and faithfull slave :)
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Shazard
They just don't know what about :) I will tell... actually the day when Watchtower organization is going down from inside, it WILL BEE Armageddon for them! Just don't know exact year it will happen so no... I am not prophet, just descreet and faithfull slave :)
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You cannot live forever in paradise on earth
by Gopher inthe watchtower society has, for about seven decades, been attracting new volunteer workers for its field ministry with the promise of life forever on a paradise earth.
even the titles of its main study books since 1968 bear the promise: the truth that leads to eternal life, you can live forever in paradise on earth, and knowledge that leads to everlasting life.
how logical is this hope that leads people to entrust the watchtower with their time, energy and worldly possessions?
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Shazard
Ouh common... if JW would pay me good money, I can solve this gap in their religions. For example...who sayed that there is only one dimension on the Earth. If you shift time-space continum one second in future or past you get whole new empty Earth. So you have infinit parallel universes. Read right dudes and you will see that the Earth will be multidimensional curved time-space and people will have ability to travel through these dimensions and there allways will be plenty of space on THE earth. --- So... JW, 2 million dollars and I will fix YOUR religion :)