THE UN! Check Awake! magazines for the last 10 years!
cyberguy
JoinedPosts by cyberguy
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my service meeting part
by nytelecom1 inas there are many ex elder and ex ministerial servants on this board i would like suggestions for my part later "how would u respond--where do witnesses get their understanding of the bible".
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flame on!!!!
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MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS- UN LETTER & 1992 Press R...
by hawkaw inas of 6:02 pm last night i received a facsimile from paul hoeffel at the un on the wts.. he gave me 3 of the 4 things i requested in two paragraphs.. i have sent a scanned version to steve bates and someone else.. i sent it to kent and randy.
and kent and randy have posted the official united nations letter on their web sites.. here is the letter - put your cursor on the image and then right click on your mouse and hit "save image" to your computer.. .
after you look at kent's web site and you people still think this it is a fake letter, phone paul hoeffel yourself at (212) 963-8070.. hawk
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cyberguy
LoneWolf:
This is by far the best news release I've read concerning the UN fiasco!
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YK on WT UN NGO STATUS
by You Know inseveral posters have asked what i thought of the.
revelations about the wt being associated with the un.
as an ngo so i thought i might make a brief comment on.
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cyberguy
bjc2012:
>> And is Christ also the Mystery "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3?
YES! In the preceding 2 "restoration" prophecies, this "chieftain" is identified with the greater "David."
*** Rbi8 Ezekiel 34:20-24 ***
20 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said to them: “Here I am, I myself, and I shall certainly judge between a plump sheep and a lean sheep, 21 for the reason that with flank and with shoulder YOU kept pushing and with YOUR horns YOU kept shoving all the sickened ones until YOU had scattered them to the outside. 22 And I will save my sheep, and they will no longer become something for plunder; and I will judge between a sheep and a sheep. 23 And I will raise up over them one shepherd, and he must feed them, even my servant David. He himself will feed them, and he himself will become their shepherd. 24 And I myself, Jehovah, will become their God, and my servant David a chieftain in the midst of them. I myself, Jehovah, have spoken.*** Rbi8 Ezekiel 37:24-25 ***
24 “‘“And my servant David will be king over them, and one shepherd is what they will all come to have; and in my judicial decisions they will walk, and my statutes they will keep, and they will certainly carry them out. 25 And they will actually dwell upon the land that I gave to my servant, to Jacob, in which YOUR forefathers dwelt, and they will actually dwell upon it, they and their sons and their sons’ sons to time indefinite, and David my servant will be their chieftain to time indefinite. -
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jan H and Daniel
by uncle_onion injan. you said on a recent post that the book of daniel is meant to be dated a lot later then thought.
have you any info on this please?.
uo
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cyberguy
Daniel -- An introduction & Commentary by Joyce G. Baldwin, can be purchased at http://www.ivpbooks.com/
I have the complete Tyndale Old Testament and New Testament Commentaries -- They're great! I would say a "must-have" for anyone seriously looking for a modern commentary.
Jan,
Joyce's work has excellent coverage of some of the issues you've raised, but seems to bend toward the traditional view of the date of writing, authorship, and historicity of the book. Any comments on this (see pp. 19-46)?
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"Hypocrite Organization"
by biblexaminer inhere's a good one.. .
hypocrite organization "disassociates" from the un.
they will come to your door soon, and they will bear in hand a magazine that warns you about "'religious hypocrisy".
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cyberguy
biblexaminer:
Regarding your statement --
______________________________
The Watchtower then went further, demanding that its name be immediately removed from the UN's web site, in a futile attempt to hide their adulterous relationship. It was removed on or about noon of October 17, 2001.
________________________________When did this happen? Can this be verified? -- Just curious.
The snippet "in a futile attempt to hide their adulterous relationship" may be true, but can you prove that was the motivation? Rather, might it not be better to just say: "this has all the markings of a cover-up."
Also, this added stuff seems a little out of place here....
____________________________
Also in the news, the Watchtower's policy on dealing with pedophiles will be exposed on a fall edition of Dateline NBC. Members accuse the Watchtower of issuing policies, which hide cases of child abuse, in an attempt to present an image of a "pure" and "clean" organization headed by no other than Jesus.
____________________________Why go off topic? Sounds too much like the author has an ax to grind. Instead, perhaps you could make a few quotes from Watchtower literature to drive home your excellent arguments -- just a suggestion.
Overall, this is very well done. I especially like your opening paragraph.
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Would a JW go beyond the scriptures?
by ozziepost inaccording to jw media, baptism "symbolizes one's dedication to god".. on this basis, a jw's allegiance and obedience is to god.
thus, the article goes on to state:jehovah's witnesses avoid making rules and regulations beyond those provided in the scriptures.
, and they do not follow traditions that contradict bible teachings.
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cyberguy
JeffT:
If you did it between 1985 and 1999 are you grandfathered in?
Not with the BORG! Like the UN stuff, this is another example hypocrisy!
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Would a JW go beyond the scriptures?
by ozziepost inaccording to jw media, baptism "symbolizes one's dedication to god".. on this basis, a jw's allegiance and obedience is to god.
thus, the article goes on to state:jehovah's witnesses avoid making rules and regulations beyond those provided in the scriptures.
, and they do not follow traditions that contradict bible teachings.
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cyberguy
Since the Christian Greek Scriptures give no direct guidance on such matters, Christians must make personal decisions about limiting the size of their family and about birth control.
Why can't the jerks in writing just leave it alone?
Notice the contrast to the my earlier post. This is taken from an earlier QFR:
*** w85 5/1 31 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From ReadersIn view of reports that doctors may be able to reverse a voluntary sterilization, might not some Christians choose it as a form of birth control?
The Bible shows that God has high regard for reproductive powers. He purposed that humans fill the earth by reproducing their kind. (Genesis 1:28; 9:6, 7) Later, Israelites regarded large families as a blessing from Jehovah, and tampering with reproductive powers brought divine disfavor. (Psalm 127:3-5; Deuteronomy 1:11; 23:1; 25:11, 12) Such points in the Hebrew Scriptures have influenced the thinking of many of God¡¦s servants with regard to the practice of voluntary sterilization.
What, though, do we find in the Christian Greek Scriptures bearing on the matter? For one thing, we learn that Christians are not under the Mosaic Law. (Galatians 3:24, 25) Further, Jesus urged the expansion of Christianity by preaching the good news, not by procreation. Since a great harvest of disciples would result, Jesus advised disciples who could make room for it to become eunuchs in a spiritual sense, expressing self-control as single persons. Of similar import, the apostle Paul encouraged Christians not to marry and thus to have greater freedom to preach and teach. That way they would gather in spiritual children. Even married couples were to remember that ¡§the time left is reduced¡¨; their goal should be ¡¥freedom from the anxieties¡¦ of family life.¡X1 Corinthians 7:29-32, 35; Matthew 9:37, 38; 19:12.
When we last discussed voluntary sterilization in this column* most physicians considered the procedure irreversible and thus permanent. However, medical developments in the last decade have changed the situation somewhat. For example, Population Reports (November-December 1983, Johns Hopkins University) says about vasectomies: ¡§In recent reports reversals have restored patency¡Xthat is, sperm have been found in the ejaculate, 'in 67 to 100 percent of men. Functional success,' that is, pregnancies among the wives of men who have had reversals 'has ranged from 16 to 85 percent.' New surgical procedures and methods of implanting temporary blocks are also pointed to as indicating that reversal success will yet increase.
Since the Christian Greek Scriptures give no direct guidance on such matters, Christians must make personal decisions about limiting the size of their family and about birth control. As to sterilization, they should bear in mind that even though a reversal is theoretically more possible now than it was a decade ago, physicians cannot guarantee that reproductive ability can be restored.
Above all, a couple should keep a clear conscience before Jehovah and toward their fellow Christians. If a couple is thinking of sterilization as a form of birth control, they still should consider any effect their actions may have on others. Though married couples do not usually publicize their decision about birth control, if it became widely known that a couple had resorted to voluntary sterilization, would the congregation be greatly upset and lose respect for them? (1 Timothy 3:2, 12, 13) These are factors to consider very seriously, even in this private and personal matter. In the final analysis, Paul's statement is appropriate: To his own master [Jehovah] he stands or falls. XRomans 14:4, 10-12.
[Footnotes]
See, for example, Questions From Readers, The Watchtower of March 1, 1975. -
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Would a JW go beyond the scriptures?
by ozziepost inaccording to jw media, baptism "symbolizes one's dedication to god".. on this basis, a jw's allegiance and obedience is to god.
thus, the article goes on to state:jehovah's witnesses avoid making rules and regulations beyond those provided in the scriptures.
, and they do not follow traditions that contradict bible teachings.
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cyberguy
Hi Close2fire:
Notice the paragraph just above the footnote. If someone is a servant, he could be removed if found out!
*** w99 6/15 27-8 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From ReadersSince sterilization procedures are now said to be reversible on request, might a Christian view them as a birth-control option?
Sterilization has become the most widely used means of family planning. For many people, its acceptability seems determined by social and educational background, as well as by religious views. The aspect of religious belief comes into play with Jehovah’s Witnesses, who share the psalmist’s desire: “Instruct me, O Jehovah, in your way, and lead me in the path of uprightness.” (Psalm 27:11) What is involved in sterilization procedures?
Male sterilization for birth control is called a vasectomy. Two small sperm cords, or tubes, in the scrotum are cut and blocked. This can be done in various medical ways, but the intent is to make it impossible for sperm to pass from the testicles. Female sterilization is called tubal ligation. It is usually done by cutting and tying (or, burning) closed the Fallopian tubes, which carry eggs from the ovaries to the uterus.
It was long considered that these steps were permanent—that they produced irreversible sterilization. But some people, because of regretting their step or as a result of new circumstances, have sought medical help to undo a vasectomy or tubal ligation. With the advent of specialized instruments and microsurgery, attempts at reversal have been more successful. It is not uncommon to read that with selected candidates there can be 50 to 70 percent success in reversing a vasectomy by rejoining the severed ends of the tiny tubes. Rates of 60 to 80 percent success for reversing female tubal ligation are claimed. Some who have learned about this have felt that sterilization need no longer be viewed as permanent. They might believe that a vasectomy and tubal ligation can be viewed as being in the same category as oral contraceptives, condoms, and diaphragms—methods that can be discontinued if a pregnancy is desired. Yet, some sobering aspects should not be ignored.
One is that prospects for a reversal can be hurt dramatically by such factors as the amount of damage to tubes during the sterilization procedure, the amount of the tube removed or scarred, the number of years that have passed since the procedure, and in the case of a vasectomy, whether antibodies against the man’s sperm have resulted. And not to be ignored is the fact that facilities for microsurgery may not be available in many areas, or the expense may be prohibitive. Thus, many who might desperately wish to have a sterilization reversed would not be able to. For them it is final. So the above-noted rates for reversals are really just theoretical, not dependable averages.
Some facts bear on the realities. An article published in the United States on reversing a vasectomy commented that after the $12,000 operation, “only 63 percent of patients can impregnate their partners.” Moreover, just “six percent of men who get a vasectomy eventually seek a reversal.” In a German study about central Europe, some 3 percent of men who chose to be sterilized later sought reversal. Even if half of those attempts could succeed, it would mean that for 98.5 percent, having a vasectomy amounted to permanent sterilization. And the rate would be higher in lands with few or no microsurgeons.
Consequently, it is unrealistic to treat male or female sterilization lightly, as if it were temporary birth control. And for the sincere Christian, there are other aspects to consider.
A central point is that reproductive powers are a gift from our Creator. His original purpose included procreation by perfect humans, who would “fill the earth and subdue it.” (Genesis 1:28) After the Flood cut earth’s population to eight, God repeated those basic instructions. (Genesis 9:1) God did not repeat that command to the nation of Israel, but Israelites viewed having offspring as something very desirable.—1 Samuel 1:1-11; Psalm 128:3.God’s Law to Israel contained indications of his regard for human procreation. For example, if a married man died before producing a son to carry on his lineage, his brother was to father a son by brother-in-law marriage. (Deuteronomy 25:5) More to the point was the law about a wife who tried to help her husband in a fight. If she grasped the privates of her husband’s opponent, her hand was to be amputated; significantly, God did not require eye-for-eye damage to her or her husband’s reproductive organs. (Deuteronomy 25:11, 12) This law would clearly engender respect for reproductive organs; these were not to be destroyed needlessly.
We know that Christians are not under Israel’s Law, so the regulation at Deuteronomy 25:11, 12 is not binding on them. Jesus neither ordered nor implied that his disciples must marry and have as many children as possible, which many couples have considered when deciding on whether to use some method of birth control. (Matthew 19:10-12) The apostle Paul did encourage passionate ‘younger widows to marry and bear children.’ (1 Timothy 5:11-14) He did not bring up the permanent sterilization of Christians—their voluntarily sacrificing their reproductive potential to bear children.
Christians do well to weigh such indications that God esteems their reproductive ability. Each couple must determine if and when they will employ appropriate methods of family planning. Granted, their decision would be particularly telling if there were confirmed medical assurances that mother or child faced grave medical risks, even a probability of death, with a future pregnancy. Some in that situation have reluctantly submitted to a sterilization procedure as described earlier to make sure that no pregnancy would threaten the life of the mother (who may already have other children) or that of a child who might later be born with a life-threatening health problem.
But Christians who are not facing such an unusual and distinct risk would certainly want to use ‘soundness of mind’ and shape their thinking and deeds by God’s esteem for reproductive potential. (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:8; 2:2, 5-8) This would reflect mature sensitivity to Scriptural indications. Yet, what if it became publicly known that a Christian blithely disregarded God’s evaluations? Would not others doubt whether he (or, she) was a good example, having a reputation of making decisions in harmony with the Bible? Such a disturbing blemish on one’s reputation could, of course, affect a minister’s being qualified for special privileges of service, though that might not be so if one had in ignorance had this procedure performed.—1 Timothy 3:7.
[Footnotes]
“Surgical attempts to reconnect the [vas deferens] have a success rate of at least 40 percent, and there is some evidence that greater success may be achieved with improved microsurgical techniques. Nevertheless, sterilization by means of vasectomy should be considered permanent.” (Encyclopædia Britannica) “Sterilization should be regarded as a permanent procedure. Despite what the patient may have heard about reversal, reanastomosis is expensive, and success cannot be guaranteed. For women who undergo reversal of tubal sterilization, the risk of ectopic pregnancy is high.”—Contemporary OB/GYN, June 1998.Another law that might seem relevant said that no man whose genitals were severely damaged could come into God’s congregation. (Deuteronomy 23:1) However, Insight on the Scriptures notes that this evidently “had to do with deliberate emasculation for immoral purposes, such as homosexuality.” Hence, that law did not involve castration or the equivalent for birth control. Insight also says: “Jehovah comfortingly foretold the time when eunuchs would be accepted by him as his servants and, if obedient, would have a name better than sons and daughters. With the abolition of the Law by Jesus Christ, all persons exercising faith, regardless of their former status or condition, could become spiritual sons of God. Fleshly distinctions were removed.—Isa 56:4, 5; Joh 1:12.”
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Would a JW go beyond the scriptures?
by ozziepost inaccording to jw media, baptism "symbolizes one's dedication to god".. on this basis, a jw's allegiance and obedience is to god.
thus, the article goes on to state:jehovah's witnesses avoid making rules and regulations beyond those provided in the scriptures.
, and they do not follow traditions that contradict bible teachings.
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cyberguy
10) Beards are evil!
11) Must go out in service at least 1 hour each month to be a "publisher," considered more "spiritual" if you match or exceed the publisher "average"
12) Be sure to turn in your field service reports each month, and on time
13) Must follow ALL directions of the "Governing Body"
14) No college except where absolutely necessary, and ONLY so that you'll be able to "pioneer"
15) Skirt lengths below the knees for sisters
16) Male sterilization for birth control is prohibited (once again)
17) No sports or after-school club activities for JW children in school
18) Once baptized, not permitted to question teachings of the Watchtower -
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JW Culture has Changed!
by Amazing inin the late 1960s, i became a jw.
there was a sense of intellectual freedom and more openness to discuss various spiritual and even some social topics.
there was reliance on watch tower literature as an authority, but still the soiciety seem to confine its concerns and left the rest up to individual jws to decide.
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cyberguy
Amazing --
I find it very interesting that you brought up this subject, because I had recently discussed this very issue with a friend of mine. The Witness culture has changed from what I remember as a kid in the 1960's. I recall some public talks where the speaker would encourage Bible study, but if we had a serious question and couldn’t find a satisfactory answer from Witness literature, we should "write the Society." I also recall several conversations with some old timers that lived in the early 1940's. They claimed that congregations allowed special orders for bible commentaries and other non-Watchtower publications -- we certainly don't do that any more!
Recently, I got my ass burned when some self-righteous elder-jerk found out that I had a number of non-witness bible commentaries in my house. He wanted to know why I had such apostate literature in my house and what other apostate things I was doing! However, I truthfully answered him by stating that I purchased the volumes while in Bethel (late 70's), and had actually ordered them from Bethel's own literature depot (not sure if they do this now). Anyway, that shut him up!