Posts by Cygnus

57

Famous Last Words

by You Know in

jw
friends

the great depression had more to do with shaping the character and defining the last century than any other event, except the great wars that caused and followed the depression.

the structure of the financial system though has radically changed since that time, in that it is many times larger, global in fact, and it is much more fragile and complex, in that it reacts nearly instantaneously to various factors.

the average person is now much more dependent upon and indebted to the system as well.

Cygnus

YK,

Oh yeah. It's all one big illusion that I consistently have thousands of yearly clients who open up their wallets to spend their hard earned money on what usually amounts to a luxury. I'm fooling myself for having worked hard enough to overcome $20,000.00 in credit card debt to the point where I was easily approved for a mortgage last year and have paid off all my bills.

Life sucks! I'm going to go sell my house and all my belongings, give the proceeds to the Watchtower Society and hope that God spares me from the imminent cataclysm destined to arrive upon this earth Real Soon Now!

26

Do you choose DA or DF?

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

some of us were discussing the other day the 'advantages' and 'disadvantages' of disassociating from the witnesses as against being disfellowshipped (for apostasy).. it seems from reading various experiences that most departing borgites choose to send in a letter of disassociation.

for them it saves the 'hassle' of being harrassed by the modern-day philistines, the elder class.

it also saves, to some extent, the reputation of the exdub.

Cygnus

Ozzie,

At first I told the elders to go ahead and do whatever they wanted. I admitted "guilt" to the offense, and said there's not much reason for me to go to a hearing since I wasn't going to try and defend myself against the charges. So I skipped the hearing. But they called to reschedule, and so I decided, what the hell, I'll go and see what happens, for academic purposes if nothing else.

My wife had nothing to do with any of it. She, in certain ways, expressed her support and respect for my decisions during the ordeal, if I could call it that.

Several times they tried to get me to announce that I wanted to be disassociated. They clearly did not want to DF me. They repeatedly said that since I had made a dedication and was baptized, that presently I was either a JW, or not a JW. If I were not any longer practicing as a JW, then I would have to DA, or be DF'd, particularly if I were to engage in actvities that JWs ought not (which, in my case, was associating with a DF'd person).

I did write two letters to the Society afterwards, and the Society said, "We find no reason to question the decisions made by the judicial and appeal committees in regards to your being disfellowshipped from the congregation." There was no comment on the 1987 Watchtower, or my length of inactivity.

Some say that my going to the hearings meant that I was acknowledging their authority. I don't think so, especially since I brought my DF'd friend with me as a demonstration that I didn't care what they thought or did. The sentence they imposed on me basically amounted to nothing. I had several JW friends who have not been DFed and are currently inactive who associate with me. I've not had one problem with my parents, grandmother, or anyone else for quitting the religion and subsequently being DF'd. There are several active JWs online who regularly talk to me. And I hope that in some way, my experience has made some of my past JW acquaintances a little more aware of the tactics of the group they are involved with.

Hope that helps.

57

Famous Last Words

by You Know in

jw
friends

the great depression had more to do with shaping the character and defining the last century than any other event, except the great wars that caused and followed the depression.

the structure of the financial system though has radically changed since that time, in that it is many times larger, global in fact, and it is much more fragile and complex, in that it reacts nearly instantaneously to various factors.

the average person is now much more dependent upon and indebted to the system as well.

Cygnus

YK has been blathering on about an imminent financial collapse since 1998.

Since that time, I have made enough money to purchase my first house, a Saturn coupe for my wife, a Taurus SHO for myself, three brand new work vehicles for my company, three different computer systems, five cellular phones, $25,000.00 advertisements in two phone books, a huge remodeling project of my showroom, and have plenty of money in the bank.

My business primarily consists of projects and services entirely unessential for basic human survival.

Yeah, everything sure has sucked for three years. I guess the next three are just gonna get worse and worse.

26

Do you choose DA or DF?

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

some of us were discussing the other day the 'advantages' and 'disadvantages' of disassociating from the witnesses as against being disfellowshipped (for apostasy).. it seems from reading various experiences that most departing borgites choose to send in a letter of disassociation.

for them it saves the 'hassle' of being harrassed by the modern-day philistines, the elder class.

it also saves, to some extent, the reputation of the exdub.

Cygnus

Well, good for you Venice! That took some guts.

Last spring two elders showed up at my house under the pretense of inviting me to the Memorial (I had been inactive for three years). When I declined their invitation they came out and admitted that the real reason for their visit was that a judicial hearing was scheduled and that I was accused of having been witnesses socializing with a disfellowshipped person.

Long story short, I didn't fight the accusation, and in fact brought my DF'd friend with me to the initial hearing. They said, "We have no choice but to DF you." Duh. I did appeal, referencing the _Flock_ book and also a 1987 Watchtower:

"Depending upon length of inactivity… elders may determine to hold the matter in abeyance." (pg. 100 of the book _Pay Attention to Yourselves and to the Flock_)

"If Mary had reported first to the body of elders, they would have been faced with a similar decision. How would they handle confidential information coming into their possession? They would have had to make a decision based on what they felt Jehovah and his Word required of them as shepherds of the flock. If the report involved a baptized Christian who was actively associated with the congregation, they would have had to weigh the evidence as did Mary in determining if they should proceed further. If they decided that there was a strong possibility that a condition of "leaven" existed in the congregation, they might have chosen to assign a judicial committee to look into the matter. (Galatians 5:9, 10) If the one under suspicion had, in effect, resigned from being a member, not having attended any meetings for some time and not identifying herself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, they might choose to let the matter rest until such time as she did begin to identify herself again as a Witness." (WT 9/1/87)

Since I had no dealings with anyone in the congregation since I quit going to meetings, I argued that there was no reason for me to have to face the disfellowshipping procedure.

The elders ignored these directives. I also pointed out that the Society's website says that those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned. They said, "Some alleged website is not our authority."

So I got DF'd. It seems to me that it happened a long, long time ago. My wife is still a JW. Her JW family doesn't have much problem with me. One elder on the committee told me that it would be a "real test for your family to have to avoid you now." I laughed at him and said that no one in my family would follow those stupid rules. And they haven't. Had I DA'd myself, I think that would have looked worse. So I'm satisfied with being DF'd for such a bullshit reason.

17

The poem INVICTUS - what a piece of crap!

by Tallyman in

jw
friends

* http://www.intrex.net/tallyman/invictus.html

Cygnus

My good friend COMF happens to quite like that particular piece. So do I.

As a matter of interest, in case anyone might be interested: I knew Tim McVeigh from back in the '80s when we corresponded occasionally via local C64 BBS's (he lived 20 miles away when we were teenagers).

33

MORE FROM PROFITS OF DOOM

by You Know in

jw
friends

whom do you trust?

according to apostates, god and his word can't be trusted because the bible is unreliable and jehovah god is a baby killer and murderer of innocent people.

trusting the watchtower is out of the question, because obviously, the whole thrust of the apostasy is aimed at discrediting the watchtower so as to create wicked suspicions and distrust in the minds of trusting ones, apparently with some success.

Cygnus

WT sez 1952: soon God's patience with the wicked nations will run out, which will mean their destruction

1957: "The complete end of all things has drawn close" is a warning that now reaches us with greatly magnified force.

1965: This much is certain, we are living in the last days of this old system of things and soon now it will suffer violent destruction in the "war of the great day of God the Almighty."

1973: Accordingly, Christians live and work as though tomorrow could see the end of this present system.

1981: current events fulfilling Bible prophecy show us that God will soon bring the end of the present wicked system of things

1986: he is now enthroned as King and will soon bring this unrighteous system of things to its end.

1993: Jehovah's preachers of the good news know the life-saving value of their message and will keep on preaching it without letup until the end of this world and its wisdom at the war of Armageddon. Soon, Jehovah God will vindicate his universal sovereignty and bring everlasting life to all those now believing and acting on "the foolishness of what is preached."

YouKnow sez 1998: The onrushing global financial collapse is certain to provide the necessary spark to detonate an earth wide explosion; which, in the coming days and weeks of 1998, (probably an 'October suprise' since you have asked me to be specific) will rock the present political order off its foundation, and usher in the necessary circumstances which will result in a final confrontation with Jehovah.

YouKnow sez 1999: I think it is pretty plain in my post that I think Y2K is going to be it. . . while it is fairly easy to say that the present system will fail to run the gauntlet of the entire year.

YouKnow sez 2000: Why is it so unbelievable that this could be the end? Is it because the Watchtower hasn't told you that it is the end?

YouKnow sez 2001: . . . soon [!]

4

Amount of Time Not Speaking to You

by Larry in

jw
friends

question to all ex-jw's whose family refuse to have contact with them - how long has it been since the last time your relative(s) spoke to you or had any meaningful communication w/ you?

it's been over a year since my mother, sisters, cousins and aunts had any real communication with me.

i've read a post last week and i think someone said it's been over 20 years since one of their relatives spoke to them!

Cygnus

None of my JW family has shunned me since I was DFed last spring. Not one. And I knew that would be the case. When one particular elder on my judicial committee told me (actually, he was reinforcing the idea to himself) that my family would be "tried and tested" by having to shun me, I broke out in laughter and said, "I _guarantee_ they won't follow the rules," and I was right.

Right, as I always am, I might add.

32

Biology Lesson for the gals

by Francois in

jw
friends

elsewhere in the active topics list is a great post from wasasister dealing in a very wise manner with women's hormonal cycle.

the viewpoint and outlook contained in her post was to my mind very well done, thoughtful, considerate, and made a number of points that would be helpful to keep in mind in dealing with the male/female dynamic.. so i hope (and believe) that wasa won't mind if i use her post to springboard to one of my own - the mirror image of hers.. wasa makes a very good point in saying that women are jerked around by the hormones in their blood every month.

and lots of us know at least one woman whose pms reaches truly epic proportions.

Cygnus

Sex is overrated and unnecessary. Women are mere objects of lust and are to be cast aside so as to pursue more meaningful enterprises.

46

What Caused Your First Doubt ?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

for me it was when i was about twelve years old and my best friends dad was disfellowshipped from the congregation.. i could not understand how a god of love would treat someone so coldly.. i used to think what if that was the way my parents would treat me if i had done something wrong, that would be so hard and cruel.. as i got older another thing that bothered me was the beard issue.

it may sound pretty trivial however the society has always refused to make a good arguement as to why they would give you the old cold shoulder if you were to grow one.. two more items; first i could not understand why all the congregations and all the assemblys would give income reports.

and the society never did.

Cygnus

I was at a client's home. He happened to be Jewish. When in his basement I noticed a Jewish timeline, and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians was dated as 586 BC. I knew that was wrong, but in case I ever had to defend the correct date of 607, I thought I'd better do some research.

Big, bang, BOOM!

6

The Kingdom--Present or Future?

by GinnyTosken in

jw
friends

the five gospels: the search for the authentic words of jesus by robert w. funk, roy w. hoover, and the jesus seminar, includes topic essays amidst the text of the gospels.

i thought this particular essay might be of interest to some folks here, since we came from a religion that saw the kingdom as future.. ginny.

present or future?.

Cygnus

Ginny,

I love the way you love the way you love me.