although it has probably been discussed.
i find the latest km on disfellowshipping to be a particularly annoying pack of half-truths.
first of all, its title "display christian loyalty when a relative is disfellowshipped" says it is about relatives who are disfellowshipped and then in the first paragraph it says it applies "equally to those who are disfellowshipped and those who disassociate themselves.".
It doesn't take away the pain, but fwiw, sources tell me that the general reception to this KM article has so far been fairly cool. Comments along the line of "individual JWs are deciding to do what they will do, regardless of this article," and "those that have df'd relatives feel very differently about this article than those who have never had to face the issue personally."
Craig
recently i read a thread about god's name.
so i did some research on the word "name" in the bible.
what i came away with is the question, "does god change?".
Perhaps we should distinguish between the nature of a descriptive epithetical change, and an essential change. By definition, God has not changed and can not change essentially. However, the interaction of an infinite God with our finite universe and individual existences must ALWAYS change insofar as our perceptions of Him are concerned, including whatever name(s) He provides to us and by which we identify Him. Just as Abram did not change as a person simply because his name was changed.
Craig
this will probably sound controversial to anyone who is still religiously inclined so i apologies upfront and do not mean any offence by it.
it's just my 'pondering'.. i was thinking about all the times that i heard form the platform and read in the watchtower that jesus made the greatest sacrifice ever in history by giving his life in exchange for all minkind, to die for our sins etc.. but even if this were true, would it be such a great sacrifice?.
giving one life in exchange for thousands ... millions ... billions seems to be not too big a sacrifice for the return and one that many people would make today.
Perhaps another perspective on the question: Is it the apparent magnitude of the sacrifice that matters, or the motivation behind the sacrifice?
If the first, then how would we measure that magnitude? By the stature of the person? The number of people impacted? In that case, if we accept the Biblical portrayal of who Jesus was and what his ransom accomplished for all mankind, then his sacrifice would be the greatest possible.
OTOH, if motivation is the key factor, then the examples you cite are all equally as great as Jesus' sacrifice. Indeed, in that case, someone who gave up their life merely out of a feeling of obligation (perhaps, like a soldier who took point only because he knew he would be fragged if he didn't), and not because of true love for their fellows, would earn recognition, perhaps, but probably not honor.
IMHO, I don't think that the Biblical Jesus would consider his death to be greater than anyone else's.
Craig
edit to add: Jo 15:13 "Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." Pretty much levels out the field, eh?
Edited by - onacruse on 25 August 2002 21:55:22
i have a couple of questions that no one has been able to answer, as apparently, no one else at the hall has thought of it.
my question is regarding the command that jehovah gave adam regarding eating from the tree.
genesis 2:16 says "and jehovah god also laid this command upon the man: "from every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction.
I think Satan's statements in Gen 3 are an excellent example of saying the truth without telling the truth (if that makes any sense). E.g. the NIV comments on Gen 3:5..."your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God. The statement is only half true. Their eyes were opened, to be sure (see v. 7), but the result was quite different from what the serpent had promised." Similar to Satan's quoting Deut 8:3 and Psalm 91:11,12 when tempting Jesus (Matt 4); Satan twisted the real import of those Scriptures.
This also raises a related question: If Adam and Eve were deceived by this supernaturally devious intelligence, and subsequently manifested any repentance (as Gen 4:1 can be taken to indicate), do they have a hope of resurrection?
Craig
since leaving the jws reality can be hard to get used to these are somethings i found hard to adapt to:.
1) starting to celebrate celebrations like birthdays and christmas(i dont mean that christmas is a disadvantage its just getting used to the whole idea).
2) tell others im not a jw because all i used to do is try to convert them and now im telling them i was mislead and dont beleive it anymore.. 3) should i swear,lie,etc.
I wouldn't call this a disadvantage, but the way I feel now is summed up in my handle: ON-A-CRUSE. I have pulled my boat up out if the little backwater of WTS, and put it back down in the ocean of the wide wide world. I have no clear idea of where I'm going, or what I want to be in 2, 5, 10 years. But I've started the motor and begun the cruise.
Perhaps, in that respect, there is a disadvantage....in WTS, I always "knew" where I was going, what I was supposed to do, what I was going to be.
I'd much rather have the adventure of my new-found uncertainty.
Craig
i've always known that i am a bit obsessive, but lately i've been starting to worry about it.
when i was taught jw stuff, i really got into it.
i know that most women are supposed to be able to think and do a million things at once.
Hey! Just because the first thing I do when I wake up is come to this site, just because I'm in chat while cooking breakfast, lunch or dinner, just because I stay on board until I have only 3 hours of sleep before going to work, just because I feel like this is my one and only e-family......
DOESN'T MEAN I'M ADDICTED!!!
hehe
.
masturbation the hidden epidemic an article that you don't want to miss.. .
felix a
Mac, hehe, I'm just so proud of the variations of "onacruse" that have been handed to me (onacurse, omnicurse, onicorset, oinkacurse, onaclutz, onaunisexcruise, unibicruise, onadelusion, onatuse, onagig, onacrucifixion, onavergeofamentalbreakdown, onasolocruse, etc, etc) that I couldn't help but post as the most enduring of them all......onanism!
ROFL
<<deep in transcendental meditation, dispersing negative chat-deprivation energies, inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale>>
i went to a old train station today and looked around at the antiques and old tools of days gone by.
she kind of chuckled for a moment, and started to speak, "i am fine, i am just waiting for the train to arrive to take me to new town.
to which i was a little shocked, did this lady not know that the train had not passed by here in years.
Dragon, very sublime. Reminds me of Twilight Zone. I stood on that platform for 38 years. My relatives still do, but many are no longer on their tiptoes.
Pris, yep, that haunting fear. I must admit, on 9/11 I had a convulsion of anxiety/fear/apprehension.
Old habits die hard.
(xenawarrior and minimus, take note that i am a man of my word!
chronology: i am 50. was born and raised a jw, reg pub @ 6, baptized @ 10, reg pio (b4 hs graduation) and giving public talks @ 17, went to bethel @ 18, left bethel @ 20, married (1st time) @ 21, df'd @ 29, divorced @ 30, reinstated @ 30, remarried @ 32, df'd again @ 48, divorced again @ 49. one heck of a roller-coaster, eh?.
disfellowshipping: both my df'ings were for apostasy.
What a difference a word makes!
I didn't add "sincerely" to my last post, and so DipFarkel jumps all over it like a maggot on a rotten hot dog.
Edit: Doug, you make me feel so welcome here, sincerely!
LOL
ps: LEAVE PRISCA ALONE!!!!!
