Posts by freemindfade

Studies in the United States and Britain have shown that significant proportions of sexually experienced youth wished they had waited longer to have sex for the first time, or had some other negative feelings about having started too soon.

I guess what they meant to say is what the watchtower said.

The second

The top three most common regrets in women's top five lists of regret were in descending order: Lost virginity to 'wrong' partner - 24% of women cite this as a top five regret, in contrast to only 10% of men. Then came 'Cheated on past or present partner' - 23% of women put this as a top five regret in comparison to 18% of men. Third was - 'Relationship progressed ''too fast'' sexually' - 20% of women put this as a top five regret, while this only applied to 10% of men.

Your third article:

The median age of the girls was 17, while the age of their first experience of intercourse ranged from 11 to 17 years, with a median age of 14.

Dr. Skinner says if they have sex at a young age, before they are ready, it is reflected on as an unpleasant experience which they regret and this in itself is an undesirable outcome.

Your brilliant google searching has not produced a single article that reinforces the watchtards statement that "the MAJORITY of not waiting for MARRIAGE REGRET it.

And the watchtower article doesn't specify ANYTHING. Thats the point I am making.

take the stupidity to another discussion please, this one is not about premarital sex, thanks bbye

10

How to get JWs to talk about disfellowship?

by datto in

i have heard a lot about disfellowship from forums, blogs & youtube clips.

and all of them are real experiences from ex-jw.

however i have never physically met an ex-jw before.

freemindfade

Well then you are in a good position. You can speak to them, if one of us did it, its a thought crime.

There was recently a watchtower with some info on it, I would suggest reading that as well. the Study edition not public or simplified.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015287

Why Disfellowshipping Is a Loving Provision

“WHEN I listened to the announcement that my son had been disfellowshipped, my whole world seemed to come to an end,” recalls Julian. “He was my oldest child, and we were very close; we did lots of things together. He had always been an exemplary son, and then suddenly he began behaving in a way that was unacceptable. My wife wept repeatedly, and I did not know how to console her. We kept asking ourselves if we had somehow failed as parents.”

How can it be said that disfellowshipping a Christian is a loving provision if it causes so much pain? What reasons do the Scriptures give for taking such drastic measures? And what exactly leads to a person’s being disfellowshipped?

TWO FACTORS THAT LEAD TO DISFELLOWSHIPPING

Two factors—which must coincide—result in the disfellowshipping of one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. First, a baptized Witness commits a serious sin. Second, he does not repent of his sin.

Although Jehovah does not demand perfection from us, he does have a standard of holiness that he expects his servants to meet. For example, Jehovah insists that we avoid such serious sins as sexual immorality, idolatry, thievery, extortion, murder, and spiritism.—1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Rev. 21:8.

Would you not agree that Jehovah’s clean standards are reasonable and that they serve to protect us? Who does not prefer to live among peaceful, decent people who can be trusted? We find such an environment among our spiritual brothers and sisters, thanks to the promise we make at the time of our dedication to God to live in harmony with the guidelines found in his Word.

But what if a baptized Christian commits a serious sin because of human weakness? Faithful servants of Jehovah in the past made such mistakes, yet God did not reject them outright. King David is a prime example. David committed adultery and murder; yet, the prophet Nathan informed him: “Jehovah . . . forgives your sin.”—2 Sam. 12:13.

God pardoned David’s sin because of David’s sincere repentance. (Ps. 32:1-5) Likewise, a servant of Jehovah today will be disfellowshipped only if he is unrepentant or continues to practice what is bad. (Acts 3:19; 26:20) If genuine repentance is not manifest to the elders who serve on a judicial committee, they must disfellowship the person.

At first, we may feel that the decision to disfellowship the wrongdoer is drastic or even unkind, especially if we have close ties to that person. Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Word gives us sound reasons for believing that such a decision is a loving one.

DISFELLOWSHIPPING CAN BENEFIT EVERYONE CONCERNED

Jesus pointed out that “wisdom is proved righteous by its results.” (Matt. 11:19, ftn.) A wise decision to disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer produces righteous results. Consider these three:

Disfellowshipping wrongdoers honors Jehovah’s name. Since we bear the name of Jehovah, our behavior inevitably reflects on his name. (Isa. 43:10) Just as a son’s conduct can bring either honor or reproach on his parents, so people’s feelings toward Jehovah will depend to some extent on the good or bad example they observe in his name people. God’s good name is upheld if the people who bear that name make Jehovah’s moral standard their own. The situation was somewhat similar in Ezekiel’s time when people of the nations closely associated the name of Jehovah with the Jews.—Ezek. 36:19-23.

We would bring reproach on God’s holy name if we practiced immorality. The apostle Peter counseled Christians: “As obedient children, stop being molded by the desires you formerly had in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all your conduct, for it is written: ‘You must be holy, because I am holy.’” (1 Pet. 1:14-16) Clean, holy conduct brings honor to God’s name.

If one of Jehovah’s Witnesses practices what is bad, however, it is likely that friends and acquaintances will become aware of this. The disfellowshipping act shows that Jehovah has a clean people who adhere to Scriptural guidelines in order to maintain that holiness. A stranger once came to a meeting at a Kingdom Hall in Switzerland and said that he wanted to become a member of the congregation. His sister had been disfellowshipped for immorality. He said that he wanted to join an organization that “does not tolerate bad conduct.”

Disfellowshipping protects the clean, Christian congregation. The apostle Paul warned the Corinthians of the danger of allowing willful sinners to remain in their midst. He compared the bad influence of such ones to that of leaven that causes a whole lump of dough to rise. “A little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough,” he noted. He then counseled them: “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”—1 Cor. 5:6, 11-13.

Apparently, “the wicked person” mentioned by Paul blatantly practiced immorality. And other congregation members had even begun to justify his conduct. (1 Cor. 5:1, 2) If such a gross sin had been condoned, other Christians might have felt inclined to follow the immoral customs of the licentious city in which they lived. Overlooking willful sins encourages a lax attitude toward divine standards. (Eccl. 8:11) Furthermore, unrepentant sinners could become “rocks hidden below water” and shipwreck the faith of others in the congregation.—Jude 4, 12.

Disfellowshipping may bring the wrongdoer to his senses. Jesus once spoke of a young man who left his father’s home and squandered his inheritance on a life of debauchery. The prodigal son learned the hard way that life outside his father’s home was empty and heartless. The son finally came to his senses, repented, and took the initiative to return to his family. (Luke 15:11-24) Jesus’ description of the loving father who rejoiced at his son’s change of heart helps us understand Jehovah’s feelings. “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living,” he assures us.—Ezek. 33:11.

Likewise, disfellowshipped ones who are no longer members of the Christian congregation—their spiritual family—may come to realize what they have lost. The bitter fruits of their sinful course, together with the memories of happier days when they enjoyed a good relationship with Jehovah and his people, could bring them to their senses.

Love and firmness are needed to produce the desired result. “Should the righteous one strike me, it would be an act of loyal love,” said the psalmist David, and “should he reprove me, it would be like oil on my head.” (Ps. 141:5) To illustrate: Imagine a hiker who succumbs to exhaustion on a cold winter day. He begins to suffer from hypothermia, and he feels drowsy. If he falls asleep in the snow, he will die. While waiting for a rescue party, his companion occasionally slaps him in the face to keep him awake. The slap may sting, but it could well save his life. Similarly, David recognized that a righteous person might need to give him painful correction for his own good.

In many cases, disfellowshipping provides the discipline the erring one needs. After some ten years, Julian’s son, mentioned at the outset, cleaned up his life, returned to the congregation, and now serves as an elder. “Being disfellowshipped brought me face-to-face with the consequences of my lifestyle,” he admits. “I needed that sort of discipline.”—Heb. 12:7-11.

THE LOVING WAY TO DEAL WITH DISFELLOWSHIPPED ONES

True, disfellowshipping is a spiritual tragedy, but the tragedy need not become an unmitigated disaster. All of us play a role in making sure that the disfellowshipping serves its purpose.

Two elders meet with a disfellowshipped woman

Efforts are made to help repentant ones return to Jehovah

Elders who have the sad task of communicating a disfellowshipping decision strive to reflect Jehovah’s love. When informing the person of their decision, they kindly and clearly explain the steps he needs to take to be reinstated in the congregation. For the sake of reminding disfellowshipped ones of how they can return to Jehovah, elders may periodically visit those who have given some evidence of changing their ways.*

Family members can show love for the congregation and the erring one by respecting the disfellowshipping decision. “He was still my son,” explains Julian, “but his lifestyle had put up a barrier between us.”

All in the congregation can show principled love by avoiding contact and conversation with the disfellowshipped person. (1 Cor. 5:11; 2 John 10, 11) They thus reinforce the discipline that Jehovah has given him through the elders. Furthermore, they can give extra love and support to the family of the disfellowshipped one, who suffer considerably and who should not be made to feel that they too are excluded from association with fellow believers.—Rom. 12:13, 15.

“Disfellowshipping is an arrangement that we need, one that helps us live according to Jehovah’s standards,” Julian concludes. “In the long run, despite the pain, it brings good results. Had I been tolerant of my son’s bad conduct, he would never have recovered.”

10

How to get JWs to talk about disfellowship?

by datto in

i have heard a lot about disfellowship from forums, blogs & youtube clips.

and all of them are real experiences from ex-jw.

however i have never physically met an ex-jw before.

freemindfade

Go read the jw.borg FAQ do witnesses shun former members. This will give you some insight into how the twisted mind of a jw works.

First of all the FAQ is clearly the result of the disfellowshipping criticism, however, the response is generally aimed at people who just sort of stop going to meetings and don't leave, or get in some kind of trouble. Its extremely deceptive through subtle manipulation.

They will tell you how its not bad, its loving, they will never call it what it is, shunning! To reference wayward pines when they murder someone for being a free thinker/trouble maker, they don't call it murder, its a "reckoning". Scientology, other cults, they all have their terminology that makes it palatable. We don't shun, we disfellowship. It has a different name, and in their minds the definition is not sadistic its love.

Its a sensitive subject so be careful. Jws have only been shunning about half their existence, something most modern dubs don't even know.

69

Thinking of Going Full Disclosure With Wife. Sorta

by freemindfade in

jw
friends

soliciting any and all opinions.

as some of you may know, wife is full in pioneer.

my fade has gone from us fighting.

freemindfade

Just to fill everyone in, my waking up really began I would say about 3 years ago now. I didn't look into TTATT or website or anything. There was a great deal that just always bothered me about the bible.

When we would do our new family worship which I was horrible at, whether it be bible reading or the like, I would always stop and have hardcore questions. I found out much on my own before things like jwfacts and this site blew the lid off. And I would bring it up "how does this make sense" "archeology says different" etc. Family worship became family argument night. I didn't know anything about CD yet, and was just asking honest questions. But her reaction disgusted me, I suddenly felt there was something wrong if this is what happened when you questioned things.

So as I faded the fights lessoned. Occasionally wed get into it. But when my family shunned me, she really came to my side and my defense. But also blamed them and not the religion. So this has been unfolding for years. She knows some of the things I am drawn to, evolution and so on. So she is not totally ignorant to my "beliefs" but she doesn't know that I have in fact come to the conclusion its all Bull Shit.

Daniel Gender's story is probably the best delivery of explanation of exit I have read, the most palatable, and sincere. Very rational and soft, but also conclusive. That may be its best power, it quietly closes all the doors. That is what I would like to do with her.

69

Thinking of Going Full Disclosure With Wife. Sorta

by freemindfade in

jw
friends

soliciting any and all opinions.

as some of you may know, wife is full in pioneer.

my fade has gone from us fighting.

freemindfade

DOC I have never heard anyone outside of the org guilty for loosing their virginity. Perhaps they weren't crazy about who to, but there are a lot of people out there who don't attach sex with requiring marriage. But I digress my who point was how is that statement different than what trump said when they have provided no source for the statement?

69

Thinking of Going Full Disclosure With Wife. Sorta

by freemindfade in

jw
friends

soliciting any and all opinions.

as some of you may know, wife is full in pioneer.

my fade has gone from us fighting.

freemindfade

Also for all who haven't read it, i highly recommend reading Daniel Genser's story.

This would be my approach, sort of a summary. Not overloaded with TTATT and spite against the org, just some facts, and very pragmatic delivery of "I am looking for the truth in the witnesses, its not there" (event hough I have been that way for some time.)

69

Thinking of Going Full Disclosure With Wife. Sorta

by freemindfade in

jw
friends

soliciting any and all opinions.

as some of you may know, wife is full in pioneer.

my fade has gone from us fighting.

freemindfade

Bonsai

I like that approach, for my own situation I think I need to try something less emotionally charged.

Finkelstein

My own journey of truth as far as the witnesses goes has already ended some time ago. Its me freemind, I full well know the cult nonesense, just for peace sake have to filter my thoughts with the wife, i am speaking of filling her in fully that it is my conclusion its lies and such to me, which it has been for sometime, but she doesn't know that.

dubstepped

I am already hopeless she will wake up, but when I do this I don't want to do it in a way it seems I am trying to wake her up. i acknowledge some people don't want to leave the vail of comforting lies, even if in their gut they feel something is wrong.

cappytan

While she tolerates my current situation, when I try to discuss these things she tries to "pioneer". To give an example, in the watchtower yesterday there was a non-sourced idiotic statement by the watchtower. About "the majority of people who lost their virginity". I circled it and wrote next to it "Source"?. She looked at me like I was crazy and said "thats true". I tried to stay cool and said even if it were, it should not be stated in something like this in writing with a source to back up the claim. (of course I know that is not true, but I know she will turn it into me advocating premarital sex, which is not my issue here). I could see she wasn't getting it. And said the people they talked to must have said that, and she knows its gotta be true. So she like many of us, even die hard witnesses that I have joked with, have had a good laugh at the atrocious things Donald Trump said about Mexicans. I told her, this falls into the same category, a blanket statement presented as fact with no truth to back it up. I was trying to make the case not for the dogma of premarital sex, but the image of making idiotic statements with nothing to back them up. She full on chooses to accept it because the watchtower said it, no other reason.

My point is I am not interested in waking her. I still try of course because my human nature forces me to point out things like the above, but when I tell her I don't believe the witnesses, I don't believe in YHWH, and I don't believe the bible, is for nothing other than to be fully honest with her.

I wonder what it would be like for her to see me be honest then say i am still going to go to the meetings with you and have a minimal amount of interaction with the cult to maintain friendships. The standard witness response is just go then, leave. But when I have to show that I can't leave because its a god damned cult, maybe that will eat away at her.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the advice

10

YHWH Demoted from Desert God, to be Known as the Tennis God Now!

by freemindfade in

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/serena-williams-secret-weapon-jehovah-god_55a06ed9e4b0ecec71bc445b.

serena williams' secret weapon: 'jehovah god'.

freemindfade

_Morpheus, its so nice being a witness and not having to think

something good happened... YHWH!

Something bad happened... Satan!

So easy